<p>Isn’t it true, though, that we have all the facts we are going to get? I think it’s obvious which way the evidence points. Religion can be used as an excellent tool for discipline and philosophy but when it is used as a crutch and excuse, it debilitates people.</p>
<p>but we dont have all the evidence, and from my viewpoint its obvious that the evidence points in the opposite direction that you’re suggesting</p>
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<p>lol wow, not even…</p>
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<p>We just invented the engine about 100 years ago. We figured out the computer within the last 50. We still rely on oil! We haven’t stepped foot on ONE planet beside our own. All those billions of stars in the sky are not planets. They’re suns, many with dozens of planets surrounding them just like our’s. </p>
<p>We are primates who have hardly scratched the surface of knowledge. My only claim is that we don’t know. I don’t put the burden of proof on others any more than I do myself. But I am willing to admit that:</p>
<p>a) I don’t know - and neither do you.</p>
<p>b) I have had MANY experiences in the physical world that have absolutely shattered beyond any shadow of a doubt assumptions projected as fact by scientists and those who defend science as if it’s answered all of our questions.</p>
<p>We will never prove whether or not there is a God. The point is that there is a very good chance we will prove that it doesn’t matter whether or not there is a God. We will probably be able to achieve everything and more attributed to various gods throughout history via science. </p>
<p>We just can’t get stuck in a materialist worldview, assume we have all the answers, and stop searching. I don’t know why my stance causes so much derision. It is the foundation of scientific principle to keep asking questions.</p>
<p>If religious people are mentally ill then America is pretty f***** considering the fact that 83% of americans are religious and 78.4% of those religous Americans are Christians.</p>
<p>[Statistics</a> on Religion in America Report – Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life](<a href=“Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center”>http://religions.pewforum.org/reports)</p>
<p>Really ppl who make comments like the OP are REALLY insecure. If I did not believe in something say Unicorns, why would I feel the need to ever talk about unicorns or care about ppl who believe in unicorns?
The only reason ppl who do not believe in GOD ever talk about GOD is because they are not secure in their own beliefs. Christians don’t go around wondering about Muslims or Jews or Hindus or (gasp) Atheists, ppl choose to believe what they want. Bc not believing in GOD is a belief, just as any opinion about the afterlife is bc we do not know.</p>
<p>Please stop this, it just makes atheists look ignorant. </p>
<p>(And shows that you may want to evaluate the security of your own beliefs if you have to denigrate ppl who believe in something different from you)</p>
<p>I’m going to have to say no. religious people are not mentally ill. I think being able to believe in a higher being allows some people to not become mentally ill, even if circumstances (both nature and nurture) support becoming ill. It allows people to receive comfort. If one believes in karma they can allow life to go on as is even after a disaster. They do not have to spend as much time dwelling on vengeance and rage, which can decrease or circumvent aggression and obsessive thoughts. It may allow them to ‘turn it over to God’ and not internalize (which can lead to a myriad of disorders) anything that may have occurred. Also religion allows people to not feel alone. It is human nature to seek relationships and intimacy. Yet if a person cannot connect with anyone else for any reason there is comfort in being able to talk to God or Mary or to a guardian angel. This can provide reassurance, hence warding off isolation, detachment, depression, or anxiety. Also people who have religious practices often congregate in a group. Often these practices are similar from one place to another (aka if you move from NY to VA, you will still be able to find a catholic church that practices similarly to your home parish). So just the fact of being able to feel a sense of community and interact with other people in any place can alleviate some mental illness, even if you don’t believe a word of the scripture! Although I do believe that religion can ward off illness, it does not exempt anyone from mental illnesses. People who are religious are not guaranteed to be ill (and i think being religious decreases the likelihood of illness) they can be.</p>
<p>^^Don’t respond to that with a serious post. The OP obviously know religious ppl are not mentally ill and is probably just some immature student who thought it would be cool to offend ppl. </p>
<p>OP ppl like you sicken me. Ppl who are so ignorant as to insult an entire group of ppl. YOU are the exact same as the ppl who persecute homosexuals and minorities. Because at the base of any type of hate is ignorance and from this thread and other posts you have made you have shown that you are purely ignorant. </p>
<p>The world does not need ppl who are are too blind to understand that ppl are different, and that those differences in opinion do not make one person better than any other. We are all just ppl and our differences don’t matter and to degrade other ppl’s beliefs shows that YOU ARE A CLOSED MINDED BIGOT!!!</p>
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<p>If you’re talking about physical illness, then wow.</p>
<p>^^^Actually medically your mental state does impact physical health i.e. if being religious benefits your mental health then it benefits your overall health as well. </p>
<p>Oh and the condescending “wow” comment is really immature. If you disagree with someone state what is wrong with their statement, don’t make rude comments.</p>
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<p>Really? When I was in the U.S., people tried to convert me to Christianity and save my soul. Whole year long</p>
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<p>Anecdote: When I was 7, I came to the logical conclusion that Santa Claus couldn’t exist. Of course I shared my argument with the rest of the class, not because I was “insecure” about my conclusions, I just thought they should know.</p>
<p>My theory is that most (not all!) religious people believe because of a “feeling”, while many (not all!) atheists have rational, logic-based reasons for their convictions. So if atheists have been more vocal than their religious counterparts on this thread, it’s because logic is easier to convey over the internet than emotion.</p>
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<p>Is not believing in leprechauns a belief? Is believing Harry Potter is a work of fiction a belief? Is believing the President is not a disguised alien a belief? We do not know.</p>
<p>^ Well, yes. Those are beliefs.</p>
<p>^ Well of course their beliefs! I believe that the president is an alien; I believe that the idiot boxes will take control of everyone’s minds; I believe that the Earth is square… What you believe are your beliefs. Yea.</p>
<p>I believe that God is logical. Sure, God created the universe, but He did it with a plan in mind. A plan involving quantum mechanics and evolution.</p>
<p>Please note that 300 years ago “science” had no clue that ultraviolet light existed. The technology and scientific theories necessary to detect and explain electromagnetic waves beyond the visible spectrum did not exist. The idea that there is no God because our technology is unable to detect it/him/her/them is naive and arrogant. You really cannot prove a negative. A rational position would be that there is no convincing evidence for a God so the question remains open.</p>
<p>Humans interface with “physical reality” through the medium of our five senses and the thought constructs we devise based on this data. Sight is detection of electromagnetic radiation. Hearing is detection of atmospheric vibrations or pressure waves. Touch is mechanical displacement of nerve fibers. Taste and smell are chemical interactions with cellular receptors. The idea that we can completely establish and understand the nature and structure of reality through these limited mediums is very optimistic.</p>
<p>Science has made many false starts. Phlogiston theory comes readily to mind but there have been others. Generally new theories that represent a quantum leap forward in understanding are resisted by the scientific establishment. Work that is a relatively small step forward from existing dogma is usually embraced. This reminds me of the behavior of religious establishments in dealing with new revelations.</p>
<p>The best argument for their being some actual value to religion is that there has never, never been a great athiest society/culture. The old Soviet Union tried it back before World War II. The birth rate declined and no one would fight for Mother Russia. The Soviets had to allow religion to defeat the National Socialists from Germany. </p>
<p>In any conflict, the tribe with a God will kick the ass of the tribe without a God. It does not even matter whether the God is a real God unless the conflict is with a tribe that has a “real” God. The military success of Christians might be an argument for the validity of the Christian God.</p>
<p>Religion works to order and restrict the baser impulses of humanity by imposing an external moral absolute. If anyone thinks humanity can be more that feral savages squatting in the ruins of once great faith based (or rationalized) civilizations then they are pre-susposing the existence of a “moral compass” in humanity for which there is even less evidence than that for a white bearded Jehovah figure.</p>
<p>It is disrespectful and immature of you to ask a question that is so rude. Just because you do not agree with someones beliefs or values does not give you the authority to inquire upon their mental state. Religion isn’t just right wing people as some one ont his thread wrote. Religion can be pagan, wican, christian, budhist, etc. People aren’t mentally ill because they have faith. Why don;t you just call children all mentally ill because they believe in things that are not real?! Seriously, what was your thought process when you posted this? What the heck did you look to gain here???</p>
<p>The original question is an example of circular reasoning; the premise pre-susposes the conclusion. This is a frequent logic error of both devout Athiests and devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. This is an equally valid and flawed question; Are people unable to feel the presence and glory of God mentally ill? </p>
<p>Who is more sane; the kid who believes (or pretends to believe) in Santa Claus and gets lots of loot or the kid who denies Santa and gets nothing? The reality of Santa is moot. I suggest that the only thing that matters is results. Religion works to order society. Take it away and the mob will tear itself to pieces.</p>
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Why should the kid who denies Santa receive nothing? Even after we were old enough to know beyond a shadow of doubt Santa Claus did not exist, my sister and I continued to receive presents from our parents.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think this is about people who pretend to believe in religion to get results. The point is, are the people in the mob who actually believe in religion mentally ill?</p>
<p>Justification of the question: (not the OP, just thought I should say this) A common characteristic of many mental illnesses are delusions – strong personal beliefs held in spite of invalidating evidence. The belief that people are spying on you or reading your mind, or that a celebrity you have never met is in love with you, or that random things like license plates hold secret messages for you to decipher. You can’t prove these things false, but there’s no reason to believe they’re true. And the person who believes in a great, invisible being who loves them personally, hears their thoughts, and speaks to them through text written centuries before their birth – what about them?</p>
<p>That said, I do NOT think religious people are mentally ill, I just wanted to show that asking that question =/= persecuting minorities.</p>
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<p>300 years ago, you would have found more people who believed that the moon was made of cheese or that lead could be turned into gold than people who believed in “invisible light” that caused skin cancer and sunburns. All three beliefs would have been equally valid, because they were all possible, but (at the time) there was no evidence to support any of them. They were guesses. It’s possible that science will one day find that some of today’s guesses are correct, but it’s statistically much more likely that they’ll be proven false.</p>
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<p>You’re not suggesting that the defeat of the Soviet Union was because of atheism? I think they had bigger problems. Like, famine and civil war, for instance.</p>
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<p>So does totalitarianism. That doesn’t make it a good thing.</p>
<p>Stella and others, we tend to believe to feel safe and comfortable. For some people comfort is, say, God, afterlife, etc. For some people it is independence and consequently no God, afterlife, etc. </p>
<p>We all believe, and it is not like we have any choice. If you do not accept some things as axioms, you won’t go far. You need to BELIEVE that you can trust your senses, namely eyes, ears, and touches. If you don’t - hey, you might be in a programmed environment, and all of us around you may be not ‘real’ (definition of real - no idea… come with it on your own). But you won’t be comfortable believing in that, would you? It is uncertainty, most of people do not like uncertainties. So they prefer to KNOW (while it is actually an unsupported belief) that there is/there is no God, and that they will/will not go to afterlife, or w/e. Not believing in anything makes life harder and not so interesting (at least for me). There simply is no point in living, when you become pragmatic and realize why people do certain things. You also understand that sometimes you wish you could believe in something you consider absurd right now :)</p>
<p>Now concerning the examples of more or less ‘realistic’ idea of God, and ‘not realistic’ idea of a of umm… Pink horse under the earth? We find God more realistic because he/she was mentioned in Holy Books, has more or less established presence. The pink horse doesn’t. And YES, if it was presented in some books, and we were raised in a contact with some culture that used it as some God, we would have had different beliefs. But it is not comfortable to believe so… Just not comfortable. Not comfortable to realize that there are no morals, that thousand years ago one thing was right, and in 500 years people will look at us and laugh, not comfortable to realize that we will die and nothing will change. So we believe in something, and feel happy.</p>
<p>Stella, I cannot imagine how you could possibly logically prove that there is no Santa. I mean, you can probably prove that your parents put the present under the tree, but again, no proof that there is no Santa, even using an axiom of trusting our senses.</p>
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<p>I do not believe that past exists (elaborated in 1984), but given the historical records and my contacts with veterans etc. (I come from former Soviet Union), you are wrong. Soviet Union never ‘allowed’ religion anywhere close to the WW2, and people were throwing themselves on guns to help ‘our glorious union’, as they were quite seriously brainwashed by the government. But you are right that for an Atheistic society it will be harder to keep an order; when you are religious you have moral values imposed by a Book or deity, and you ‘know’ you can’t break them. When you are atheist you may still realize that you need those moral values to survive in a society, but sometimes it is not enough.</p>