It’s pretty much the same thing, I think.
Your story about the subway reminded me of an incident that occurred when I was 17. I was standing on a crowded subway train, holding onto the metal pole with my one hand hanging down. I suddenly felt something on my hand, looked down and saw some guy’s penis. I closed my hand on it as tight as I could and yanked down, HARD, then yelled “Pervert.” The guy screamed and tried to get away. A man standing near me punched him and then the guy got out at the next stop. I have never considered that to be an assault and I certainly didn’t consider myself a victim. I hadn’t thought about it for decades, until your story dragged it out of a 40 year retirement. I didn’t consider it my fault, I considered myself a target of opportunity. I do keep my fists clenched, though, when I stand on the subway now.
It’s not my story to tell but someone I know was molested by a same sex offender as a child. The damage was severe for many years but counseling really did help.
@techmom99, yes! What guts and presence of mind at only 17! You’re my hero. 
Every woman should know of the “testicle twist and yank.” If his johnson is accessible, much easier than an eye gouge. I always knew it as the twist and pull, but yank seems much better.
Knowing and having the wherewithal to use it, especially in the shock of the moment and being caught off guard, are two very different things. Especially for a young woman, so kudos to @techmom99.
I think what I would do in my 40s and now 50s is very different than what I would have done in my teens and 20s. Even now, though, we don’t always react with forcefulness and directness in the moment. I can think of verbal comments, not all harassment some just petty and mean, that just take me aback at the time they are uttered and it isn’t until later that the right retort comes to mind. I might get wiser as I age, but I still get shocked by people’s meanness, lack of manners, and depravity.
^^Yeah, I know what you mean. When it happens now (rarely), I’m kind of shocked and I think of a better response after the fact. A guy started yelling and whistling at me a little while ago in Canada, and I just laughed, thinking, “Dude, you must need glasses!” But back in the day if anyone said something over the line (and my line is pretty far out there), I was like Morpheus in the Matrix…oh yeah, bring it on! And you’re gonna regret it.
I’m getting severely out of practice. B-)
Actually, what I was saying is that I’d be more likely to react proactively and forcefully now. My younger self would have been more shocked and surprised and less likely to “make a scene”.
Funny. I guess I really don’t know how I’d react now anymore, it’s been so long since it happened. And I was far more used to it when I was younger now I am complacent. Though I think if I felt threatened, I would react pretty strongly.
When I was at community college (and I was about 25 at the time, late bloomer), I had a campus job in the library helping people using the computers. There was a guy who was in some of my classes, but not in my circle of friends, who would stop by my desk to chat. On at least two occasions, I walked past the cubicle where he stationed himself to find him exposing himself. I wasn’t traumatized, but I can remember being vaguely embarrassed. I was already married at the time, so it wasn’t like I hadn’t seen, ahem, such things before. I don’t remember giving much thought to what I should or could do about it (it has always seemed almost like a dream, actually). It doesn’t seem like it would have been much of a crime and it would have been my word against his. There was some risk in accusing someone, having it be dismissed as silly, and having them retaliate in some way.
I never mentioned it to anyone (until now), but I’ve occasionally remembered it and hoped that he is now on a registry somewhere. I wonder if there is a way to find out.
^^Yes, I think it’s pretty easy to find out whom is on a sex registry. Can’t tell you the details, but I do believe it’s easy to find out.
@doschicos : absolutely! That’s a big part of the whole “me too” movement, if it actually is a movement. It’s happened to us, and we didn’t respond the way women do on television shows or in movies, and we didn’t kick a$$ and emerge victorious. Sometimes we slunk away, ashamed even though we didn’t do anything wrong.
I admire any girl who can do @CottonTales move, or @techmom99 s. These are great self-defense moves, and we should all at least consider them. As far as that goes, I’ve employed the “shout loudly that someone is bothering you and they’d better BACK OFF” defense. I’ve never twisted and pulled anything, at least to date. And a few times when I felt threatened, I simply froze. Wish I didn’t, but I did.
There’s some small degree of safety and gravitas that comes with age (and invisibility), and predators aren’t interested in us for the most part. I’m not talking about rapists or every predator.
Young women are treated like jokes in many instances. They’re sexy and stupid and naive and vapid. Nobody believes them if they complain about sexual harassment. They’re just trying to get attention, just like they do with all those selfies that they post. And if you’re a young woman, and you don’t want that kind of attention, you just might let it go.
@techmom99 - I’d call that assault, but you were no victim. Good for you!
I don’t think you ever know how you’ll react to something like this. Once many moons ago I was mugged near the Watts Towers. When the police rounded up the usual suspects, I was absolutely no help. I remembered the knife, the stick and the bat, and still do to this day, but what the kids looked like (and they were teens), I saw nothing beyond skin color. I really felt ashamed of myself. If it ever happens again, I’ll do better, thankfully it hasn’t been necessary.
I had a conversation today. A friend of mine said it had never happened to her. I told her about an incident that happened to me. It made her remember something that had happened to her and suddenly she got it. How much do we suppress or forget?
“When the police rounded up the usual suspects, I was absolutely no help.”
Most people are pretty bad eyewitnesses even when they are just an observer to the crime.
“How much do we suppress or forget?”
A lot. Especially in the immediate aftermath. It is easy for our minds to want to push things aside. It is a defense mechanism and in some ways probably aids in survival, back when life was all about survival mode. Same for the flight reaction.
@mathmom, I don’t think you should feel remotely bad about not remembering details for a crime, in such a stressful situation.
My sister was a bank teller, who was held up at gunpoint. All she could remember was how big the gun was, and telling the bank robber, “Here, do you want more? I have more.”
techmom, wow! that is one impressive reaction. I am guessing you probably saved a few other women from experiencing that particular horror.
There’s a difference between fending off street harassment (in Jersey we’d flip them off) and dealing with otherwise normal social and employment situations. And the signals can be so vague. Is my neighbor/boss actually hitting on me? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Is this kind of affectionate hugging normal in this industry? A woman who interviewed to be HW’s babysitter said he greeted her at the door in his underpants, and she was unsure if this was just a Hollywood thing.
I assume you washed your hands when you were done. Yech. @-)
I often greet people at the door in my underpants. Usually accompanied by pants, shirt, socks, bra, and possibly shoes as well. 
@sylvan, haha, I sometimes skip the bra, depending on the time. I didn’t do the woman justice. She said he wore a tee shirt and boxers, and she was bewildered because she thought he just forgot about their meeting. This was at his home. All the hugging and weird questions she put down to the Hollywood culture.