Asians at W&M

bigflyerz · April 22, 2006, 11:47pm

How are the asian populations at W&M. From my calculation, the 7% asians are a tiny part of w&m, which translates to about 400 in undergrad = 100 in freshmen class. Any information is welcome, please share your opinion.

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 8:39am

If your calculations are correct, then you have your own answer. The asians that I see at William and Mary, seem to be having a great time. What is the purpose of your question? The number of minorities at any school is in direct relation to the number of qualified minorities who apply and if offered acceptance, choose to attend. Why is that such an issue??? At William and Mary, we are an accepting group of all diversity, asian, white, african american, gay, straight, those who party, those who don’t, greek, non greek, hard core students, those who chill, republican, democrat, northern southern…I just friggen don’t get it…William and Mary, nor any other school for that matter can do much of anything about the small populations of minorities at their school. I repeat, it’s in DIRECT relation to the number of QUALIFIED minority applicants, who are ACCEPTED and then CHOOSE to attend…It’s just a fact that most colleges have a larger number of caucasion students. What is so hard to understand about THAT???

TJED · April 23, 2006, 8:43am

pedsox, I hope you aren’t representing William and Mary as an Admissions Officer! lol

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 8:47am

One more thing…if you call ANY college, it is quite easy to get the minority statistics for each school; possibly even a breakdown. Once you have those figures at hand, then you can CHOOSE to apply or pass on that particular school. If a large asian population is very important to you, you can find the schools,most likely on the west coast, which have higher numbers. You could even choose a college in an asian country where you would have huge numbers of asians. This is all possible. If William and Mary’s asian population is too small for you, then don’t apply. This is EASY! Best of luck.

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 8:53am

Actually I am a freshman at William and Mary. This is just a college freshman’s opinion. Our convocation ceremony this year was all about the importance of diversity on campus as one of the biggest parts of the total learning experience. But I consider diversity to mean many things, not just the color of one’s skin or their nationality. I have to admit that I do get tired of some of the questions about how minorities fare at William and Mary. It is my observation that we all mix and are very accepting of each other. William and Mary is a school where you are free to be who you are. His question was “how is the asian population at William and Mary”…well, in my opinion, the asians that I see are having a GREAT time. Question answered. Get off this minority thing…as if the small numbers at any school are a reason to blame or question admissions at all.

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 9:36am

Consider this…(you can tell that I’m somewhat charged up about this topic in general), a minority applicant may be offered acceptance to a particular school with lower stats than an applicant who is not a minority. This is the way admissions try to bring an element of diversity to their school. So, maybe an asian applicant with a lower than normal GPA may be offered acceptance OVER a more qualified applicant who does not fit minority status. What else can a college do besides the normal recruitment procedures? It’s almost as if your question is looking to “blame” William and Mary for their low numbers of asians. Maybe you were accepted to William and Mary BECAUSE of your minority status. Look for blessings where you find them and don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. As I type this, I also want to convey that I don’t feel any predjudice, just baffled as to why these questions have not received their proper answer, which I consider mine to be, IMHO. OK, I’m finished!

TJED · April 23, 2006, 9:41am

pedsox, I was joking about the addmissions officer thing. Of course diversity means more than skin color/nationality, but being in the minority in any situation would make one want to know more about it , don’t you think? I believe bigflyerz was merely asking about it and frankly your initial response sounded harsh and a little hostile. If I misunderstood I apologize, but it seems in one breath you talk about how accepting the people at W&M are and in the next you jump down bigflyerz’s throat for asking. OK, I’m ready. Really let me have it now!

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 10:10am

Yes, I did appear to jump down bigflyerz’s throat for asking the puzzling asian question. Although my subsequent posts were an attempt to further explain myself, I think I did come across hostile and harsh and that was not my intention. If you look at other posts I made on this subject, you will see that my opinion (which is just that, an opinion) is very much the same across the board. I don’t want to reflect badly on William and Mary because my own opinion is strong on this subject. I guess basically I see first hand how well the asians and minorities mix at William and Mary and how important it is to all the students I’ve come in contact with, to accept everyone regardless of their differences. I don’t see a lot of segregation at W&M. I just think it’s a redundant question that bigflyerz already knew the answer to. I stand by my opinion on the subject but respect others opinions as well. Plus bigflyerz dissed our gym!!! And I told him that if he stayed out of that gym in high school, his weighted GPA would be higher than 3.7! This was a half joke/half serious comment.

TJED · April 23, 2006, 10:40am

pedsox, sounds good. Enough on the subject of minority applicants (even if this thread is about Asians at W&M). bigflyerz, stop dissing the gym at W&M!!! pedsox, what do you love about W&M? Are you from VA? Is the town too small, or do you find that there is enough to do off campus (especially if you don’t drink/smoke)? How is the “town/gown” situation? Does one ever feel in the minority for being oos? Also, if you don’t mind, what do you intend to major in? Thanks!

ICare · April 23, 2006, 10:50am

OP asked for honest opinion from anyone and pedsox did his part. I agree race should not matter in college admission and campus life - just be yourself. And it’s good to hear that students at W&M accept each other. However I hope, and I don’t think, he represents the majority of W&M student body.

pedsox: you were not somewhat charged up, you were HIGHLY charged up. But that’s ok 'cause you are young (freshman you said). And just so you know, if you did your fair share of research then you should’ve known that Asians are NOT considered minority in college addmission. In fact it’s almost the opposite. If all colleges follow the University of California System, most of the top 50 colleges in the U.S. would have much higher percentage of Asian student population than that of current figure.

Let’s have civil discussions on this forum and TRUELY accept each other. Peace.

pedsox · April 23, 2006, 4:10pm

ICare, please explain your 2nd paragraph with regards to what is considered minority status. I am interested in your comments and would like to have you explain to me, so that I will understand, how following UC’s system would change the numbers of Asian students in the top 50 colleges. Obviously I’m uniformed because I truly thought that Asian students were considered to be minorities. And how can it be that it’s “almost the opposite”. Why then is there such a small population of Asian students in most colleges? I honestly don’t understand. Peace out.

TJED: I’m going to relate my response based on living in Virginia and having a knowledge of some of Virginia’s colleges in general. I am happy at William and Mary and feel that there is always something to do here. If you are into the partying scene, then Greek is definitely the way to go. However most of the people I hang with do not drink or smoke and we are having good times. Williamsburg is about as boring as any other Virginia college town with the exception of VCU because of it’s close proximity to the city of Richmond. You have to ask yourself what kinds of things do you like to do? If you have grown up near a big city, you are going to be bored in Billsburg. But think about your high school experience. You get your fun from the clubs you join, the sports you play, the activities and passions you pursue, but most importantly, the good friends you make and hang out with. That’s the way it is here. As far as the town/gown thing…During the winter, it’s kind of chill here and the crowds die down. You can head to the Cheese Shop in relative peace. However Spring break and college tours are in full swing and this place is hopping big time with people doing the Wmsbrg thing. There are the typical college hangouts, restraunts and such who are accomodating to college students. You don’t have to go outside of the campus to find something fun to do. Get a Bush Gardens seasons pass and you’re all set (LOL!!). But who doesn’t have a great time with a bunch of buddies at Bush Gardens? As for what my major is…I’m still uncertain. The classes here are small, the profs are awesome, the food is decent, and the people are amazing. I’m working hard and studying a lot but I am NOT overwhelmed with the amount of work. Yes, my GPA is lower (OK, quite a bit lower) than it was in high school, but I am doing well. What is not to like about William and Mary?

bigflyerz · April 23, 2006, 5:35pm

Ok first of all, I am merely asking a question that I do not know of about the school. I have not attended the school and obviously don’t know much about it, that’s why this is a forum. Pedsox, I don’t understand why you are really trying to put me down with your comments. I am presuming you are a white male? Asians are minorities in the respect of race as a whole. But regarding to COLLEGE ADMISSIONS, Asians are definately NOT minorities, and even suffer from being considered Asian. Asians are not like African Americans or Hispanis is this regard to college admissions. For example, in a college that has the point system for undergrad admission, alumnis get +250, athletes get +250, African Americans get +150, Hispanics get +130, and Asians get -100. And you know how most asian students are, the dorky types. So obviously it’s NOT fair for Asians who study under the whips of their parents. Plus, I don’t think you know my situation, and just jumped to conclusion that I got into the school with a 3.7 because I’m Asian. Asian population isn’t as important to me as graeat education of w&m is concerned, but I hope everyone at W&M isn’t like the people in highschool, where the white kids only talk to white kids and soforth. I was just concerned with the small population at w&m which can translate to a small number of monorities, but if you would like to represent w&m, I would think that you contradicted yourself. I mean come on, you just said in your previous post that people at w&m and diverse and accept/appreciate diversity, but apparently your comments seemed more like you are unleashing your personal thoughts about minorities, and especially get very offended if a minority asks about the minority situation, which he or she has the right to do so. Why do you not admit that the weightroom is horrible, I’m sure you have been there, though I do have to say I loved the basketball courts. But like you said, it’s under renovation and I’m looking forward to all the new add-ons it will have by the end of the summer.

ICare · April 23, 2006, 8:47pm

pedsox: why asians are not considered minority and even worse are “secretly” discriminated against has been illustrated and explained by the experts.

From Heritage Foundation in June 1989:
<a href=“http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/EM240.cfm[/url]”>http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/EM240.cfm</a>

From National Review in June 2003:
<a href=“http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-kirsanow061903.asp[/url]”>http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-kirsanow061903.asp</a>

From Princeton University researcher in June 2005:
<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/77I23/index.xml?section=topstories[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/77I23/index.xml?section=topstories</a>

I HONESTLY believe you HONESTLY don’t understand this issue. However like I suggested to you on previous post if you do your own research you’ll get the answer. But hey who hasn’t made honest mistakes before?

pedsox · April 24, 2006, 6:40pm

I concede my ignorance on this subject as it applies to Asian-American’s. I had no idea…I found the National Review article to be the most informative, followed by the Princeton Review article which clearly explains WHY there is this sort of “reverse discrimination”. These articles explained the questions that I asked of you ICARE and I thank you for caring enough to inform me and probably quite a few others. I was thinking about how the field of music is dominated by Asians. Their natural talent and practice ethic is amazing. My younger brother is quite a talented pianist. He is a white male. There my brother sits waiting to compete, the lonely white boy, in a room full of talented, diciplined, Asians. I can’t help but wonder if my brother gets the benefit of being a minority in this field. He plays with the best of them. Anyway, I’ve learned something important and hopefully not at the expense of Bigflyerz, who really was just asking an innocent question. My apologies! PS. Our gym does suck! But hopefully not for long! LOL!

sunshinee · April 25, 2006, 4:07pm

I’m confused.
Are Asians considered a minority at W&M or no?

cavalier302 · April 25, 2006, 4:10pm

Clearly, if they’re not in the majority, they’re in the minority, though not an underrepresented minority. But there are still more of them at W&M than there are in the general population, so I don’t get what the problem is.

MissSuperFantastic · April 25, 2006, 4:53pm

When I visited W&M, I was pretty surprised by the diversity. There seemed to be a lot of black people, but very little Asians. My observation is skewed because I go to a school that’s about 30% Asian and 2% black, though. Hah. I’m going to go out on a limb and say if you are looking for a substancial Asian population, W&M is probably not the best place to find that. Anyways, I can see why the original poster was interested. I’m gay, and when I look into a school I definitely take into account the attitude of the campus towards homosexuality (and realized that in college, after 2 beers, everyone is gay! LOL) and the number of gay kids on campus. Mostly because I’d like there to be a dating scene (admitted with some shame). If I were Asian I’d probably be on the lookout for hot Asians, too. Although I’m pretty sure the original poster was not interested in the minority status at the school for that reason alone or at all. But perhaps. :p.

Of course that is a very, very, very small part of choosing a college/university. Very small. W&M offers a great education and seems to have a very accepting and friendly student body. That’s 110% more important in the decision-making process.

ICare · April 25, 2006, 8:25pm

sunshinee, asian americans are a minority group but are NOT granted minority status (or URM) as far as college admission is concerned. This holds true not just at W&M but as much as I know at any college in the U.S. In fact being asian puts you in disadvantage in college admission except in California where the state supreme court struck down the AA and since then no particular racial groups are given favourable treatment in CA. For details please check the reports by clicking the links I provided above.

ICare · April 25, 2006, 9:15pm

cavalier302, you are entitled to your opinion although I disagree. I’ll list the percentages of asian students at the top universities:

Harvard 17%
Princeton 13%
Yale 14%
Penn 18%
Duke 13%
Stanford 24%
Caltec 31%
MIT 28%
Columbia 16%
Dartmouth 13%
Northwestern 17%
Cornell 16%
JHU 19%
Brown 14%
Chicago 15%
UC Berkeley 41%
UCLA 37%
UVA 11%
W&M 7%
VTech 7%

Why asian students get into top colleges in higher percentage than their overall population suggests? Because they are among the most talented and hard-working groups. Yet according to the experts’ reports their percentages would be even higher if no favourable treatment is given to certain groups. The 3 top VA colleges are clearly at the bottom in terms of asian student population percentage although UVA is doing a better job in recent years. Whether this is a problem or fair-play the history will judge.

soccerguy315 · April 26, 2006, 1:06am

ICare - 15 of the 20 schools you listed are private, and therefore are not obligated to take students from their state. The other two public schools outside of virginia, are in california. According to the 2000 census, California has three times as many Asians than Virginia PERCENTAGE WISE. So let’s compare:

VA: 7,078,515 residents x .037 Asians = 261,905 Asians
CA: 33,871,648 residents x .109 Asians = 3,602,010 Asians

CA Asians/VA Asians = 13.75

California has almost 14 times the number of Asians as Virginia.

Now, I don’t know where the Asian population percentages you got came from, because collegeboard only has them Asian and Pacific Islander combined, but I will use your percentages:

Berkeley: 23,447 undergrads x .41 Asian percentage = 9,613 Asian students

UCLA: 24,811 undergrads x .37 Asian percentage = 9,180 Asian students

UVA: 13,387 undergrads x .11 Asian percentage = 1,473 Asian students

W&M: 5,540 undergrads x. .07 Asian percentage = 388 Asian students

VTech: 21,534 undergrads x. .07 Asian percentage = 1507 Asian students.

CA Students: 48,258
CA Asians: 18,793
VA Students: 40,470
VA Asians: 3,368
VA Asians adjusted: 4,016

In order to equalize the populations of the schools, I will divide 48,258 (CA) by 40,470 (VA), which gives me 1.19. I will then multiply 1.19 by 3,368 (the number of Asians in VA). This gives me 4,016 Asians in VA schools, if the school populations were equal.

Now, since we are comparing state schools, I will multiply the adjusted number of Asians at VT/UVA/WM by 13.75, because that is the ratio of Asians in California to Asians in Virginia. For every Asian in Virginia schools, there should be 13.75 Asians in California schools, if we extrapolate Asians to Asian students. Granted this is probably slightly faulty logic because there are probably not an equal number of Asian parents and Asian students, but this would we would encounter the same thing in Virginia, and the population of any school does not come only from one state.

4016 (adjusted VA Asian student population) x 13.75 (extrapolated ratio of Asian students in CA compared to Asian students in VA) = 55,220.

Therefore, the number of Asian students that should be expected in California schools based on the Virginia Asian student population would be 55,220, or 2.938 times the actual number.

If youd like to reference that number, you will find if you divide 10.9 (the percent of CA population that is Asian) by 3.7 (the percent of VA population that is Asian), you come out with 2.945, which is quite close to 2.938.

If you want to look at it the other way, the expected ratio of VA Asian students to CA Asian students should be [Asian Population VA]/[Asian Population CA] = .072. This means 4016 (VA Asian students, adjusted) / 18,793 (CA Asian students) = .214. .214/.072 = 2.968, which is pretty close to 2.945 and 2.938. The number of VA Asian students, based on CA numbers, should be roughly 1/3 of what it actually is.

In conclusion, based on CA Asian students at CA schools, you would expect roughly 1/3 as many Asians in VA schools than there actually are. And based on VA Asian students in VA schools, you would expect roughly 3 times as many Asians in CA schools. You would expect CA to have 13.75 times the number of Asians that VA has, when in fact, CA only has roughly 5.5 times as many (18,793/3,368 = 5.58)

You will also notice that the country is 3.6% Asian, so logically, 3.6% of the college population at EVERY school should be Asian. However, the top schools have a lot more Asians. Asians are extremely overrepresented in college. This is because of the immigration patterns in Asian cultures, and domestic lifestyle regarding the importance of school in those cultures. The Asian population in the US is already the top X% of Asian families (for the most part), and therefore, it is unfair to compare the top 5% (number pulled out of nowhere, for an example) of Asian students who are all in the US, to the 100% of US students who are in the US. I do not think those 5% of Asians are any stronger applicants than the top 5% of the white population.

*California Schools refers to UC Berkeley and UCLA
*Virginia Schools refers to the University of Virginia, William and Mary, and Virginia Tech
*Some numbers were possibly rounded slightly inconsistently.

Asians at W&M

Related topics

CONNECT WITH US