Are Kids Well Served by Parents Knowing Too Much

CC_Admin · October 5, 2005, 7:33am

Sometimes I feel downright negligent reading these boards(or talking with some parents in our community). I never go to any of the web-sites where I can learn about my child without having to ask them(friendster, live journal, whatever- I don’t even know the names of them). I never checked websites that allowed me to monitor my kids grades, or even their school attendance. And, for my kids who are away at school I don’t have daily email, IM or even SMS contact. I initiate a phone call once per week, occasionally more. Son #1 did not initiate a single phone call last year. The same son could not be bothered to drop a pre-addressed, stamped and written postcard in a mail slot during summer programs, so this is just his MO…I also don’t pour over the web sites of the schools the kids attend. I check the newspapers occasionally on line, and read what is mailed to me, but that is about it. We picked good schools, I am done researching…

I am not a disinterested parent by any means. I don’t think the obstacles are technical or time issues. I guess I am really not that interested in knowing what my kids don’t want to tell me themselves. I don’t like, in general, the idea of people having access to so much information about one another without actually having personal contact. I don’t think email or most of the other modern communication tools are adequate replacements for ‘real’ contact.

The bigger issue, though, is are my kids ill-served by my relative passivity about all this? Are they losing out because I am not checking all the sites? (they check some of them, I am sure- facebook is something they like to use)
I have absolutely no interest in spying on them, in gaining information surreptitiously. Because their friends’ parents are my friends I sometimes gather indirect ‘data points’, but usually about relatively inconsequential things(what time the train is leaving…, etc).

So what do you all think. Are our kids better off because we can access information about their lives with so much more facility, or are we overly intrusive if we gather information about them without their knowledge?

wbow · October 5, 2005, 7:59am

i have two boys. i try to stay out of their personal lives as much as possible. it’s not that i don’t care, because i really do, but i don’t feel it’s my place to know everything. my oldest is a senior in college and i can’t even tell you his course load or schedule. up until last week i didn’t know there had been a change in the girlfriend status, but that’s ok, because it’s not my business. my youngest is in high school, and i ask him how things are going and i ask him if his grades are ok and that’s about it. i can’t believe some of the things other parents know about their kids (and sometimes my kids, too) but i guess that’s important to them.

i’ve tried to emphasize making good choices and treating people kindly from the time my kids were old enough to talk. i am not going to be my kids best friend. that is not my job. but we love each other very much and respect each other enough to give each other some privacy.

i came to this website to ask a few financial aid questions, and after a while, i questioned myself as well. i think being a parent involves walking that fine line between parent and friend–i favor staying on the side of parent. i expect great behavior from my kids–and for the most part, i think they deliver. but it is not my place to know everything–and it’s not their responsibility to tell me everything either.

cangel · October 5, 2005, 8:32am

I think there is a difference in livejournal, facebook, etc and reading the college website or college newspaper’s website.
I’m very concerned about the environment DD is in, and how well she is adjusting, at least these first few months - I consider the college newspaper as “background” info. My husband avidly follows the abysmal football team, for similar reasons. I expect that, as the months and years go on, the need for “background” info will decrease. I’m not sure if I will stop reading hte paper, we have a lot invested in this.

I do feel reading livejournal entries etc, of a college student who is doing well - no signs of depression or other serious problems - is invasive of their privacy. My DD and I IM almost daily, but she is not on my buddylist, I do not initiate the conversations, I think that is an important distinction in their developing independence. If she had had bouts of depression, an eating disorder, other serious mental health issues, I would probably be more “invasive”, because the school may not adequately monitor her condition, and, I’m sorry, my not quite 18 year old freshman is not an adult yet.

I respectfully disagree with Wbow on one point - I do hope to be my child’s, my adult child’s, friend. I think that is one of the goals of childrearing - to produce a person, that you, that anyone, would enjoy being friends with. I think that is different from trying to be your child’s best friend when they are at home - that doesn’t work.

wbow · October 5, 2005, 8:43am

i did not mean that i don’t want to be my adult child’s friend. that would be wonderful! however, i see too many parents who won’t tell their children no because they want to be “friends.”

mattmom · October 5, 2005, 8:53am

Robyrm, it sounds to me as though your degree of contact works very well for you and your children, and your own family’s comfort level is what matters. It certainly deoes not sound in the least as though your kids are being shortchanged.

I don’t think going on livejournal or similar Web sites that would give a parent access to the specifics of everyday life of college-age children is a good idea, if only because it may raise more questions than it answers (privacy issues aside).

It seems as though I pretty much share Cangel’s approach. My husband and I do subscribe to our daughter’s college newspaper and we also look at the college Web site for news of the school in general, including the athletic teams. We feel that it is in a way part of our extended community (and vice versa), and we like to know what’s going on in our various worlds. We generally don’t initiate phone calls to D but do send e-mails to chat, inform, or say hi. As I mentioned in response to an earlier thread on a slightly different subject, I do not have D on my buddy list; she occasionally IMs me, usually either to say a very quick hello or because she needs something. She calls several times a week, usually when walking to or from class. (We visited this past weekend, and it was interesting to see how many of the kids were talking on their cellphones while walking around campus. It appears that if you aren’t walking with at least one other person you need to be talking to someone on the phone to avoid momentary isolation,)

berurah · October 5, 2005, 9:53am

Roby~

I do not believe that your children are “ill-served” AT ALL by your parenting “technique”! To the contrary, you are demonstrating a trusting relationship with them by allowing them to have their privacy and respecting the boundaries that have been set by both of you in the relationship.

I am the same way with my own children, though I really have no choice. None of them keeps an online journal (they think it’s dumb and dangerous) or puts personal information “out there” for others to gather at will. They tell me what they need/want for me to know, and the rest remains private. I am fine with that. I trust each of them completely because they have given me every reason to. If however, a question arose as to whether they were participating in something illegal, dangerous, or in some way not constructive, I’d exhaust all avenues of “spying”, except at that point, I’d call it “supervision” :).

My son has not been overly communicative since he’s left for school. He typically calls once a week and I will email him about three times a week, most often with news of home and a picture or two. I don’t think it’s excessive, and I don’t think he does either.

With regard to the journals…I have read and continue to read some of the public journals, particularly those of some of my kids’ acquaintances. IMHO, they are PUBLIC and therefore, I am not doing this surreptitiously. There are ways to protect online journals from public viewing, but if the journals are NOT protected, they can be (and ARE) accessed by anyone and everyone. My children understand this COMPLETELY. That is just one reason why none of them keeps one.

One of my daughter’s oldest friends began posting disturbing suicidal poetry and references to anorexia. She is also obsessed with violent movies. She had always been an “unusual” child (we’ve known her since kindergarten), and yes, I was worried about her. Another girl that my daughter knew posted an extensive entry (with racy pictures) about a drunken brawl that she and some friends had (15 and 16 year-olds).

Rightly or wrongly, these things help me to guide my children with regard to friends. We parents are all aware of the “Eddy Haskell” syndrome, the child that comes across one way to parents and teachers and a completely different way when surrounded by only friends. My kids know several people like this, as I’m sure all of our kids do.

I feel NO guilt whatsoever in using whatever information is publically available to protect my children. I am old fashioned, proudly so, and I don’t believe that kids younger than 18 have an absolute right to total privacy. They are adults-in-training, and they still need the guidance of responsible parents. That said, my children have EARNED my trust, and I give it to them freely.

Many may disagree with me…that’s totally fine with me and that is their right to do so. My methods seem to be working so far, and if they ever should fail me, I would definitely reevaluate them. ~berurah

cangel · October 5, 2005, 10:04am

Wbow, I thought you might mean “live at home” kids ;).

Robyrm, as was discussed before - boys and girls are different, in general, I think girls want more interaction than boys.

berurah · October 5, 2005, 10:11am

wbow~

I am in total agreement with you. The one girl I mentioned who was writing suicidal poetry and making references to anorexia has a mom who is absolutely TERRIFIED of her. The mom has never set one limit with this girl and has never acted as a parent…only a friend. The results have been devastating. ~berurah

CC_Admin · October 5, 2005, 10:27am

I think this is an interesting observation from Mattmom:

“It appears that if you aren’t walking with at least one other person you need to be talking to someone on the phone to avoid momentary isolation”

Are we too overconnected, too communicative, too needing of contact? Are kids today unable to take pleasure and see value in momentary isolation? A more general issue than that of the degree of parental involvement.

I know my boys don’t feel they have to handle serious or compelling issues alone. As they have learned to be responsible for themselves, and for their friends, we have always been definitive with them about when it was ‘call in the adult’ time, and I feel confident they know when this is. In the absence of this, however, I want them to feel that the momentary isolation is healthful- that time to self reflect and ponder is a good thing, and that mom doesn’t need to know about their daily goings on…

As for knowing what is going on the campuses themselves, last year my older son sent 2 notable pieces- one about an episode of anti-semitism, the other about the basketball schedule on ESPN…and I am sure he will continue to do so this year. There are serious issues on all college campuses, and a periodic read of the newspapers provides information on this, I find. And, as for the sports teams, my heart truly only belongs to the Red Sox…

I should say that we live, in spite of all the electronic contact, in relative isolation. We are accustomed to not being ‘in on things’ in a way that only the most isolated American would appreciate. I do think this modulates the need for input and comfort with distance to an extent.

And, Cangel, I suspect you are very right about the boy/girl contact issue. My friends with daughters definitely are hearing more/calling more…though I am not sure who wants it more- the moms or the daughters!

pennypac · October 5, 2005, 10:34am

Robyrm, I couldn’t agree with you more–even as far as the Red Sox are concerned.

berurah · October 5, 2005, 10:37am

A very interesting question, roby. My son was the “last on the block” to get a cell phone. He didn’t have one until after he graduated (!) because he didn’t WANT one lol. I think he LIKES the personal time to reflect. I think he’s still a bit regretful about getting one–now everyone can “find” him! lol ~b.

emeraldkity4 · October 5, 2005, 10:39am

I do read the livejournals of both my daughters schools- they are public journals and they both know I read them.
I also call my daughter about once a week, but since I don’t know her schedule I don’t often catch her and sometimes it takes her another week to call me back.
I would prefer more contact- returning my email questions that I post once a month or so- would be helpful, since when she calls bimonthly I don’t always remember what I wanted to ask her, and since she is running to and from the connection isn’t that great anyway.
She calls her sister more regularly however, so at least we know she is alive :)

MomofWildChild · October 5, 2005, 11:25am

I am on the other side of this. My Wild Child was a struggling teen a few years ago, and I guess I developed into a complete invader of privacy. I uncovered some unbelievable lapses in supervision at the boarding school he was attending at the time. Now, while I don’t need to invade privacy as much, if something is posted publicly on the internet, I am THERE! I have learned so much helpful information that has guided my discussions with my kids.
For reasons unique to our family, D went to boarding school as a junior and Wild Child as a freshman. I wanted to maintain close contact and be as involved as possible in their high school lives, while still allowing them their independence. 
I do IM with both of my kids (D a college junior and Wild Child hs senior)- this is a big way we keep in touch. 
My sister has a D (my niece) who won’t share any information. My sister’s sanity depends on reading the online journals of her friends and her D.
I am addicted to my communication devices in a way that is not particularly healthy. A Blackberry was essential to my last couple of jobs, and I became dependent on instant email access for business and personal matters. My cell phone is with me at all times. If I travel out of range, I go into withdrawal. This is not a good thing with our society today. However, the benefit is that I had flexibility to be away from the office and still handle things. 
I think every family and every person is different. I am one extreme and I get a lot of criticism for it.

SBmom · October 5, 2005, 11:45am

I must be a voyeur snoop because I read all that stuff, plus I follow her team on line.

However, My D also tells me about her life. I feel pretty comfortable because I will read about some slightly scandalous party being thrown on LJ and then, voila, she tells me about it.

I agree completely that good parenting advice can be informed by some selective net surfing. She showed me a facebook of a guy she had a crush on and I discussed a few of his comments (snooty, bossy) through adult eyes. I didn’t say don’t date him I just said, Hmmmm-- make sure that one is a joke and not code for his real self.

Just occasionally mentioning that ANYONE can see this public stuff is a decent deterrent to her ever putting wild or embarrassing info on line.

I am a little bit confused about how to snoop on myspace so have not done that one. Maybe MOWC can PM me a tutorial!!

I trust my D to make basically good choices and come to me if she’s in hot water. I like knowing what is going on on her campus and when the team wins.

Like Roby’s S, D barely initiates calling and I call about 1x a week.

filmxoxo17 · October 5, 2005, 11:58am

“Are we too overconnected, too communicative, too needing of contact? Are kids today unable to take pleasure and see value in momentary isolation?”

I also feel the need to respond to this, even though I am so not a parent. I would have to agree with others who have said that indeed, parents today are far too overconnected. It seems to be mostly an American phenomenon, but it happens everywhere. Parents nowadays expect to be completely involved in every facet of their child’s life, much unlike the role their parents had in their lives. From the start they’ve ushered kids from soccer to ballet to arts and crafts, talking about eachothers’ feelings all the way. These parents don’t think the umbilical cord should be cut when college comes along, and if their child disagrees, they still find other ways of monitoring and involving themselves, such as through snooping through online journals. Several parents have defended their rights to read these journals because they are public domain. I know you guys have your reasons, but you know that your child or child’s friend doesn’t want you to read it (in most cases) but you do it anyway. Even though I know why some parents would want to do this, I still think that its ultimately a bad idea. I dunno, this generation of parents seems to have issues with letting go, and by that, I mean, they dont. Children need a life apart from their parents, and I find that it seems like some parents on this board (and in life in general) have issues with that.

Luckily I have parents who are more on the laissez faire end of the spectrum.

unsoccer-mom · October 5, 2005, 11:58am

You would have to go to myspace and set up your own account. Just don’t have any info or pictures on it. Then you have to surf by town or email. I think we really have an obligation to know what is out there.

At first when my daughter was younger and she and all her friends lied about thier ages to get on myspace, she was getting a lot of contacts from strange men. She cancelled that account and now blocks anyone she doesn’t know, and her friends on myspace are only people she knows in real life. There were a couple of people who put her on their friends list on facebook from school who she did not know and she booted them off. I think that is the real danger of myspace and facebook because you end up with people you don’t know getting access to a lot of information about you. I am getting much more comfortable with her ability to protect herself in the big cyber world because of my “touching base” with her through some snooping. Hate the word, but it seems needed in todays larger world reality.

pennypac · October 5, 2005, 12:11pm

Filmlover, you got that right. Bravisimo!

berurah · October 5, 2005, 1:29pm

My kids actually know about all of the journals I read. In fact, they read them too, and will say to me, “Hey, did you see that so-and-so did this-and-that?” My middle daughter has one good friend who keeps an innocuous journal, and she has asked me not to read that friend’s journal. I have respected her wishes on that.

Let’s look at it this way…when I did stuff that I didn’t want my parents to know about, I didn’t publically broadcast it! That worked very well to ensure privacy. ~berurah, the watchful

Faline2 · October 5, 2005, 2:13pm

It is an adjustment being out of the loop with my college freshman. He always filled my evenings with pithy commentary and wit. However, I am happy that he is loving his new friends and confiding his daily dialogue to what sounds like a group of fine peers, his new college family, a crucial step in life before you hit your twenties that I want him to fully enjoy. 
It is weird having email and cell phones and not using them all that much, though and there are many roads to Nirvana. Some parents are perfectly fine chatting often with their sons and daughters and this is a non issue for them and no reflection on their independence. People just have different boundaries in different families. For me it is a weening off experience, but an expected one. We are sort of settled into a very rewarding conversation a week. I would appreciate having specific things acknowleged by email…package arrivals, doctor info, but at some level I get that having Mom in the mix detracts from independence. As I said to S, “I could call you four times a day,but there is still no way I am going to be privy to your reality anymore…your daily ups downs fears fun”…most of it will be out of our sight and not shared. 
Me, I am moving furniture around a lot. Thinking about the next chapter in life sans children more and more. Reading the college newspaper daily but not sending off emails or asking if S attended this or that cultural event, even though I wonder. That would get old fast, I am sure. I look forward to Winter break and those cups of coffee and chats. My gratitude goes to Duke at this point for their phenomenal FOCUS program and for the kids of good character, not just good test scores, that I met there. much to be grateful for!

cheers · October 5, 2005, 4:48pm

roby…first cyber hugs from all of us…incredibly sad to see Bali attacked again…how is Jakarta holding up?

Live journals should be used by writers-to-be, voices who want to be read by a wide audience. Using it as a diary is misguided on so many levels. Can’t see either S keeping a live journal–although S1 does have a facebook, whatever that is. I certainly have no idea how to access his page–and he doesn’t want me to have a clue.

roby, in fairness, people who transplant themselves 9000 miles away from family are a different breed. Your need for contact is obviously much lower than the average Joe becasue the average Joe wouldn’t/couldn’t live your ex-pat life. Or mine.

That said, I am sure your Ss do feel you are close to them. Mine do too. I don’t accept the ‘MO’ of poor correspondence, though, and ask for an acceptable minimum for H, me–and the grandparents. Good correspondents reap so many rewards through life. It is a habit worth teaching. Says me, the woman who will drain the bank account if too many weeks go by without a word. ;)

I also disagree that our Ss have not had to handle serious issues on their own. They have. That’s why I try to teach mine to hold their friends close. In modern society, friends are often the support that gets you through tough times or difficult issues.

I agree withthose who say that some information is sacrosanct. I don’t want to discuss my marriage or finances or sex life with my boys. I don’t expect them to share every detail for me. I’d be worried if they did.

Are Kids Well Served by Parents Knowing Too Much

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