We live in the midwest. My youngest in only applying to schools in the south. My eldest goes to any Ivy. Probably the most Jew-friendly of the bunch but that isn’t saying much. He absolutely cannot wear his identity on his sleeve.
I was talking to a friend about his Jewish private school in the NE. That school use to send 10+ kids a year to Columbia. The last two years it’s been zero.
I suppose we all look at “tolerance” through our individual lenses and I understand the view of those concerned about access to health. But right now, for my people, the south is incredibly welcoming.
Ugh. Yeah, that is really bad. We have public school pride day here (district-wide). There is a longstanding city committee for LGBTQ affairs (as do neighboring communities). Having folks march in a town event would obviously be a non-issue. The library has lots of events for Pride Month.
There are no complaints or protests I have seen. If there are, it is no more than an email to somebody.
I live in the deep South, Louisiana. And I think we are in a different category from NC, which is the most mentioned Southern state in this thread. I would not recommend moving to Louisiana except for New Orleans, which is amazing and a wonderful city (and obviously very LGBTQ+ friendly). Anything outside Nola I would stay clear off.
I am not from here and I don’t live in Nola. In my very normal middle class suburb among teens “gay” is still used as a slur. Some high schools have LGBTQ+ groups but not all. And in our local public HS Fellowship of Christian Athletes is the biggest club. Prayers that end in “in Jesus name, Amen” are customary at the start of public school events.
Now I probably confirmed some stereotypes, but it is what it is…..
Well, I don’t know where that is but I definitely know where it’s not (my area of NC). My lesbian daughter recently moved from school in VA to Durham to live with her girlfriend and she’s very happy to be back home.
My daughter went to school in Florida (smaller, private) and there were two gay women on her sports team (out of ~20) and a know a third later (after dating males in college) partnered with a woman (and had moved to an even smaller college town in rural GA). The first was from NJ (I think) and her parents bought a house for her to live in in Florida and I don’t remember if she remained in Florida. The second was from Minn and I think moved to NY/NJ after graduation. The third, who was the one who moved to GA, was originally from the same area of FL we lived in (they went to rival high schools, and had played on the same club team)
I don’t think it made any difference to any of the kids on the team and I don’t think I would have known their preferences (or those of anyone on the team) if I hadn’t been introduced to their partners or if daughter hadn’t been invited to weddings. The school was smaller so I don’t think there were a lot of big LGBT groups or any anti groups. It seemed to me everyone at the school just did their own thing. I do think if the students wanted more of a open community or activities for Pride day, they would have gone to Miami or Orlando, but students did that for all kinds of reasons like pro sports, shopping, better air flights, concerts, bars…
People move to another area of the country for college for a lot of different reasons like:
they’re tired of living in their home state and want to try something new for 4 yr
they want to live farther away from their parents and going ‘away’ to college is a great way to do that
there’s something they’re tired of in their home state and they want something different
they want to make a fresh start elsewhere with people who don’t know them as the person from XYZ High School
the OOS college has a great program for their major
there’s something unique about the OOS college that they feel none of the nearby colleges do very well
it’s affordable
they want different weather than their home state
they really want to play Sport X in college and that’s where they got recruited to play
they really want to participate in the culture of ___ (sport, extracurricular, club, etc.) at an OOS college
they really want to live near the mountains, beach, in a city, in a small town, etc., etc. and didn’t like any of the in-state/nearby options
You get the idea.
Why is it a big deal that some students want to live in southern states for college? I’m not asking to be sarcastic. It’s an honest question.
Let’s say that YOUR kid does NOT want to move south for college. Ok, that’s great! Your kid should do what works best for he/she/them given your specific family’s situation and your kid’s specific needs.
Somebody else’s kid might choose to move south for college. That’s a different flavor of ice cream than what you/your kid would choose. Why is that a problem? For individuals who are offended by it, why is it offensive?
My D26’s BFF at school got a Questbridge scholarship to attend Penn next year. Amazing opportunity for her. MY kid would HATE going to Penn. I’m glad that my kid doesn’t want to go to Penn; it would be a bad fit for her. However, my & my kid’s opinions of whether or not Penn is a good fit for D26 are irrelevant because Penn was never in the realm of “apply here” anyway.
It wasn’t D26’s flavor of ice cream.
But D26’s BFF is thrilled, her family is thrilled and we are thrilled for them.
So let’s say that because “more kids are moving south for college,” maybe this results in fewer students applying to colleges in the northern half of the US. Guess what? This should be good news for YOU/YOUR kid if you want to attend college in a northern state. Fewer apps might = slightly less competition = MAYBE slightly easier to get admitted?
It’s not a big deal on an individual level. The point of this thread is to discuss whether there may be a migration taking place. Human migrations are a big deal. There are political, social and economic consequences.
People move for various types of reasons. There’s 50 states to choose from, so there’s a lot of variety out there and there’s something out there for everybody.
Sometimes, when people are young, they want to try out something new. If they don’t like it very much, well, then after college graduation, they’ll move somewhere else. Or if they REALLY don’t like it, they’ll transfer to another college in another area.
1 of D24’s classmates is black/African American. Is attending UAH, majoring in engineering. Some got upset over this…“But he’s a black male going to college in the south! How can this be? Why would he leave AZ? Racism! but but but…”
He chose the school because of: (a) cost; (b) extended family in the state; (c) UAH coop programs; and (d) job opportunities for internships & post-college employment.
There’s a lot of reasons why OTHER people would choose to not go to college in Alabama. None of those reasons were ones that resulted in him ruling out UAH.
My D24 is attending college in TX. Some were upset by this for various reasons. Her reasons for picking the school were solid and were the right reasons for her. She made the right choice in our family’s opinion. Some will still be upset by that. There’s nothing I can do about that.
If you don’t like State X, Y, or Z, don’t live there and don’t send your kid to college there. Add a qualifier like “If you go to college in ’ list of specific states,’ then I’m not paying for it.”
For example, let’s say your kid is targeting <10% admission rate schools and wants to apply to Rice, which is in Houston. But you don’t want to pay for your kid to attend college in TX. That’s fine. Then tell the kid that you won’t pay for the cost for them to attend there.
Or you don’t want your kid attending more than X # of miles away from home. You can have a family rule like that, too.
Or maybe your criterion is something like “College has to have X score on the Campus Pride index” or “College must have a Hillel group on campus” or “College must have sufficient resources for my severely learning disabled child.” That could rule out some colleges in the south…OR the north. It all depends.
Or maybe the growth is from New England kids who have decided to forego expensive private schools for a more affordable state school.
The article doesnt break out the demographics.
Living in New England, it seems that historically, people viewed private schools as better whereas in the south, many of the top schools are the state flagship.
Arizona (our home state) is the best, why would you/your kid ever want to leave?
everybody in TX is racist
everybody in TX carries a gun and you could die. (um, AZ has similar gun carry laws)
I don’t agree w/TX abortion laws and if you/your kid goes to college in TX, that means you support their abortion laws so now I don’t like you anymore because I don’t like your decision (abortion laws were not a factor in the decision)
I don’t agree w/how TX handles trans issues from a state government standpoint and if you/your kid goes to college there, that means that you support that and I don’t like you anymore because I don’t like your decision
TX is a red state and I don’t like red states and because you/your kid is going to college in a red state, I don’t like you either
you/your kid picking a school based on the weather is a stupid reason and I don’t like it
ASU is the best school in the country and you/your kid is foolish for not attending there
Perhaps you need a different friend group. Zero people commented on S23 and 225’s choice of schools other than to say “Congratulations!” or “Everyone I know who’s attended has been really happy there!” or other similar, happy messages.
Same. As was discussed upthread, most (all?) of the cities in NC are blue and we’ve had a Dem governor for quite some time. The perception that someone’s kid will be indoctrinated to the left just by virtue of attending a college here or elsewhere in the South is funny. UNC, for instance, a popular choice for northerners coming South for college, leans VERY liberal (IMO - my D went there). Right now, it seems like the bigger threat on college campuses is to Jewish students than LGBTQ+++ yet many Jewish students are still applying to colleges where hate and violence against them has taken place.
As far as the migration issue goes, I believe the steady stream of kids moving South for college continues, with families following. I have almost 8 years between my girls and when my oldest applied as an OOS for UGA, she was easily admitted EA. When my youngest applied, 8 years later, with significantly higher all-around stats and test scores, she was deferred in EA and eventually denied. The snapshot from her high school shows a yearly increase in the number of kids going even deeper South, to Auburn, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi and Texas.
For every kid who has political or social justice reasons for choosing a college, there’s another kid who wants a place where they can adjust socially - and for many, applying to colleges with popular sports programs, Greek life and huge school spirit, checks that box. Nothing wrong with either choice.
I just looked at the “futures” sites on Instagram for a bunch of high performing public and private schools in the Atlanta metro area and it looks like folks headed to small liberal arts colleges in the Northeast is on the upswing compared to when my kids were applying. Yes, folks are headed south and folks are headed north. And east and west.
Where I am, high school snapshots for college destinations show few heading southeast. Most of those destinations are “prestige” targets (e.g. UT Austin, Rice, Duke, Georgia Tech). There appears to be no appeal to any school in the states of Alabama, Mississippi, or South Carolina, or any non-Tulane school in Louisiana.
YMMV, I guess. Sweetgum posted above that her LGBTQ+ children have had a positive experience. The original point being that the direct experiences of those who live here versus the opinions of those who never have, might differ. As mentioned above - there are 50 states and we are all free (as of now) to choose the one that best suits us.
Makes sense since different parts of the country will surely have different targets. Aiming for the elites and being able to write the tuition check are two very different things, which may be the driving factor on which southern colleges are targeted.
First, let me say that I am wholeheartedly happy that Sweetgum’s kids have had a positive experience in NC.
That said, whether or not a state is hostile to certain groups of kids isn’t entirely subjective, regardless of the anecdotal experiences of some of its residents. It’s a fact that the NC Legislature is openly hostile to people who aren’t straight, white Christian men. I sat in the gallery when they overrode the Governor’s veto of the Don’t Say Gay bill, and I witnessed legislators dismissing the lived experiences of gay and trans kids as “exaggerations".” I have heard people testify with their full chests that children are the property of their parents and that they’d never let the possibility trans child might do themselves harm sway them from their determination to pass laws forcing schools to out Trans kids and denying them life-saving care. And I’ve personally stood up and begged our lawmakers not to outlaw teachers from talking frankly about our country’s racial history.
Regardless of any single person’s experience, NC has passed and continues to pass laws and policies that make our state a worse place for LGBTQIA+ people to live, as well as college students (stripping polling places from college campuses) and Black people (gerrymandering, racially-specific voter ID laws). That’s simply a fact.
Does that mean I think kids shouldn’t go to school here, or that they’re wrong if they do? Of course not! College decisions are personal and multifaceted. To some families/kids, the benefits of going to school here outweigh any negatives. For others, it doesn’t.
And to be very transparent, my nonbinary child ended up at a private school in Ohio. We (wrongly, as it happens) thought that the fact that their school was private would protect them from the excesses of a legislature easily as hostile as the one at home. If we had it to do over again, I’d at least have made sure they were considering the legislature when they made their decision.
Of course kids go away to other parts of the country for college. They always have and they always will. It’s pretty hard to extrapolate too much from the futures pages. Sure, if say Pace or Westminster have 5 or 6 kids heading to Northern LACs that’s probably a significant uptick from prior years. But is there really some huge increase in Atlanta area kids heading to the Northeast or is there a shift to applying to LACs rather than Ivy League schools? The only kids who have posted their decisions are the ones who applied early decision/ early action. At some (most?) schools a large portion of kids never post on the Instagram pages. At our school only about a third of the students do. I’m not seeing much of a difference in the number of early acceptances at the usual Southern favorites: Wake Forest, UVA, Duke, Vanderbilt.
A few years ago, Boston College was a hot school with Atlanta private school kids, a couple of years later it was CU Boulder. Our small Atlanta area private school always has a handful of kids going to Northern LACs. The year ahead of my son there were 2 headed to Amherst, one to Swarthmore and one to Bowdoin. My son’s year (2022) there was one Vassar, a couple of Colgate, one Holy Cross and one Bucknell. Without exception, they all had parents from the Northeast. Perhaps there is a correlation to the influx of Northerners to the Atlanta area during the pandemic? Or maybe people in Atlanta are finally discovering all the great small colleges in the Northeast - which I hope is the case. Just how many students are you seeing heading to these schools?
The other thing I will add is that for the Jewish school in my area as well as kids from our synagogue there appears to be a clear shift away from the Ivy League (none on the futures pages for 2023 to 2025) with more kids going to Wash U and Duke. Indiana, Elon, Wisconsin, Ohio State and Syracuse are gaining popularity and we are seeing an uptick in both kids staying in state or heading to other Southern publics that historically have not attracted many Jewish students. (Auburn, Clemson). Other than Oberlin, I haven’t seen many opting for LACs.
