<p>
</p>
<p>Glad that the student’s loan debt was forgiven, but as the parent of an Aspie, very depressing with respect to future career prospects.</p>
<p>Hmmm… interesting. I want to say more about this but am going to have to mull it over to decide what I think, I am having mixed feelings.</p>
<p>I can say this, though… The people at my work notice my aspie traits and they just say that I am “very focused,” referring to my slight lack of affect, and occasionally they’ll say I am “blunt” but that’s generally only when I am trying to be funny and it is appreciated-- they like me. I think they like those parts of me, even though they don’t know what they really are. My aspie issues have been less of a problem at the office than I thought they’d be. It sounds like the woman in the OP was very, very seriously disabled… but not all of us are, as you know. The outlook may not be so bleak for most of us.</p>
<p>Her entire life is depressing and I suspect she used school loans to live.</p>
<p>I can certainly relate. But, I will say that aspies come in all shapes and sizes, just because she could not hold a job, does not mean that another could not.</p>
<p>Loans for things like online unaccredited PhD programs should not be guaranteed by the government or protected like student loans to “real” programs. You also have to wonder about schools like Towson and Baltimore Law admitting (and in one case giving a degree to) a student who seems so low-functioning.</p>
<p>Please understand i am not saying they shouldn’t admit students with Aspergers–but if this woman was so hampered by her condition, on what credentials basis were they admitting her, and how was she functioning to complete programs?</p>
<p>I’m curious what she was really like on a day to day basis. They said she basically crumpled when asked seemingly innocuous questions, but I don’t think any questions are innocuous in that situation… I am very high functioning and I’d probably not appear that way at a hearing to get debt like that excused, either. That isn’t to say she’s not severely disabled, I think she must be, but I do wonder what the whole story is on this poor woman. She really got into trouble.</p>
<p>I am feeling a bit hung up on this because, even though I think this may very well be fair and necessary, there are so many students with severe disabilities and big debt who aren’t ever going to be able to pay it back, and it doesn’t matter-- it seems the attitude is if you are abled enough to get accepted to college, you are abled enough to pay for it. What made this woman different? Maybe her age? I thought disability being considered in student loan forgiveness refers to people who become disabled after the fact, but she’s been disabled her whole life… it’s not like this caught her off guard. </p>
<p>So I guess my “mixed feelings” are that I think this was 100% the right thing to do, and that this woman needed this, but I find it curious that this actually happened. I am critical not because I don’t agree with the ruling but because I am (pleasantly) surprised, and a little bit perplexed. I wouldn’t have anticipated this much sympathy for this sort of plight, it seems highly unusual to me.</p>
<p>It does seem to be a slippery slope here. Where do you draw the line with this sort of thing?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. The court showed a great deal of compassion, and probably a good dose of practicality, given that she is 63. I hope, however, that the headlines alone don’t lead to an attitude of “if a person has Asperger’s, they can’t be a lawyer.” </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>She must be pretty severely disabled. It doesn’t say “lawyer job” …sounds like any job.</p>
<p>I wonder when she was diagnosed. Aspergers wasn’t added to the DSM until 1994.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seems impossible. When you take out a student loan, you aren’t promising that you can make a living in the field and to my knowledge, no one makes that determination. What about the person with a bad voice who gets a student loan to be a vocal performance major? </p>
<p>Who is to say that any education won’t be helpful to a person? The person who presents exactly like Rain Man may use his legal education to come up with a fabulous computerized legal research program.</p>
<p>Now if she is due any SS it won’t be docked to repay her school loans. Good timing. She may never have worked but it could be coming from a spouse or SSD.</p>
<p>I do think education loans should be discharged in bankruptcy in extreme circumstances, and this seems to be one.</p>
<p>But I’ve got to say, that’s a pretty big debt, especially if she’s as impaired as it appears.</p>
<p>“Seems impossible. When you take out a student loan, you aren’t promising that you can make a living in the field and to my knowledge, no one makes that determination.”</p>
<p>At least with law schools, admissions committees do think about this, and rightly IMHO.</p>
<p>It’s professional education. If a school has reason to think that the applicant will not be eligible or able to pass the bar, or will be unemployable, they worry. This comes up, for example, when a convicted felon applies, and probably will not be allowed to sit for any bar. The schools are judged (again rightly IMHO) on how many of their graduates pass the bar and find legal jobs. It does happen that a bar-ineligible or unemployable applicant wants to attend law school for the intellectual adventure or to advance a career where bar passage is unnecessary. In that case, the school should have a good talk with the applicant about his/her goals and whether borrowing to attend the school is reasonable.</p>
<p>This verdict annoys me. I find it very interesting that this person could produce enough work to complete these degrees but could not work. I think it was wrong to even extend her this much credit for college. No one can pay back that much debt when they don’t even get a high school diploma until 39. We are not taking 34k. We are talking 340k in students loans for a person that would never even begin to pay it back. We could have educated atleast 3 people with that money. Terrible decision imo. Opens the doors to too many.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>To work as an attorney, a client or a firm or a company has to be willing to hire you. The judge is an attorney and knows tons of other attorneys. My assumption is that by observing her, the judge came to the conclusion that it was highly unlikley that anyone would hire her.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No requirement she has to work as an attorney. </p>
<p>As you said prevously, it didn’t appear at the trial that she could work at ANY job. But, she could get accepted at several colleges, fill out reams of paperwork for financial aid, and get multiple degrees.</p>
<p>Perhaps others filled out the reams of FAid paperwork for her, not this woman herself. Her condition could have worsened over the decades as well. There are unfortunately more people with 6 figure ed loans than there used to be–wonder how many of them will ever be fully repaid & when?</p>
<p>She dropped out of law school and then went on to get a masters and a PHD. The woman was plenty smart. She kept deferring until she was so old she could get the courts to side with her. They only did it because it was stupid to even try to get any payment out of her. At 63 she was eligible for SS, so there was very little chance the creditors were going to see any money anyway. Atleast now, the creditors can write it off their books. I am sorry but this whole thing is all kinds of crazy and wrong. Who was the person that got the credit line anyway. She could not have had that great of credit on her own without very good job or a cosinger. Really does not make any sense to me.</p>
<p>This case is not about aspergers imo. This case is about how some stupid lenders lent money and should not have done it. Why would anyone lend so much money to anyone at the age. Even with a great paying job there is no way she could pay it back when she was in her 60’s when she got her last degree. Someone has some explaining to do. Honestly, they should have left both Todd and the lenders on the hook. The court did them both a favor and left us with the bill.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I thought all schools did this to some extent, because doesn’t the default rate for a school’s past students affect whether (and under what conditions; i.e. interest rates) current and future students at that school can obtain loans? Or am I wrong about this?</p>
<p>A relative of mine obtained student loans (not as much as the woman in the story - mid 5 figures) for a degree in philosophy in her mid-50s. Yeah, if I was the lender, I’d say “okay, when you graduate at 60, are you going to be able to pay off that loan with your ‘entry level philosopher’ job?”</p>
<p>Have you ever met anyone that you think that, other than as a part of some special program, you figure that no employer would ever hire? They are of average intelligence or better, but are just “out there”, or have very poor hygiene, or an inability to talk to people. I guess if you’re wealthy and unemployable you get the education, but if you’re poor and unemployable, you don’t? It calls for folks making some significant decisions.</p>
<p>There’s always a job one can do. You don’t have to have good eye contact and interpersonal skills to work. Aspies are particularly good at some things because of their ability to focus. If you can take that many college classes and do well enough to get a degree, you have a high enough ability and intelligence to do something. Then again, getting someone who is willing to hire you may be an obstacle, though there are places that give priority to those who have disabilities.</p>