Are stay-at-home-moms too dumb to know why they are staying home?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Another way to look at what SAHM’s do, meaning they do “work” but do not get compensated from the outside but from the inside and the benefits their family accrues-
I added up what it would cost to TRULY replace me in all that I do for my family if I was not a SAHM.</p>

<ol>
<li>Psychologist</li>
<li>Driver</li>
<li>Shopper (and look for the best prices on the best items- so save $ while enhancing quality)</li>
<li>Family correspondent</li>
<li>Party Planner</li>
<li>Tutor</li>
<li>School and sports and arts volunteer (for kids)</li>
<li>Community and Charity volunteer</li>
<li>Family Scheduler</li>
<li>Cook and menu-planner</li>
<li>Housekeeper and laundress</li>
<li>Landscape designer and gardener</li>
<li>Interior Designer</li>
<li>Clean-up/Organizer</li>
<li>Activity Planner (weekends, after-school, summers)</li>
<li>Photographer</li>
<li>Bill-payer</li>
<li>Medical Care researcher and organizer</li>
<li>Health insurance claimer</li>
<li>Wardrobe manager</li>
<li>Pet care and training</li>
<li>Dog walker</li>
<li>Car maintenance and repair</li>
<li>House and appliance maintenance and repair</li>
<li>Investments</li>
<li>Taxes</li>
<li>Vacation planner</li>
<li>College Application planner</li>
<li>Assist with my parents and in-laws and some siblings</li>
<li>Retirement planner (Huh sure!!)</li>
<li>Infant and Childcare</li>
</ol>

<p>What else? What have I forgotten?</p>

<p>Now, obviously, not ALL these things would stop being done by me if I went to work full-time, and not ALL these would have to continue at the hands of someone else. BUT I think it is an important exercise in valuing what a SAHM does/what benefits go to the family- it would cost a pretty penny to pay someone ELSE to do these things!!! ( I did calculate just that- it was amazing! YMMV)</p>

<p>p.s. Obviously, this list focuses on merely the LOGISTICAL aspects of parenting. Not a mention of the subjective, inter-personal, heart-warming, emotional rewards to all involved…</p>

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<p>‘I agree that fathers do little in this country to raise their kids. But that is easily fixable. Mothers should demand that their spouses pitch in equally. (Wives) can’t complain about anything, really, as they are making a choice and refusing alternatives.’</p>

<p>How very simple your life is, IP. My family has more complex issues, I’m afraid. My H is an engineer in a specialty field that pays well (one of your criteria), however, it requires that he travel 25 - 50% of the time - he designs and builds complex integrated manufacturing and storage facilities all over the country and in some foreign countries. Sorry, but he can’t make is clients move to our city, and simply moving to a new city wouldn’t solve the issue. </p>

<p>I made the decision to quit my well paying job in a Fortune 250 company when we had children, focusing instead on part-time or limited term consulting work that would allow me the time required to run the household and provide care for the children. With one parent away that much there is NO WAY I would have handed over my children to help. </p>

<p>I know you will say he has the choice of going into work that requires no travel, but he finds his work extremely rewarding, he is extremely good at it (something of an expert in his particular field), and makes enough so that we can provide the family life we BOTH want for our children. There is no reason for him to take a dumbed down job with less pay so that he will fit into your mold of father and so that I can work full time. </p>

<p>Even with travel, he has been a school board member and I have been on the executive board of the parents organization for years. This involvement has allowed us to contribute to the betterment of the school for all the students, not just our kids.</p>

<p>Our children have been involved in extracurricular activities ranging from sports teams to music, theater and art. All of these activities have involved being part of a group or team (ensemble, team, troupe, or class) and each of these require contributions from parents in the form of both time and money - “help” could never fill the shoes of a parent. My H is very involved in these activities, as am I.</p>

<p>Lucky for you, you have chosen mostly solitary activities for your child. The "help’ seems able to provide the required transportation…</p>

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<p>The academic standards are that of the IB system. We get report cards twice a year.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t be happy with that.
I have not been overly impressed with IB curricula and I find parent conferences where I can ask ? and see their portfolio to be much more informative than report cards.</p>

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<p>Neither have I. But what’s the alternative? Homeschool? I am not a fan of that. Kids need the company of other kids. But I agree with you that the academic standards of een the IB program which is more advanced that the average public school is nothing compared to international standards.</p>

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<p>Performersmom, Don’t working parents also manage to do all those things somehow?</p>

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<p>I find it curious that it is always the husbands who have such a job that is completely inflexible so that they can’t pitch in 50-50. It is never the wives.</p>

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<p>On the subject of husbands, that was one thing that my being a SAHM did that was a positive for us economically - with one parent at home, the other parent was free to more fully commit to his career. My husband never had to turn down a business trip or a late meeting because he had to pick up the kids from daycare. We both recognized from the start that this choice would help him to move up more quickly - and jokingly said that because of that, if we ever divorced I would definitely deserve alimony! </p>

<p>Having one parent home, whether male or female, does free the other parent up to more fully purse their career. I have neighbors where the wife is a partner in a law firm. She works at least 50 hours per week. The husband was a SAHD when the kids were younger. When they hit school age, he did some part-time work, painting and such, for a neighbor who is a contractor. Now that his kids are grown he is running his own business.</p>

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In this case it WAS the wife, and not the husband.</p>

<p>I think my BIL and SIL are the image of the modern couple. She is a partner in a law firm but works 4 days per week. The 5th day she is home and does anywhere from 1 - 3 hours of work (returning emails, etc). The husband is in sales, and his office is in their house. He does a fair amount of traveling but when he’s home, he’s HOME. Who handles the needs of their 2 elementary age sons varies from week to week, depending on each one’s work schedule. And they pay a bi-weekly cleaning lady to do the heavy cleaning in the house.</p>

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<p>If your husband can do that while working, then it seems that it is not necessary to quit working in order to be engaged.</p>

<p>Look, I think people are getting upset over the help part. We do have copious amounts of help. But this is what the help does - cooking, cleaning, laundry, transportation, shopping, house and car maintainance, pet care, what have you. I have been urging my wife to get a personal assistant so that bill paying and taxes and all that other stuff can be outsourced as well. (One of these days I will have a break through.) So there is really not a lot left to do. Yes, there is a math tutor, a piano tutor, a cello tutor, a squash coach, what have you. But my wife spends 10-15 hours per week sitting next to the kid during piano/cello practice. She attends all the piano/cello classes to take notes. I do the same for squash. We jointly do that for math. So it is not like we have outsourced all of childcare. We have only outsourced the non-value added bits.</p>

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<p>Excellent.</p>

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<p>IP, I don’t know if you understand this, but the level of household help that you’ve described above–especially for a family with a single school-aged child–is at a level that very very few families can afford. You and your wife aren’t splitting things 50-50: you’re at a high enough income level that you can buy your way out of the work. Which is great, more power to you. The problem is that you can’t seem to see that your situation is highly unusual and fortunate. </p>

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<p>Strange as it may seem to you, there is value in a child learning how to clean, cook, pay bills, shop, manage transportation, care for a pet, and all of the other mundane tasks of life. The spouse and I do outsource some household tasks, but when our children leave home, they aren’t going to be in a situation where they can afford to pay someone to clean or cook or the rest. They’re going to have to do it themselves.</p>

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<p>On this, we agree.</p>

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<p>I do understand that. However, it is all about labor arbitrage. Housekeepers get paid about $20/hour. So if someone makes more than that, plus enough to cover taxes and such, which comes to about $50k/year, then to me it makes sense to work and spend all that money to hire someone to do the household work. The reason for this is many fold, but the main one is that it takes women out of the role of unpaid domestic labor, and provides a lot of security in the case of divorce which is quite common. In my experience it makes for a much equal relationship where the husband cannot use financial security as a means to control the wife. Before people jump in and say that such is not the case in their relationship, this is in general true. He who has the gold often makes the rules. </p>

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<p>Sorry, but I don’t buy that. In my first job I earned less than 5% of what I now earn now, but I could still outsource most household tasks. Because my needs were also much lower then. I didn’t have a house, didn’t have kids, didn’t have … whatever.</p>

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<p>But what’s the alternative? Homeschool? I am not a fan of that. Kids need the company of other kids.</p>

<p>Well in our area, IB schools are in the public sector.</p>

<p>Private schools like Lakeside have more flexibility to develop their own programs depending on the needs & interests of the community.</p>

<p>Our youngest attended a public school with multiple AP courses but also non-AP curriculum that had been developed by faculty which attracted students ( & teachers)* away* from schools like Lakeside.</p>

<p>Phillipe Cousteau is a fan, the music program wins national, even international acclaim & all for the price of a public school.</p>

<p>( of course it does rely on a great deal of parent volunteer time & energy to make everything run smoothly)</p>

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<p>Housekeepers get paid about $20/hour. So if someone makes more than that, plus enough to cover taxes and such, which comes to about $50k/year, then to me it makes sense to work and spend all that money to hire someone to do the household work. The reason for this is many fold, but the main one is that it takes women out of the role of unpaid domestic labor</p>

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<p>I don’t even earn $50k per year in a professional job. You are very, very, very fortunate. I doubt that there are many people reading this thread who can even relate to the kind of money you earn.</p>

<p>And for what it’s worth, this woman would absolutely clean toilets for $50k/year. :wink: But I suppose my point of view is unfathomable to someone who has always outsourced the menial jobs in life.</p>

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<p>Also keep in mind that just because someone can afford $50K a year to outsource household tasks, doesn’t mean he will want to. It is important to teach your child how to take care of himself so that he will have options. Maybe instead of spending $50K on help, he would rather save that money, or invest it, or have fun once in a while, or who knows what. </p>

<p>Also, what happens if your child lives in a dorm room in college? It’s not realistic to hire help to clean the room, prepare any meals not included in meal plans, and transport him around campus and off-campus.</p>

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<p>IP, where were you living when you got your first job? Was it in the US, or elsewhere?</p>

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<p>‘Performersmom, Don’t working parents also manage to do all those things somehow?’ </p>

<p>IP, your q does not make much sense because there are a number of things on the list that you and you wife just do not do (by choice, you say.) By this, I take it that one can just skip things on the list that one does not want to do, does not have the time to do, or cannot afford to outsource. Of course that is all “true”. </p>

<p>My point was not that one would have to be stay at home to be able to do all this, but that these are all possible value additions:</p>

<p>the SAHP can make a huge contribution without earning a dime.</p>

<p>And add #32. Allow spouse to commit 110% to his/her career, including promotions, training, travel, entertainment, conferences, and moving jobs anywhere in the world.</p>

<p>Also, paid help has to be interviewed, hired, trained and managed very carefully - a cost beyond the $, IMO.</p>

<p>And some of the stuff that is NOT on the list is “PRICELESS”: seeing your kid score a goal, attending the dance recital, sitting in traffic listening to your D talk to her friends freely as you carpool them to ballet, reading a book to your child, helping dress and make up your child and class mates for their school musical or for the Nutcracker, serving cookies to your child’s class, shaking your child’s teacher’s hand at the end of the day while looking them in the eye, giving your child advice about her latest social situation, watching your toddler take her first steps, listen to your child read his first words or sing his first song…</p>

<p>Being the main caregiver of one’s child does mean that one will be there for much of the above. It would be hard to say that a full time working parent could be sure to be there for many of these on a regular basis.</p>

<p>I am not sure what one can say about a paid person playing a role in those little moments.</p>

<p>Hard to say what “value” these have to anyone but the parent, but IMHO the child and the community and family all benefit from these moments. They build neurons and stimulate endocrine chemicals to make the organisms healthier and more resilient emotionally, as well as lubricating the systems. Kinda like primates grooming.</p>

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<p>My wife and I made our choices, and we’re happy with them, although they had negatives as well as positives. I don’t see much point in praising or criticizing others for the choices they make; people have to chose between sub-optimal alternatives and do the best they can.</p>

<p>Having said that, I think that the premise of the article cited by the OP was spot on. The choices that people have to make are driven by family-unfriendly business attitudes which are hostile to making family-friendly adjustments to traditional work patterns. And I’m seriously peeved at BS like the following, which was included in the first comment on the article on it’s AOL site (not here):

To begin with, the statement is pernicious nonsense: the number of American-educated physicians is limited by the number of slots available in American medical schools, which have not kept pace with population growth for a long time. The solution isn’t to discriminate against women, it’s to authorize the construction and staffing of more medical schools. And the number of surgeons, specifically, is governed by the number of surgical residencies available to med school graduates - and the percentage of surgical residencies which are filled by American medical school graduates is higher than the percentage of residencies so filled in other specialties (including, ironically, family medicine and pediatrics.) <a href=“http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt; Residencies in surgical specialties are highly competitive.</p>

<p>I’m also irritated by this:

What part of this (other than the putative physician shortage) is a bad thing? What is desirable about having a physician who doesn’t have a “decent work-life balance”? Isn’t the answer to try to achieve a better work-life balance in more specialties? We really don’t need to have physicians work 60 or more hours a week. Increases in productivity (i.e. decreases in time-wasting busy work) have made it so that we have more people capable of handling professional level jobs, including physicians, than “full-time” jobs available under current standards - and probably will continue to have a glut of candidates over jobs for a long time. The glut of law school graduates is already a scandal. Implementing a new philosophy of what constitutes full employment would allow more people to have jobs - and a healthier “work-life balance” at the same time.</p>

<p>Just because our parents did things one way in their day doesn’t mean our children should have to do things that same way. I, for one, would like to see a future in which my sons and daughter would have the option of sharing both their home and work contributions to their families with their future spouses in whatever ratio worked best for them - rather than being forced into a 100% - 0% split. Some might opt for 100 - 0; others 50-50. Having the choice would be a good thing. (My wife and I did not have that choice.)</p>

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<p>Come from a culture where parents living with the couple is common. DW and I both worked full time, and DW’s surviving parent still lives with us.</p>

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<p>Exactly. Yes, given enough money, you can sub out all the parental duties you want but, for me, having those experiences was something I couldn’t bear to miss out on and you could not have paid me enough to do so. I’m a big believer in quantity time, not quality time. Having said that, I realize I was incredibly lucky to have a spouse who makes enough that I didn’t need to work and was supportive of me staying home.</p>

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<p>Kluge - I wrote that paragraph in defense of allowing part-time and better work-life balance in the workplace. It was in respond to someone who said they were seeing more part-time lawyers these days and I was responding it’s the same way in medicine and I think it is a great thing. I’m a big, big believer in work-life balance.</p>