Are you raising your sons to be "gentlemen?"

Parent Cafe
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<p>To the question about gender and “gentlemanliness:”</p>

<p>This hasn’t seemed complicated in the “doing,” but it’s tricky in the “telling.”</p>

<p>You look out for and help those who need it (this is genderless). This can be because the other is younger, elderly, infirm, smaller, etc. Note: this does not automatically translate into “females are weaker.”</p>

<p>You are kind to all (except that you and your friends communicate with sarcasm–that’s OK because everyone gets it and on one is hurt. The important point, of course, is to know the difference)</p>

<p>There is a difference between everyday interaction with one’s peers (male and female) and more ritualized situations, such as Prom. When you take a young woman out for Prom, yes, the ritual requires that you offer your arm, hold her chair, etc.</p>

<p>Part of what I want to have taught our son is to be comfortable and appropriate in a variety of situations. Table manners at a pig roast will be significantly different from those expected at a white-tie reception. Day to day interactions with his classmates are different from those he will have with a job interviewer.</p>

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<p>No. Eddie Haskell was a smarmy snot!</p>

<p>;0)</p>

<p>Genuineness is part of gentlemanliness!</p>

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<p>mafool, I agree with you – I was just saying an Eddie Haskell gets a job interview before a total caveman.</p>

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<p>My theme: “Treat others in such a way as to bring out the best in them, and thereby in yourself.” </p>

<p>But I do seem to keep having to tell my 14 yo that I don’t need to see his knees at the dinner table. What’s up with that?</p>

<p>And I agree that being specific helps with the small fry. I vividly remember telling my son that when the principal says “hello” to you, you MUST look him or her in the eye and say “hello” back loud enough that they can hear it.</p>

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<p>I’m trying!
I have two sons who will turn 20 and 16 this year. We insisted on family dinners, appropriate grooming and attire, polite language, considerate behavior … etc.</p>

<p>Both my boys attended public schools … one graduated from our local high school, the other attended through 7th grade and is now at a local independent school that heavily promotes character development and good citizenship. The older one had a year at boarding school and we think there was good results from the year of family style dinners, formal class dress, and involved faculty/coaches that see their role as more than classroom or athletic field works.</p>

<p>It’s not an inexpensive method of producing gentlemen – but it worked for us!</p>

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<p>mathmom-</p>

<p>some wierd mutation takes effect at about 14 years of age! S is 19 now and seems to have reverted back to human. I think it happened at around 16.</p>

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<p>We’ve hammered on the “look them in the eye and give a firm handshake” rule since my son was young. It was most difficult age 10 to 13 when he was unsure of who he was and if he was in trouble or simply being spoken to by an adult/coach/dad/mom, etc. </p>

<p>Now it is automatic and he appears confident even when he’s scared to death! I see so many middle-school boys who lack the simplest of manners and they’re like bulls crashing through the halls and interrupting parents, coaches, teachers, etc. Most of the time their own parents stand there oblivious!</p>

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<p>Social graces need to be taught to both boys and girls. Some kids come by them more naturallly than others. I think my son was born a gentleman - and he has an outstanding role model in his father. </p>

<p>With my daughter, it was harder because I wanted her to be a “lady” without the sexist connotations that come with that. When do you start instructing on the “proper” way for a young woman to sit, for instance. At 7 - maybe not. At 12, absolutely. I think it’s equally difficult for a high-spirited and tomboyish girl to make the transition to grace and ladylike behavior, without putting sexist overtones on the whole project.</p>

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<p>I agree with ASAP, and avoid the sexist overtones as well.</p>

<p>In my experience, rude kids get their comeuppance. My son used to have a friend who never, and I mean never, said thank you when I gave him a ride home. That happened a couple times too many, and finally I just stopped giving him rides. It wasn’t doing ME any favors, and I didn’t like the attitude.</p>

<p>We feed and entertain a lot of kids. I really am partial to those who are appreciative, and say a lot of thank yous. Those who don’t are not quite as welcome.</p>

<p>I expect my children to show appreciation and thanks for people who have done things for them. In turn, I want them to do things for others.</p>

<p>Again, not gender based.</p>

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<p>Allmusic, I have been known to ask guest kids of 11-12+ to clear the table & help wash up when they seem to lack the skill of offering to do so.</p>

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<p>I’m still mad at the 8th grade girl who I gave rides to a high school math class with my son. She never, ever said hello or thank you. I’m still mad at her. Of course, my husband, said that early on, I probably should have said something like “In our family we say thank you when you are given a ride.” Presumably it would have kept me from simmering in resentment. Luckily at some point another Mom decided she liked giving the rides and took over doing all the driving. Problem solved!</p>

<p>But it does beg the question - when your children’s friends are rude, do you suggest politer responses? At what point might they get too old?</p>

<p>My sons did home daycare with a friend of mine, and I am very grateful that she taught them more manners than I might have.</p>

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<p>The joke used to be that I would say, “I am waiting for my thank you *****” and then he would sort of reluctantly say, “oh, thanks.” Sometimes my son would remind him. It just got tedious to me that he was unable to do this without prompting…plus he sometimes swore in the car, and I think I just found the kid annoying and irritating. Glad my son isn’t friends with him any longer!</p>

<p>And I have definitely asked kids to help, etc. I just like to see the ones that do this unsolicited, since <em>those</em> are the ones with good manners!</p>

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<p>When my son was seven, he and I took the boat from Long Beach to Catalina Island for a mother/son outing. He went up to the beverage counter with a dollar for drink, and came back with the drink …and the dollar.
The woman behind the counter had given him a free 7-up because he was the first young person to say “Thank You” to her in a WEEK! </p>

<p>We never needed to remind him to say thank you, especially after that incident.</p>

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<p>I always thought it would be bad manners on MY part to comment on the lack of manners in others’ children, so I tried not to correct them unless they crossed a line, such as swearing or hitting. Then it was, “so-and-so, we don’t allow that kind of talk in our house, so please don’t do that again,” still said politely.</p>

<p>(meanwhile, I was gritting my teeth and wishing I could strangle the little monster!)</p>

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<p>It is an interesting “gender” question. The feminist movement made it very difficult for men to know what was expected of them when it came to manners and the opposite sex. Is pulling out a chair in a restaurant for your date not okay any more? Is opening a car door for you date wrong? </p>

<p>I know I like it when my husband opens the car door when we are going out for special occasions. On the other hand I would never wait for him to open the car door if I was already in the car and we had arrived at our destination. </p>

<p>And I hate having my seat at a restaurant pulled out. But I love “ladies first” and having a door held open for me.</p>

<p>Argh…I feel bad for men who are trying to be gentlemen to the women in the world. They just don’t know what reaction to expect.</p>

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<p>

so true … in my experience one of the best indicators of how a job applicant will fit into a group … is how they treat the admin support when they are interviewing</p>

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<p>Have to admit I sent my son to one of those “Cotillion” programs when he was in middle school. They focused on social dancing but also emphasized manners - greeting the adult hosts, escorting a young lady back to her seat after a dance, offering her refreshments, etc. They even had one dinner party at which the kids were taught to pull out the chair for a young lady, how NOT to slurp soup, etc!</p>

<p>The whole thing seemed somewhat retro and un-PC to me, but I figured it would not hurt and after 30 years with a non-dancing hubby, I wanted to provide a dancing mate for my future daughter-in-law. (Hope whoever she is, she will appreciate it!) ;)</p>

<p>My boy is actually naturally quite considerate and caring. I was delighted on one occasion when I gave his girlfriend a ride home after track practice (son accompanying of course). When we arrived at GF’s house, the empty trash cans were at the bottom of her long hilled driveway, it having been trash day. I had continued on to park up by the house. When son exited from the car, he RAN down the driveway, grabbed the trash cans and brought them up to the garage. (His GF, a modern woman, actually raised an objection about his doing her chore. ;)) </p>

<p>I have been delighted to witness the many ways in which my son is caring and respectful to his GF. </p>

<p>I also have stressed with him to thank the parents after an evening at a friend’s home. It is always the last thing I mention when I drop him off and the first thing I ask him when I pick him up - to make sure he thanked the parents for welcoming him into their home. </p>

<p>Agree with TheDad about the measure of a man being how he treats those whom he would not benefit (at least in an obvious way) from impressing. We parents try to model appreciation and courtesy ourselves in such situations.</p>

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<p>About people/kids who don’t say thank you-</p>

<p>I just smile at them and say “You’re welcome” which usually produces a sheepish grin and “Uh, sorry, thanks…”</p>

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<p>I have 3 boys/men. My toads when they were he** on wheels and naughty kittens when they were TRYING to behave. They claimed to be always TRYING.</p>

<p>Now that 2 are in college and one ready to graduate next year I have been able to sit back and enjoy who they are becoming as people.</p>

<p>It was important to me that they have decent table manners, were polite and civil (even when they didn’t want to be), gave elders and others respect and didn’t swear within my hearing range.</p>

<p>But most important to me was how they truly thought of themselves and of others. When I was up dropping son off at school last week I noticed a few things that made me realize he is who he needs to be.</p>

<p>He knows on a first name basis (as they know him) and details of their lives and families, most of the staff and support services at his school. His floormate when she broke her ankle and was casted for 3+ months (they are on top floor with NO elevator) counted on him to take her to and from ALL her classes everyday, to breakfast, lunch and dinner and carry her up flights and flights of stair. Going on their 4th month. And if by chance he could not be there (had practice) he made arrangements to have someone else there to cover for him.</p>

<p>When he was home/or enroute home some of his classmates called him to figure out how they could get home (they had missed flights). He managed to solve most of their issues.</p>

<p>He writes to his great-grandmother twice a week in very large handwriting so she can read it out loud to her fellow nursing home neighbors. She waits for the mail for hours before it comes. He calls the same time every week so she knows when to expect his call. (his other siblings also call, each has a different day to call).</p>

<p>He managed to get himself certified at school to take out their loaner cars to drive into the city (not a fun drive by my standards) to tutor twice a week at the high school. And somehow manages to get others to go!!! Relecutantly during snow storms and mid-terms!!</p>

<p>I guess what I am trying to say is the opening of a door, offering a seat, yes ma’am no sir, table manners are on the “surface” nice. But what I really wanted to see in my boys was the ability to go out of their way, WAY out of their way to always do the right thing. Of course this was the son with many dates for one Prom so the girls who wanted to go with a “date” had one. It seemed to all work out!</p>

<p>I was most worried about this one because he is the most impetous, intense and at times forgetful of the 3 boys. His older brother is a born diplomat and has “gentleman” down to a science. </p>

<p>All 3 say what guides them through the day, how, what and why they do things is hearing my voice saying “Will I be proud of you?, what did you do today to make someone smile, to lift someone else’s burden, to make a difference?”</p>

<p>Having 2 sisters thrown into the mix with the 3 boys definitely helped. And being a single mom I was/still am tough on them. But again they know “to whom much has been given, much is expected.”</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Also, same thing goes when someone does something inappropriate and does not say ask to be excused. Just smile and say “You’re excused” and they’ll realize they forgot.</p>

<p>(Excuse me- I should have simply edited my previous post)</p>