6 people died. I, for one, am not relieved about anything. I am sickened that there was yet again more needless bloodshed.
Thank you for your wise and thoughtful words, @musicprnt.
Let’s try to stick to facts not fear or prejudice.
I feel this is a very disconnected/hysterical view of what’s really happening. First of all, you don’t speak for me. Period. I do not have a negative view of Muslims. One of my closest friends is a first generation Muslim American for crying out loud, and we get along wonderfully. I have absolutely zero problems with Muslim people and would treat them the same as I treat my own family.
Regardless, it is human nature to speculate based on current events and trends happening around the world. Unless one has been living under a rock the past 20 years, one would know that vast majority of terror attacks were carried by radicalized Islamic groups, not radicalized Christian/White supremacist groups. That is simply an irrefutable fact.
Zobroward, are you still so confident that it’s an “intra-Muslim” incident, as opposed to to an anti-Muslim crime?
“Unless one has been living under a rock the past 20 years, one would know that vast majority of terror attacks were carried by radicalized Islamic groups, not radicalized Christian/White supremacist groups. That is simply an irrefutable fact.”
NO, it isn’t. At least in our country. Check out this video which contains facts from the Cato Insitute, a conservative think tank, lest you think there is bias delivered by a journalist well-versed in Muslim and terrorist history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWFNm-wBVG8
It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone would make this statement about an attack on a mosque. You would think “intra Islamic” attacks are an everyday thing in the West. The chances were 999,999 out of 1,000,000 that the perpetrator was a white fascist well nourished by the alt right media (or alt Reich media as my son calls it). And so he is.
It’s a reminder that, in addition to “radical Islamic terrorism,” the world has also seen, and continues to see, plenty of “radical Christian terrorism,” “radical Jewish terrorism,” “radical Hindu terrorism,” and – hard as it is to believe – “radical Buddhist terrorism,” including just this weekend in Myanmar.
He has been charged:
Yet another home-grown radical terrorist attack.
“I feel this is a very disconnected/hysterical view of what’s really happening. First of all, you don’t speak for me. Period. I do not have a negative view of Muslims. One of my closest friends is a first generation Muslim American for crying out loud, and we get along wonderfully” I hate to say this, but are you aware that when interviewed, a lot of the people turning firehoses on blacks during the civil rights era and those who supported Jim Crowe would say “I don’t hate blacks, some of my best friends are black?”. As far as not having a negative view of muslims, then why would you speculate that the mosque shooting was an intra muslim feud? It isn’t like we have seen in the US or Canada a raft of Muslim on Muslim violence (overseas, yes, but not here), so why did you even speculate that?
." I have absolutely zero problems with Muslim people and would treat them the same as I treat my own family."
Most people on an individual basis are fine, but that doesn’t mean someone who can treat a muslim colleague or friend ‘as the way they treat their own family’ doesn’t harbor anti muslim bias. The idea that someone harboring anti whatever bias is the classic racist who won’t associate with group X, treats them like crap, is a stereotype, the fact is a lot of people who can cite friends who are X, can also be people who harbor suspicions about the group and as a group, wants to cast aspersions on them, restrict them, and so forth. I would bet a lot of the people who support the extreme stuff we see right now in terms of Muslims in the US, when asked, would say “I know people who are Muslim and respect them”, but then want a blanket ban in Muslim immigration or whatnot, it is a lot easier to harbor ill will to a group than an individual, because individuals are real while a group is often an imaginery ‘them’ we don’t know.
“Regardless, it is human nature to speculate based on current events and trends happening around the world. Unless one has been living under a rock the past 20 years, one would know that vast majority of terror attacks were carried by radicalized Islamic groups, not radicalized Christian/White supremacist groups. That is simply an irrefutable fact.”
sigh. This is a classic example of what is called “alt facts”, it is about as non specific a statement as you can get, so it is hard to pin down. If you are talking worldwide, then you might have a point, if you are talking the US, what you write fails the test of facts. Part of the problem is that what many people consider terrorism is not how law enforcement looks at it, and that is part of the problem. The people who claim muslims carry out the majority of terrorist attacks in the US are playing fast and loose with the facts. They exclude things which law enforcement considers terrorism, like when a right wing wacko kills an abortion doctor or bombs and abortion clinic, they exclude Dylan Roof going into the church in Charleston killing black congregation members, they ignore a white supremacist who shot up a Sikh temple in Wisconsin (probably figuring, ironically, that the people there were Muslims because Sikhs wear turbans), all that is left out, and when those are included the number of terrorist incidents, even with all the high profile cases in the past several years, they are outnumbered, it is just that we don’t hear about the abortion clinic being bombed, the abortion doctor shot, the sikh gas station attended killed because someone thought they were muslim, those are usually categorized as “hate crimes” yet many of them were planned attacks designed to frighten or intimidate people.
http://usuncut.com/news/guess-which-terrorist-group-killed-most-americans/ is one link I found that talks about it, but I have heard the same kind of numbers elsewhere, I am not all that certain of the think tank they cite.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/24/majority-of-fatal-attacks-on-us-soil-carried-out-b/
Sure, if you use numbers, 9/11 outweighs them all, but it is an outlier. The above only goes to 2015, so is a bit outdated, but that is a right wing paper and they are saying the same thing.
That doesn’t mean that Islamic terrorists are not a threat, but the reality is the threat of terrorism is on the rise in general and a lot of it is not Islamic. Some of it is uber left wing groups as well, there are anti animal cruelty activists and environmental activists and the like who have gone off the deep end and killed and whatnot. I am trying to find an FBI citing on broken up terrorist plots, and a large percentage of them were non Islamic, mostly white supremacist and Christian extremist groups. The other factor is the media’s fault, if someone shoots up a sikh temple or someone bombs an abortion clinic and people die or an abortion doctor is killed, it is treated as an ordinary crime and reported on page 56 of the paper and maybe get 10 seconds on a broadcast news; a muslim shoots up an office and kills 5 people, and it will be the headline news for the next week, in the papers, on the blogs, and yep, on here, too, as “Islamic terrorism strikes again”.
Keep in mind that the second biggest terrorist attack in US history besides 9/11 was done by white supremacists, ie Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.
Here’s the Wiki page on violent US Terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#1990.E2.80.9399
Anyone have a better reference? Anyway, according to that, around half of the violent terrorism acts here since 2000 were committed by Muslims. That’s a high rate considering the Muslim population here.
BTW, I added “violent” because the FBI list of domestic terrorism includes “softer” terrorism in its definition (tree spiking, arson, vandalism etc. from Leftist groups like the ELF and ALF).
@musicpnt -
The link referenced leads to the following report:
The report you linked claims that there have been 94 jidadist killings since 9/11 compared to 50 killings by right-wing white terrorists, or nearly a two to one ratio. Also, by focusing on the killings, the report ignores those injured. The Fort Hood killer injured 32 people, and the Boston Bombings had 280 injuries. Comparatively, domestic terrorism produced far fewer injuries.
The report does list 5 left-wing white terrorist killings, but it does not address the numerous targeted killings of police during this time span which could be characterized as left-wing terrorism.
Claims that Islamic terrorism doesn’t measure up to all the other kind does make you curious as to the metrics. Questions as to who, what, where, when, etc. Followed the link and tried to find the answer to the most important question of all… this…
… and didn’t find criteria or anything that looked like it.
Hard to say but… either ‘usuncut’ expects readers to look harder for their source material or maybe they just don’t bother themselves to look at all.
@droppedit Did you watch the video I linked? Those attacks aren’t linked to the countries being targeted by the executive order.
But I just love /sarcasm/ how this thread about a violent attack on a place of worship by a non-muslim has been turned into a thread condemning Muslims by a handful of posters instead of expressing remorse for the victims and their families and for discrimination on a group of people based on their religion.
What’s next, revisiting the crusades?
I attended a vigil at the Univ. of Toronto tonight. These vigils took place across the country and, as awful as the reason for them is, I have to say that it was a lovely memorial to these men. Leaders from Christian, Muslim, and Jewish faiths all spoke, as did the Mayor of Toronto. There were hundreds of people there, of all ages, all faiths, and all ethnicities, a beautiful representation of all that is good in Canada. Holding on to that goodness is what I feel tonight, despite how very difficult it has been recently. Each morning, my daughter tells my granddaughter as they start their day at school, “be kind”. It’s a lesson that I wish was more common.
Zinhead, I don’t see Dylan Roof on that report you cite. I don’t see the Sikh temple shooter or the abortion clinic murderers there. If I’m right, the website is worthless. Also, what were the “left-wing terrorist killing”? I don’t see them.
I actually regretted posting this less than a half hour after I did. I knew who would come on here and what it would devolve into.
My instinct to inform got the better of me. I too often assume that the ugliness in people will stay away when innocent lives have been lost.
The problem with posting these threads immediately after the event is everyone wants to speculate on the motives of the perpetrators. It usually takes law enforcement days to weeks to conduct a thorough investigation.
Yes, and that speculation includes some of the news networks and even the White House:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/fox-news-quebec-city-mosque-attack-right-wing-shooter
Guess it depends on what news source you frequent. Those that report facts or those that report “alternative facts”. Guess we know where some here go to first.