Thank you, carolinamom, I definitely will.
It’s not meant to be a total purge.
Apple says it is working with developers to get nonoffensive games which depict the Confederate flag reinstated.
Wow, that Southern Avenger statement is powerful.
One of the problems with tackling racism is that the nature of the beast has transformed over the last couple of decades in a way that makes it harder to grasp and bring down. You used to be able to use the n-word, overtly deny jobs, etc. Now the racism is not overt. It’s lurking under the surface like the oil in the Gulf, hurting the fish in the water but keeping the beaches looking clean. In this climate, there are many people who don’t think they’re tinged with racism, all the while seeing a young black man on a street as inherently scarier and more threatening than an identically-dressed white man.
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/8624209-74/national-confederate-park#axzz3e6mrCtQD
The National Park Service had asked the concessionaires who ran the gift shops at Civil War battlefields to remove the Confederate flag. The foundation at Gettysburg said ‘no’.
And shops in the town of Gettysburg will still sell the Confederate flag. As one restaurant owner said:
Keith Petters, 30, of Gettysburg bought the downtown restaurant in 2012 and has topped burgers named after Union and Confederate generals with the appropriate flags since. He’s received two angry phone calls since the Charleston shooting, and someone came into the restaurant before it opened Tuesday to demand the flags’ removal.
“If it’s that offensive to them, then they should find someplace else to eat,” said Petters, arms covered in tattoos and wearing a backwards ball cap. “Because I put a Confederate flag in a freaking’ cheeseburger doesn’t mean I support slavery or anything that happened in Charleston.”
I found this interesting, and very sad. It’s an animated graphic of all the slave ship crossings. For all that came to the US, there were far more heading to the Caribbean and Brazil.
And that, my dear CCers, is where we have our Afro-Latinos and Caribbeans. To those who have traveled through South America and the Caribbean, there are plantations and slave sites that have been preserved to this date. Might even get some good pirate history, too. 
"The National Park Service had asked the concessionaires who ran the gift shops at Civil War battlefields to remove the Confederate flag. The foundation at Gettysburg said ‘no’.
And shops in the town of Gettysburg will still sell the Confederate flag. As one restaurant owner said:
Keith Petters, 30, of Gettysburg bought the downtown restaurant in 2012 and has topped burgers named after Union and Confederate generals with the appropriate flags since. He’s received two angry phone calls since the Charleston shooting, and someone came into the restaurant before it opened Tuesday to demand the flags’ removal.
“If it’s that offensive to them, then they should find someplace else to eat,” said Petters, arms covered in tattoos and wearing a backwards ball cap. “Because I put a Confederate flag in a freaking’ cheeseburger doesn’t mean I support slavery or anything that happened in Charleston.” "
You know, to me that feels different. It’s at least in the context of discussing / memorializing the war.
I can't imagine calling a hamburger shop to complain about the flags he sticks in his burgers. I agree with him....if you don't want to be offended by seeing *that *flag, don't eat there. And of course the flags in a theme restaurant in Gettysburg don't say anything about the owner's views on slavery or racism.
But fly that flag on your front porch, or your pickup truck, or bedeck yourself in confederate flag shirts and hats and belt buckles etc. and you are saying something about your views. And they are noxious backward views. The flag has been taken over by hate groups....that's what it stands for now.
Not Aunt Jemima! They’ll be coming for Uncle Ben, next.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/jul/30/italy-racism-cecile-kyenge-esterofilia
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/15/ignorant-racists-italy-cecile-kyenge
The view that racism will not end, ever, but the tolerance of it is what should and will end, is what I hold.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/02/14/divided-we-fall-intolerance-europe-puts-rights-risk
Also:
http://history-of-hinduism.blogspot.com/2008/10/swastika.html
Would a person with Hindu beliefs be banned from using a swastika in Germany? Even if it was not in the Nazi color and configuration?
http://www.hinduisminfo.com/2008/12/what-does-swastik-symbol-mean.html
I am also sadly in the camp who thinks that all this flag brouhaha is ignoring the hate behind it, and ignoring that hate can take many forms. I am also interested in what other countries that had civil wars do about the “losers” - do they ignore them, do they mock them, or are very few actually “wars of secession”?
The swastika was a sacred symbol in Navaho mythology and they sadly put it away after it was so thoroughly corrupted by Hitler.
TatinG, there is simply no comparison between calling for the state to remove something and calling for a private company to remove something. The marketplace dictates the latter. God bless capitalism.
Technically, the Hindu swastika faces in the opposite direction from the Nazi swastika. But I doubt that most people are sufficiently aware of the difference to be able to tell them apart.
Thank you, Bay, for that bit of information, no doubt delivered from within the bowels of your compassion for my edification and enlightenment. Indeed, now I know of “a single African American” who apparently advocates for the removal of the U.S. flag in a speech (though what he actually said, was “We need to put the American flag down.”). I guess that accounts for why there immediately occurred a ground-swell of support from within that borg-like entity called “the black community”, with so many of us taking to the streets in support of such a notion. I suppose that’s why I’ll now be duty bound to stop flying mine from the my front porch on Memorial Day, Veteran’s Day, and regrettably, the upcoming 4th of July. I suppose I need to phone my parents, and siblings as well, and inform them that, though they are veterans who served this country proudly, the flying of the U.S. flag is now strictly verboten, not on government property, and most certainly not from our own homes. Because Louis said so, and we all listen to Louis… 8-|
Utilizing that marvel of search engine technology, Goggle, no doubt you’ll be able to unearth other blacks as well who have spoken disparagingly of the U.S. flag (some singer other other no longer prominent on the charts, or a comedian, or talk show host). I have faith in your commitment. Don’t be surprised, however, if you receive far more hits of white Americans calling for the removal and destruction of the stars and stripes (as well as many more photos depicting them burning that sacred emblem) than you will find of blacks doing the same.
That’s what happens when you post on CC that someone else’s ideas are not “legitimate” because you don’t know anyone who feels that way. People will direct you to a source that corroborates their point.
When racism is covert (as most of it is these days in the US), that also means that it is difficult to tell whether a specific incidence of poor treatment is due to racism or some other cause. In some cases, patterns may be found statistically out of large samples, or artificial tests (like matched pair studies) can reveal racism, but that still does not prove or disprove racism in specific incidents.
In many cases, the countries are rather politically repressive in general, and may be more overtly racist as well. Other grievances that led to the civil war often remain unresolved. Examples:
- Sri Lanka: treatment of the Tamil minority by the government has not been good after the defeat of the LTTE (which was even more noxious than the government), at least until the surprise electoral defeat of the incumbent president this year.
- Iraq: after the failed Shia rebellion of 1991, repression of the Shia majority continued during Saddam Hussein's rule. After the defeat of the Sunni-based insurgencies in the late 2000s by recruiting Sunni allies, the Shia-majority government threw away the success by ruling in a more sectarian manner, allowing Daesh to find support more easily.
- Former Yugoslavia: "ethnic cleansing" entered the common vocabulary.
- Daesh (Islamic State): brutal treatment of political opponents and religious minorities in territory that it controls.
- USSR: it was not good for opponents of the Communists after their victory in 1917.
- Bangladesh: successfully revolted from and seceded from Pakistan in 1971, but brutal actions by loyalists during the war are still political topics to this day.
- Indonesia: Aceh rebellion ended with a peace deal after heavy tsunami damage, but grievances remain unresolved. West Papua still has significant pro-independence activism, including some politically motivated violence.
Funny that, isn’t it—how people react to feeling the legitimacy of their arguments are being dismissed. My point in saying I personally knew of no AfAms who advocated for the removal of the US flag from government buildings, was in response to an argument I perceived (perhaps erroneously) you were trying to make about the amount of deference that should be shown to offended viewers of the CBF. In citing the 6 students so offended by the US flag that they were supposedly able to have it removed from their campus, it appeared to me that you were comparing the outrage of AfAms over the CBF to the absurd grievance of those students, and positing that the AfAm viewpoint should be seen as having no greater legitimacy than that which most of us afforded the viewpoint of those college students. My point was that a minority so few in number (and so fringe in their politics) as to have fingers remaindered if one used two hands to count them, hardly stands up as a legitimate comparison when arguing how seriously AfAms should be taken concerning the CBF on state property.
Having said that, Bay, if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, I apologize.