I’m at a loss to understand. I can see someone having crazy ideas in the abstract. But to sit with real humans in a bible study for an hour and then to Still do this…you can’t call that crazy. Just evil.
Pure hate bubbling within his veins. It’s consumed him.
I did not elaborate on my point, but to be clear, the government made a massive effort to confiscate guns from people in Mexico. They were effective in getting all the … wrong ones. Law abiding people lost their guns, and the bandits are not exactly prone to follow the laws in the first place. Nor do they have lots of problems getting them from the best reservoir in the world, namely the US that is quite happy to keep servicing their needs. The military checked my parents’ homes twice from top to bottom with detecting equipment. All their friends turned in every weapon they had, except for antique guns used by Pancho Villa!
And to be clear, this would hardly be different in the US if guns were banned altogether. Criminals, lunatics, and terrorists would not line up at a gun show or fill the paperwork at Walmart.
If the US success in criminalizing drugs is any indication, our government would not come close to being able to pull that off.
Sounds so familiar. Dylann Roof was a high school dropout, unemployed, who used drugs and spent his days playing video games. Also the father beat the stepmother and verbally abused her as well. (one wonders how he treated Dylann). No mention of the biological mother.
It’s all about the parenting.
It is not hard to understand why someone like this kid would do what he did. I recall reading in one of Stud’s Terkel’s books an oral history he did with a man who had been a grand wizard in the KKK and later on became a labor and civil rights activist. When talking about why he joined the KKK, why he hated others, especially blacks, he said that growing up where he did, it was tough living, the jobs that existed in the mills and such paid very little, and they saw time and again that no one got ahead, that their kids faced the same circumstances they did, etc. Yet they were told that America was the land of opportunity, that if any man wanted to work hard, they could achieve their dreams, and in the man’s words, all they saw was themselves working hard and getting nowhere. Too, when they complained about the low wages, the owners would tell them “well, if you don’t want to work for me, I can get any number of black guys who will work for a lot less” (sound familiar, setting one group against another is as old as the hills…)…Faced with that conflict, rather than figuring out the it was the system that was working against them, that what they had been told was in many ways utter rubbish, they figured out something was wrong but rather than blame the system for their plight, they blamed ‘others’, blacks, Jews, whatever…it was only later when he came to realize that the blacks were in worse shape than he was, that they suffered from the same unjust system, that he turned around and tried to change the real issues.
This kid grew up hardscrabble, the family was not exactly living the life of riley, probably went to lousy schools, had a father who was probably an angry guy blaming his own lack of anything on everyone else, especially blacks, and the kid turned his anger and frustration at who he probably has been told his whole life is part of the problem (given all the rhetoric about how affirmative action took away ‘our’ jobs that I have heard over the years, likely he heard the same thing), and you have a pretty volatile mix there. The kids statements validate that, when you hear about ‘them taking over our country’ and ‘blacks raping our women’ , it tells a lot (for the record, black women are overwhelmingly the victim of black rapists, given the kind of segregation we have in this country and rape often being a crime of opportunity, shouldn’t be a big surprise).
Read the Daily Mail article posted above. The father had a pretty successful construction business. One wonders why he didn’t put his son to work.
His family life doesn't sound grossly more screwed up than other people who don't decide to murder black people in church, though, so I wonder where all that hate came from. Where did he hear all about how "you rape our women" is what I want to know. Assumed it was the father, but there didn't seem to be a connection between the father and white supremacy. I'm thinking internet or radio and I wonder when it started for him.
I also wonder if this was the result of actual hate for black people or some kind of transference of hate. Something like I hate myself, but I don’t want to kill myself. I hate my father (who drove away the only mom I ever knew) but I can’t kill my father. Who can I kill? I know…
@jazzymom - That kind of virulent racism is still strong in some places, and it’s rewarded and reinforced by, for example, flying the Confederate flag at the statehouse (and not even lowering it to half-staff in the current tragedy).
The “you rape our women” business is a trope dating back to antebellum times.
[The Deadly History of “They’re Raping Our Women”](The deadly history of “They’re raping our women”: Racists have long defended their worst crimes in the name of defending white women’s honor.)
One has to ask themselves where are the white leaders? White parents and the white community need to take a hard look at themselves and step up and take responsibility for raising their kids and teaching them right from wrong.
@saintfan What else can you expect? They’ve always been grabbing at the hand that feeds them and sucking the pot dry.
Sarcasm aside ( 
), I’m looking at this judge and I’m just hoping South Carolina has a good system that won’t shortchange the justice that is due.
Perhaps no one should be looking to this judge for anything but a recusal:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/19/racist-talk-from-dylann-roof-s-judge.html
Nauseating.
Well someone from the Roof family made a sorrowful public statement. Who it was, I do not know.
@AttorneyMother - Wow. I wouldn’t look for a recusal though. He struck me as being delighted to suddenly find himself involved in an international news story.
Trying to hornswoggle people into believing that this was an “attack on Christianity”?
I am so glad this thread was opened back up. So a few thoughts…
- Today, I heard on one of the stations, I cant remember, because I was in the car listening to satellite radio, it was reported that the parents were separated, and there was racist paraphanalia found at his mothers house, which is where he had been living. They did not find anything at his fathers house.
- His sister was supposed to get married tomorrow, so I guess this may change that, perhaps?
- One of his best friends was interviewed tonight, and he said while his dad didnt buy the gun for him, he did give him the money to buy a gun.
- The judge is an ass! How dare he use that hearing to talk about how we should feel sorry for the shooters family. For all we know, his whole family could be racists, and that is where he learned this crap. He is awful young to have so much hate. I am appalled that this judge is still on the bench, after using the N-WORD in court. He received a tap on the hand.
- If this doesnt spur them to take that confederate flag down, I dont know what will.
I was wondering why there seemed to be no attempt to interview the parents of this boy. I wondered (and still wonder) why the parents of the Columbine shooters were effectively given a pass, and were never shown or questioned in the wake of that horrible crime, especially since it was known that some of the explosives used were prepared in the garage of one boy’s home. How was it that the parents were oblivious to such undertakings?
But, how many similar domestic situations exist in America? Do all children raised in such environments commit these types of atrocities? Obviously not. I’ve no doubt that his upbringing played a role, but there’s something about this particular kid that made him go where even the most stalwart members of America’s growing number of hate groups have so far not gone.
To be fair, I’ve seen a lot of white Americans standing in sorrow and solidarity with the members of Emmanuel AME’s congregation, and with black Charlestonians. That’s been a comfort.
Well, given what it stands for, who really is surprised that it isn’t being flown at half staff?
As a matter of record, the confederate flag at the statehouse cannot be lowered. There is no pulley, as it is permanently affixed to fly up top at all times. Why,do you ask? It was part of the compromise garnered when they agreed to remove it from the top of the building to the spot where it currently resides.
^^ They could install a pulley on that flagpole if they wanted to. They don’t want to.
But there are troubled kids and terrible home situations in every country. There is mental illness in every country. All over the world, kids watch violent TV and movies, and play violent video games. All over the world, people feel hatred toward other groups. All over the world, people feel the alienation that this shooter feels, and that Adam Lanza and James Holmes and Kleibold/Harris and all the rest of them felt. And yet this steady drumbeat of gun massacres happens only America. It is long past time to open our eyes to the obvious, and admit that our peculiar problem is not troubled young men. Our peculiar problem is guns.
The Confederate Flag cannot be taken down, lowered or anything else without a vote from the SC legislature. That was in the “compromise” when the flag was removed from over the statehouse.
As to the Judge - this is the first and only time he will be heard from in this case (thank god.) His only action in this case was the bond hearing on the gun charge (not the murder charges.) The case will now be moved from the Magistrate Court to another court. I’m not sure which one but definitely not this court and not in front of this Judge.
“I was wondering why there seemed to be no attempt to interview the parents of this boy.”
I’m sure investigators have interviewed the parents/family. However, they are under no obligation to interview with the press. Would you if it was your child who did this?
I also heard that the father, the uncle and the sister all called the police when the surveillance camera picture was released to report who it was.
Ooops, I almost started to say something about guns in response, LasMa, but then I remembered that this is not the thread to riff on that aspect of this topic. The mods graciously reopened this thread. We should try our best to honor their trust.