http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/06/26/obama-sings-amazing-grace-during-pinckney-eulogy-sot-nr.cnn
This link might be a little easier to work with.
I did a Google search of “why do southerners hate northerners,” and a common response was that because northerners think they know everything. That made me laugh.
The eulogy was epic and I was moved to tears when he sang. This has been quite a day.
Pizzagirl has a point - if we get into a ## contest over who was oppressed more, those of Eastern European heritage who were serfs suffered an awful lot as well, and the US all but ignores the deaths of millions and millions under Stalin and other leaders (yet my kids have spent months and months studying the Holocaust beginning in 6th grade and including a Holocaust museum trip, and far less died during it).
Slavery sucked for every slave, be they in the US South, or US North, or Brazil, or the Caribbean, or in Africa, or serfs in Eastern Europe. The Civil War itself is discussed as having multiple causes, but it comes back to state’s rights. And the issue of slavery being a civil rights, nay, a human rights issue was ignored, because back then, men basically owned women and their children anyway, so owning another person was a “matter of choice” that Northerners were decreasing and did not depend on, and Southerners were becoming more and more dependent on. The explorations to the west exacerbated the issue.
Anyway, I know that the South has its own history, and it is difficult to extricate it from slavery until the end of the Civil War, and it is also abundantly clear that wars can end without the “loser” coming to terms with their loss (see Germany after WWI).
I think all of that is moot, and the white supremacists grasp on to “white power” as their right, to subjugate who they think of as “subhumans” - because otherwise, they would look into the mirror and see the real subhumans. It is like misogynists - there is no chance to talk to them about women who have done amazing things including huge positive influences on their lives, there is only hate and making women subhuman (and same for homophobes regarding LGBTQA folks).
What Southerners think vs. what Northerners think vs. what the average US citizen thinks about the flag will not cure racism, and will not stop hate. It can help that we can stop having to explain the flag to our children, to rationalize it. But it won’t affect white supremacists, they’ll just justify their evil even more. But we can hide the flag under the bed and make believe we are all better now.
^^ I watched the services on CSPAN, including Obama’s eulogy. His rendition of “Amazing Grace” was a little off/key but electrifying. Really an amazing moment.
I think I am perfectly qualified, or at least more qualified than you, bay, to decide if I “qualify as a southerner”. Having lived here for 40 years, it seems to give some credence to my “identity”. Seems that the stereotypic perception of a southerner is held largely by non-southerners. People seem to think only the south has a rural population with less than forward-thinking perceptions. This simply isn’t so.
The South is much different today from 50 years ago. It is not just that many have changed their way of thinking about race relations, but after 2 generations from the turbulence of the civil rights days of the 60s, different people make up the South. People in the South today for the most part attended integrated schools, while many old-timers in South attended segregated schools and grew up with Jim Crow. Today the South is not all crackers but a mix of Spanish speaking, Asians, retirees from North, job chasers from North seeking work in the Sun Belt…all amalgamated with white ‘Southerners’ and Blacks. Today’s South for the most part is way different from the old Dixie days 50+ years ago. People like Roof exist in the South, but they are a small minority today thankfully.
What is your take, if any, on the South’s identity as something unique and apart from the Northern states?
And do you think Southerners should be allowed to claim that special identity, if you think they have one?
Bay,
You talk about the south as if it was one big univariate mass with one singly held opinion. It isn’t.
While the South is not a homogenous group of people, to claim that their is not a “Southern” identity would be false. Look around. There are experiences and ways that make up the said “southern way”. How it factors in to people identifying with the culture, I do not know, but to deny there is a southern culture would be “putting the blinders on”, so to speak. There are identities that fall in line with the culture in New England, California, Florida, and the South. They are stereotypical, yes, but it is a present culture nonetheless.
From our rabbi’s facebook page (with some XX’s to maintain privacy):
" Twenty two years ago we travelled with body guards, stood surrounded by police in the XXX Square, as we demanded equal rights for the LGBT community. The anti-protestors held up signs like “Thank God for Aids!” and the letter column of the XXX newspaper ran the headline “XXRabbiXX should leave .” But today, that dream we dreamt so long ago has come to fruition. In every breeze that blows you can hear the sound of “that newer South…”
No, I actually don’t think that, jym. I think other people think that, however, and they it is made up of mostly uneducated, ignorant people who have “Southern Pride,” and if that pride stems out of something that happened in Civil War times, then they are not allowed to have it.
“I did a Google search of “why do southerners hate northerners,” and a common response was that because northerners think they know everything. That made me laugh.”
Why don’t you do a Google search of what Southerners think of the Confederate Flag since you don’t think there is enough representation of their views on this thread.
And the states’ right under contention was the right to hold slaves. Just to be clear.
Niquii-
The sterotypical southern persona is not representative of the southern persona. Not everyone looks like this http://www.mandatory.com/2012/05/14/the-greatest-mug-shots-of-all-time/9
Mmmm, I was thinking of different stereotypical southern persona, but sure…whatever you say.
Feel free to share, niquii.
The previous post was in response to non-southerner’s perspectives of southerners. You live in the south, niquii, so you know thats not an accurate representation. Just as Honey boo-boo is not the representative southern woman, and Duck Dynasty is not representative of the southern mentality (hopefully!!)
Well, off to celebrate my birthday and the other great events of the day. Hmmm… a fried pie and some goobers should be in order.
As a Southerner, I believe the South does indeed have its own cultural flavor that stands largely independent of slavery and racism, one that many of us identify with, and hold with affection and pride. There’s a tremendous musical heritage that arose from the South (which few dare to deny AfAms played a major role in shaping), that forged an uniquely American Musical identity, that then went on to inform and dominate the rest of the planet’s musical aesthetic. Them’s braggin’ rights, if I do say so myself. There’s a cuisine aesthetic that most can identify as being uniquely Southern: Smithfield Ham, fried catfish, cornbread and grits, fried green tomatoes, collard greens, sweet potato pie, key lime pie, Southern Fried Chicken, crawfish etouffee, jambalaya, shrimp gumbo…(anybody hungry yet? :D) I, for one, proudly embrace that heritage. There’s a beautiful architectural aesthetic that can be identified as uniquely Southern, and an unhurried “set a spell, and talk” kind of neighborliness, and generally valued desire to be socially polite and deferential that I view to be Southern. I’m sure other Southerners can add to this wonderful list.
But the confederate battle flag represents none of that, because that flag, by virtue of it’s very inception and history, relagates the South’s sizable African American population to the status of an economic commodity (literal property) over which to wage war. One cannot use a symbol meant to promote the dehumanization of, in some instances, 40% of a population, to say it represents “the proud heritage” of everyone in that population (unless of course, your cognitive disconnect has made you forget that many African Americans are also Southerners).
@jym626, Happy Birthday!
Don’t forget your sweet tea! 