<p>Kat-</p>
<p>I love your kittens! You have every reason to be proud.</p>
<p>Sax, I think it totally depends on the relationship. If it’s business, everyone is androgynous, with a few exceptions - I expect men to invite me to proceed first off the elevator; I expect the door to be held IF he’s the first one to it (if not, I’ll hold the door, unless we each have equal burdens of briefcase, laptop, etc.), he’ll pay the taxi, the restraurant tab, UNLESS I’m the project lead or the situation will profit my side more, etc. If it’s business in a public situation, I offer seats on public transportation to ANYONE who appears to need it more - can be male or female, or perhaps a young mother with a child, or even a pregnant woman. This sometimes provokes interesting chain reactions though - I’ll offer such a person a seat, and then a man will notice, and offer me HIS seat in reaction, and so on. I’ll also hold doors for just about anyone, but, this gets irritating sometimes as it will happen that 10 people walk through and no one has enough sense to know that it might be their “turn” to catch the door. </p>
<p>If it’s social/date, it all goes one way, I expect to be asked - for him to do all the calling; I expect him to plan the date, pick me up, hold doors, hold my chair, select the wine, pay the bill, escort me home, walk me to the door, etc. - no exceptions, ever. I also expect him to treat all other people with the same level of courtesy. This is non-negotiable, and I haven’t really ever had a social experience in recent years where this wasn’t the case. I am very thankful that there appears to be a very healthy population of true, legitimate gentleman, and I think differences in gender are cause for celebration.</p>
<p>Mom of four boys and latetoschools post makes me irritated. Women want it both ways. They want to be equals in the business world, gender shouldn’t be a factor. But while they are making equal money and have good paying jobs it’s the men who should be paying.
My sons will always offer to pay for Prom, homecoming etc. But I really wonder in this day and age why. Women want to be equals let them!</p>
<p>My son had it all worked out last year that his girlfriend was paying for prom. He didn’t want to go, and she did. I nixed that deal- it was HIS senior prom and I told the girl’s mother that we would be paying them back for the ticket! </p>
<p>I did manage to raise a daughter who is strong and independent but has impeccable manners. 50% aint bad.</p>
<p>I hold doors open for men and think it’s nice for men to hold doors open for me. I would never ever expect male colleagues to pay for my dinner. I won’t get offended if they offer. After the inevitable discussions sometimes they pay for me, and sometimes we each pay our own way, somehow I rarely argue my way into paying for them which really doesn’t seem right to me.</p>
<p>My first college boyfriend always paid, and I have to say it irritated me at the time as I was pretty sure my parents had more money than his did. He was extremely old fashioned however.</p>
<p>LFWB was pretty well mannered before he went to the Academy, but now his manners are on steroids. </p>
<p>Now, adult friends who he’s been on a first name basis with since he could talk are “Sir” and “Ma’am”. He stands up wehn anyone enters a room. He’s always held doors for people, so that’s not new. And now he is very attentive in conversations. especially with dotting peers of his grandparents.</p>
<p>I have a big building under construction. The fella at the gate sees me coming and gets my fluorescent jacket out and stands there waiting to help me slip it on. Very funny.</p>
<p>I make a point a meeting as many eyes as possible on my way through the site–with a “Hey, how ya doin’?” I learn as many names as possible so I can make it a “Hey Dean, how’s the setouts?” etc</p>
<p>Ii have made a big effort to teach my boys manners. I get lots of compliments from strangers, family and friends–and always have. For my part, I wish parents of girls wouldn’t let them come to my house dressed like streetwalkers.</p>
<p>I seriously would not know what to do if I was a guy today and therefore I don’t really know how to instruct my son when it comes to dating and manners. One women might be really angry at a gesture while another women would welcome it.</p>
<p>latetoschool, thanks for sharing your take on office manners.The holding the door open problem is pretty funny as I see this happening to my son all the time. He has at times held the door open for a great # of people with no one stepping in to take over.</p>
<p>and keymom…yes, I want equal pay for equal work but I also want my “date” to offer to buy dinner. Many men want to be providers…it is part of being a “man” to them. OOOOO…this is such a touchy subject :)</p>
<p>Son’s high-school true love, one of 3 girls, believed that the boy should pay. Always. Period. End of sentence and discussion.</p>
<p>I’ve been trying to raise our son to know that males and females are equally capable. PLUS she had a job in which she was earning much more than he was. PLUS he was responsible for paying for his car insurance and gas (she wasn’t). </p>
<p>Do I sound ticked?</p>
<p>Back in the dark ages of the 70’s we always split the bill. Now, here we are in two thousand whatever, and son has this Princess. His fist serious relationship, and she’s forever telling him how a “good boyfriend” should act. </p>
<p>Since he was usually broke, evenings were usually spent at our house watching a video–which was fine with me, but really!</p>
<p>Her response when he tried to discuss the subject: “I know you’re right, but I can’t help how I was raised.” I had occasion to mention the situation to her mother, whom I saw frequently, and she agreed with her daughter. It took a YEAR before Son made a big deal of it, and they began splitting expenses, except for proms and birthdays and such. Which meant they could go out more.</p>
<p>I am surprised to discover how much this still bothers me!</p>
<p>They have not seen each other since S left for school last August.</p>
<p>I think it’s okay for a guy to pay for a date when he invites the girl out. On the other hand, what is stopping the girl from reciprocating by buying tickets to something and inviting the guy? It seems to work best when both people are being generous and trying to please one another.</p>
<p>LOL, LFWBdad !</p>
<p>When S “went south” to school, I told him that I expected him to come home calling me ma’am and that he was to stand when I entered a room.</p>
<p>Ha!!! It’s a family joke now.</p>
<p>We have raised our son to hold doors for women, offer them seats, etc. It’s just common courtesy. </p>
<p>When my H came to my family’s for dinner as a plebe boyfriend, he literally cut his raw carrots. The ma’ams and sirs flowed freely that night.</p>
<p>I once asked a young lady to dinner. She asked if she could pay for half, saying that she’d found that if she did she was asked out twice as often. I married her.</p>
<p>Any courtesy is a freely given gift and something to be thankful for. But when courtesies are demanded they become privileges. Which is something most of the females replying to this thread seem to have either forgotten, or never knew.</p>
<p>My 16 1/2 yr old son is the most gentlemanly and polite male I have ever met. Everyone who meets him says the same thing…teachers, parents, employers, etc. And none of that has to do with how we raised him. I seriously don’t know how he turned out the way he did or why he is so…well…old-fashioned and downright prudish! My husband and I laugh about it in private (and my H sometimes gets annoyed and tells him to loosen up). It’s not that we don’t appreciate it, we just don’t know how to explain it.</p>
<p>TheDad-</p>
<p>Great!</p>
<p>My two teenage sons know they had better not belch at the dinner table until their mother and I do. :D</p>
<p>^^^^
;0)</p>
<p>10 char</p>
<p>My children have been raised largely in a multi-cultural environment and the rules for what is both ‘ladylike’ and ‘gentlemenly’ are not the same in all cultures, so we have fallen back on core elements of respect for self and others at all times- and what goes with that. I expect all my children to help without being asked to help, to use language that they would feel comfortable using with their grandparents or their grandchildren and to be mindful of how their behavior might be interpreted by others whose expectations are different than our own. I expect all my children to be able to sit at a dinner table or coffee table and have a reasonably engaging conversation with an adult they have just met. </p>
<p>I think there is a high level of ‘in your face’ behavior which is perpetuated by modern media and that this combined with the lack of time spent by busy parents having dinner with their children have seriously impacted the behaviors of some children, boys and girls, whom I know.</p>
<p>When D was about 6 years old she had a mixed-gender birthday party with lots of kids from school and the neighborhood. It was at a local health club, the kids swam in the pool for an hour, then had a room for pizza, cake and ice cream. After the pizza, my neighbor’s 2 sons were running around like banshees, crawling under the table, etc. Virtually all of the other kids were sitting in their chairs, talking and laughing. In a friendly voice I said to the banshees, “Only kids who are sitting in their chairs can get cake!” Their dad came over to me and said, “They’re boys. Cut them a break.” I stewed over that remark for years. I have a son, and my expectations for his manners are no different than for my daughter. Did this guy think boys are stupid and unable to understand the rules as well as girls? Has he never met a high-energy girl? And when he goes to business dinners, do the men throw rolls at each other while the women pat their mouths with napkins? AARRGGHH.</p>
<p>I should mention the banshees are in high school now and seem pretty well behaved. Somewhere along the line someone must have told them what society expected of them. I doubt it was their dad, though.</p>