But here’s the thing, though. As someone who grew up in the North, the idea that there was some “we” that were the “winners” and some “they” that were the “losers” NEVER EVER ENTERED MY MIND. Because we were all Americans, and that was stuff in the history books. The same way that when I speak to colleagues in the UK, I don’t conceptualize us as the winners and them as the losers based on the events of 230 years ago.
Sorry. From my vantage point, it’s some people in the South who keeps bringing up that they were the losers and feeling sorry for themselves over it. I don’t even understand “the South will rise again.” Huh? You’re already a full part of this country; wasn’t that decided in 1865? What do you need to “rise” for? Or against?
" you read the opinion piece I linked? I think the black college prof who wrote it was being serious. She thinks Aunt Jemima is a racist trademark."
And she’s entitled to that opinion. And she can vote with her pocketbook by not purchasing Aunt Jemima and by urging others to do the same if she is so inclined. However, that has nothing, nada, to do with a STATE GOVERNMENT flying an offensive symbol over its courthouse.
That’s probably because you are from the North, and weren’t raised with parents or grandparents who shared how things used to be and how they were treated by their conquerors. Yours seems a rather limited perspective, considering that a lot of different things happened in different areas of our country.
And she’s entitled to that opinion. And she can vote with her pocketbook by not purchasing Aunt Jemima and by urging others to do the same if she is so inclined. However, that has nothing, nada, to do with a STATE GOVERNMENT flying an offensive symbol over its courthouse.
Actually, no. The Patent and Trademark office can deny trademark rights to those it deems racist or offensive, as they recently did with the Washington Redskins. So the government is involved.
Critiques of the Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben trademarks are complicated today because the images were revised some years ago. I think that the rice company went so far as to create a biography for “Uncle Ben” whice described him as the CEO of some company. They got rid of the busboy jacket and replaced it with the typical business suit. With Aunt Jemima, they dolled her up to look like Oprah, discarding the “handkerchief head” icon. LOL.
And ya know, most Black folks had no opinion about Aunt Jemima, and a lot of people NEVER used the Uncle Ben brand of rice. We were a Mrs. Butterworth household ourselves.
“That’s probably because you are from the North, and weren’t raised with parents or grandparents who shared how things used to be and how they were treated by their conquerors.”
Really? Anyone living today had parents alive during the Reconstruction? Oh good grief. This seems like a deliberately-nurtured story of oppression, here. My grandfather emigrated from (Russia-controlled) Poland in 1920 and didn’t whine about the oppression of the Tsar!
And “conquerors”? Get a grip. Stop fighting the Civil War, already. it’s over. You guys lost. Your cause was not a noble one. Your glory days were built on something terrible. That’s ok - you’re not responsible for what your ancestors did. We thought you’d all grown up by now. But keep smarting over how terribly you were treated during the Reconstruction and maybe we’ll all forget how terribly SLAVES were treated under you.
I’ve got to agree with Pizzagirl here. Bay, I think you’ve placed too much currency in the word “conquerors.” The defeated South was never subject to conquest. Quite the opposite. Lincoln welcomed the rebels back with open arms (literally allowing them to retain their weapons). And any southern whites whom were disenfranchised did not lose their rights for long. All most had to do was to swear an oath to the Union and lots of them (Democrats and former secessionists) participated in the Reconstruction state legislatures. Finally, can we talk about the fact that thousands of white antebellum southerners wanted no part of secession, most particularly non-planters in the mountain South, like those counties of Virginia that broke off and formed the State of West Virginia. And the folks in Kentucky and North Carolina, the rebel states that returned to the Union before the others. No doubt life was hard in the deep and rural south during and after the war, but remember that prior to and after the war the South was the poor part of America and some of the southern ruling class were happy to keep it that way well into the middle of the 20th Century. There was no northern "conquest.’
I don’t speak for the South, so please don’t blame them for my comments that you don’t like. I was speculating about people in general holding on to historical transgressions when they were on the “losing” side. It would be nice to hear from some Southerners, because once again I find this thread dominated by Northerners telling us how Southerners are allowed to think and feel.
You have/u heard from southerners, Bay. But if you are looking for a redneck’s response more than a carpetbagger’s response, you may not find that here.
(using those terms to makes a distinction-- don’t anyone overreact)
Poland gained independence in 1918, confirmed by the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, so if he left in 1920, it was just at the beginning of its period of independence that ended in 1939. Those years were also a chaotic period of democracy that ended a few years after in a coup, as well as a war against the USSR that resulted in territorial expansion to the east (that was reclaimed by the USSR in 1939 when it joined Germany to partition Poland again and kept after 1945).
“It would be nice to hear from some Southerners, because once again I find this thread dominated by Northerners telling us how Southerners are allowed to think and feel.”
I’ll raise my hand because I am an Okra-loving, Brunswick stew slurping, cheese grits eater here…full of Southern heritage. Oh, but I do hate “Sweet Tea.” Do my opinions still count?
I’m sure PG can speak for herself but until she does if he LEFT in 1920 he had lived a fair chunk of life as a Jew under the influence of a “hostile” government. Certainly he would have heard family stories as well.
"Poland gained independence in 1918, confirmed by the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, so if he left in 1920, it was just at the beginning of its period of independence that ended in 1939. "
Oh goodness, ucb. I was referring to Tsar Nicholas II, who certainly didn’t make life pleasant for Jews in the Pale of Settlement, well BEFORE his death in 1918. As they said in Fiddler on the Roof - May God bless and keep the tsar… far away from us! I stand by my statement and sorry to digress.
“because once again I find this thread dominated by Northerners telling us how Southerners are allowed to think and feel.”
Anyone can think and feel any way they so desire. We just didn’t see the country as divided into Yankee and Dixie until some (emphasis some) Southerners decided to create that division. We thought we were all one big country and that was all in the past. Little did we know how much some people like to feed grudges.
Look, I live in the Midwest. It’s an area that routinely gets derided even on CC! Kind of slow, and behind the times, and what-not. I get it. But see, I find the best way to ensure that people on the coasts don’t think I’m a hick is to … not persist in doing things that would brand me as a hick. I don’t get why one would take pride in being thought backwards. I really don’t.