At what price to I buy love?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I posted about a year ago about my daughter. Briefly, she took a year off from school, because she was not well.</p>

<p>She returned to school in January. It has been a struggle for her.</p>

<p>While she was on leave from school, she met a man 14 years her senior, in his mid-late 30’s, and began dating him. I have not met him, though from the way she describes him, he seems nice enough. </p>

<p>He lives on one coast of the US, and we live on the other coast of the US. Her school is a plane ride from both of us.</p>

<p>I know he is successful at his chosen proffession. And I know he makes her happy. </p>

<p>However, I do not approve of this relationship. I don’t understand what a successful man in his 30’s sees in a college student. She is a beautiful and intelligent girl, but they are at completely different places in their lives. While I am not discouraging the relationship, I am not encouraging it either.</p>

<p>I know that, since she has returned to school, she has visited him for at least one occasion. There was no transaction on her credit card for the plane ticket. She insists that he paid for her ticket, but coincidentally, she started having banking problems at about the same time. Her bank account is in overdraft. She insists its because she lost her atm card, and someone managed to get her password. But I am skeptical. I think she paid cash for the ticket.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, we replenished her reserve of cash for emergencies. I did not want money worries to get in the way of her schoolwork, which, as I said above, is a struggle for her. We want her to finish school.</p>

<p>Now she says that he invited her to stay with him over the summer, and she wants to go. She has no money, other that what we give her. I don’t want her to go. She has a credit card, and cash, which we give her for her expenses. She knows that she can’t use her credit card, because both my husband and I do not approve. I spoke to her last night, and told her that while I can’t and won’t monitor her cash, I would consider it a betrayal of my love and trust if she used the cash to pay for a ticket to spend the summer with this man.</p>

<p>As of now, she has no way to pay for this ticket, except with the money we give her. She has no job either now or for the summer, though I know she is looking for a job where he lives.</p>

<p>She hates being here. She never really had friends growing up where we live, and in any case, most have moved on and will not be here for the summer. </p>

<p>Also, its difficult having her home. I love her, but we just don’t get along. Mostly, the reason is that its impossible to say no to her without it becoming a major argument. She barely talks to me now. We briefly talk about once a week or once every two weeks. I know that she feels that talking to me upsets her, and I really don’t want to upset her, because then she blames her difficulties in school on the stress that we give her. </p>

<p>I did talk to her last night about this, because some arrangement have to be made for the summer - she can’t stay in school. But I am afraid that she is going to use the conversation against me if it adversely affects her ability to concentrate on her classes. And I am also afraid that she will neglect her classes in order to earn money to buy a ticket to see this man.</p>

<p>The question is, at what price to I buy her love? Should I buy her a ticket to visit this man, whose intentions are a mystery to me? If she manages to get there, either on her own, or with my funds, should I support her while she is there? If this man really wants her to visit, shouldn’t he buy her ticket?</p>

<p>This is really not about money. This is about paying for something of which I do not approve, in order to have a relationship with my child, who I love. But at what price a relationship?</p>

<p>I spoke to a psychologist about his, who told me that as painful as it is, I should try to not have a relationship with her. It is so stressful, and it hurts both of us so much. But I can’t walk away. And in any case, what does no relationship mean? Does it mean I should continue to support her financially, but get no contact out of it? Again, what is the price?</p>

<p>My husband does not want to pay for the ticket, but he wants to pay her expenses if she manages to get to this man. He says I am being to strict, and that I am cutting off any future relationship with her. He says, someday she will grow up and realize that we have tried our best to give her what she needs, and on most occasions, what she wants. But do I have to give her something of which I do not approve to have a relationship with her?</p>

<p>I can’t describe how sad I am about this. I don’t know what to do.</p>

2

<p>I feel for you very much. Ultimately, it is going to come down to a decision the two of you have to make, your husband and you. I would tell your daughter that this is not something for which you and her father want to pay. Be kind and nice, and offer her a place at home and help to find a job there. If she can earn enough to go visit and the expenses, that is fine. Tell her you will be supportive of her job and savings efforts. If the man can come visit, you would like to meet him, and will put him up for a night or two at a local hotel, and take them out for dinner. Tell her you are glad she has found someone she likes, and you would like to meet him. </p>

<p>I would not say anything negative about the man at all. Just say that you have certain feelings and morals about things that though you will not impose on your daughter, you don’t want her opinions and lifestyles forced on you. This is just mutual respect. Personally, I would be suspicious of someone of that age who cannot send the girl a ticket, and has not come to meet you. If he had half a brain and any respect, he would understand that you as parents would have concerns, and would make that effort. I am not at all surprised that he is interested in her. Why not? Young, but of age, and paying her way? A distance away so he does not have to deal with her daily, but can enjoy short bursts. Of course, he is interested in that type of relationship. I would be very, very interested in meeting him, and having him know that I am interested. </p>

<p>As an aside, the ATM card was a big problem for my boys. They just could not get it and ran into deficits constantly. One ran up over $900 in fees because he kept using it at a deficit, figuring he had to have money in the bank if the card continued to let him charge. He was being charged $30+ for each tiny item he charged, like sodas, sundries, sandwiches, etc, because the bank would allow anything under $20 to pass under the radar, but still charge for the overdraft.</p>

3

<p>My first reaction is that you should demand to meet the man.As the mother of a D I would not be comfortable not knowing my D’s significant other of ANY age,let alone someone so much older.
Upon reading further I can’t help but wonder if your D was looking for some sort of parenting “subsitute” when she chose to have this kind of age different relationship due to the problems she has with you and your H.
Obviously, she’s playing around with the $$ issues and making up excuses for you so you’llkeep giving her $.I feel badly for all of you.Does she have any different options for the summer…is it just him or you parents, who don’t seem to really want her home anyway?
My niece,now 23, has had similar older man issues (boyfriend with whom she is living is 10 yrs her senior).She had many many problems at home,culminating with the death of her mother (my sister) 6 yrs ago. But at least her father knows the man,the family has met him numerous times and they live locally.</p>

4

<p>Maybe you need to meet this guy. Or at least talk to him. If you know his intentions (which may be good ones after all), or if you have a better sense of what he is like, then you will know what to do.</p>

5

<p>I totally understand where you are coming from. But I would be afraid that if you protested about it, you will be the ones to lose. Your daughter will follow her heart, and yes, this may very well be a mistake. But even though it may break our hearts to watch them make mistakes, they do have to make them. We want nothing more than to shelter them from what we know could be pain, but I guess we can’t do that any longer. I think the best thing is for her to be responsible for the money, as much as you all agree she should be, and then for her to go. But, please do not shut your door to her. Let her come back if and when she needs to. If it turns out that this is wrong, she needs to know that you will always be there for her. Be sure that she is safe and protected (I.E. HEALTH PROTECTION AND BIRTH CONTROL!!) and that she knows you love her. If this ends up being the real thing, you will never get her back, if you “throw her out.” And, she will find a way to go, despite your well-meant restrictions. Believe me, she will go if she wants to go. You could lose her forever. Not worth it…</p>

6

<p>I think you have to be true to what you believe. Express your decision, whatever it is, with love. However, I think it’s VERY important to let your daughter know that whatever decisions she makes, she is still your daughter and you love her. There are so many issues here, and if she does go out there (no matter the funding) and things go downhill, she should know that she can still call you.
This advice might be different if she were in her 30’s or older and had a history of making bad decisions that required bailing out. She’s in her early 20’s. She needs that safety net.</p>

<p>Good luck to all of you.</p>

7

<p>I feel for you, I truly do. I also do not get how a counselor suggested cutting off from your daughter. I would never see that as a positive thing to do. </p>

<p>In any case, while I do not personally have the issues that you do with your daughter (I have two daughters in college), I do fully support them during the school year but I do not pay for their expenses over the summer when they choose to live away from home (and they DO live away from home every summer). They have gotten summer jobs every summer that covers their summer expenses away from home and in most cases, also nets them spending money for the school year. I don’t see why that would be different for your daughter (although every family has their own values and how they work things). If your D was mine, I would not stop her from spending her summer where the boyfriend lives. However, I would not be funding it. I would expect her to get a summer job to pay her summer expenses (and in YOUR case, you can’t say that your lack of funding is affecting her school work as it is summer). If she needs to get the airplane ticket ahead of time before her summer job kicks in, I would possibly lay that out and expect her to pay it back when she gets her initial paychecks for the summer. OR if you feel YOUR D might not make good on that, then you could suggest that the boyfriend lend her the airfare and she pay him back from her summer job earnings. I would not stop your D from where she wants to spend her summer as she is an adult. However, I would not be funding my kid for the summer if she chose not to live and work at home. She would be responsible for her summer expenses. </p>

<p>I want to be clear that the lack of funding for the summer would have NOTHING to do with approval or disapproval of her spending the summer with this guy. I would say she was free to do so and not comment on it (though as someone else said, let her know she can fall back on you if she chooses and it doesn’t work out). I would have said the same about funding had she chosen to get a job in that city to be near girlfriends.</p>

8

<p>Great advice, Soozie. I agree heartily in this difficult situation.</p>

9

<p>So let’s see this from your D’s perspective- the guy could be great, mediocre or awful… but he is willing to have her live with him for the summer and unless he’s making crystal meth in the bathroom, it’s probably a lower stress way to go than living with mom with whom she fights all the time (or speaks to twice a month.) If I were a semi rational teenager or young adult, BF is looking better and better as the semester wears on and the other options start to peter out.</p>

<p>I think you’ve got three things to sort out. 1- What is going on with your relationship with your daughter? 2- Why is she not interested in a BF closer to her age, closer to her geographically, with more potential for a real relationship than this mystery guy? 3- Why are you all using money as the red herring here? Who is controlling whom?</p>

<p>I’d send my daughter a nice respectful email and point out the following:
1- she is your daughter and you love her, and have a responsiblity to help her get launched into adulthood.
2- you are prepared to embrace her significant other-- even if you have concerns-- just because you love her and therefore want to love anyone she cares about.
3- You are troubled that once she gets to where he lives, finds a job, etc. she’ll be trapped if either the job or the relationship goes sour… she won’t be able to afford to come home, she’ll be stuck living with (or kicked out from) an ex- BF; she’ll be heading back to school after a miserable summer.</p>

<p>You’d like to be able to support her with this but think that she needs to lay out for you her contingency plan, i.e. here’s what happens if the BF goes bye-bye, here’s what it will cost to come home if the job is terrible, or if I get sick, here’s how I’ll be getting back to school in the Fall and here’s how I’ll pay for it, etc. You’d also like to make sure that she’s taking appropriate steps to protect herself- does she know if he’s been married before, is still married, has minor children? Have they discussed STD’s? Does he live alone or will there be a gang of roommates to deal with also? How will she feel not having privacy over the summer, i.e. being someone else’s house guest for a long period of time. Is he financially independent, and if so, is there a reason he isn’t paying her airfare? If not, is he living off mom and dad, ex-wife, sibling? What does he do for a living?</p>

<p>I think you need to find a way to have a semi-adult conversation with her about these issues. I think your daughter is very vulnerable to a bad situation if flying off to be with a guy she doesn’t know well is preferable to a visit home with mom and dad.</p>

<p>And have you googled him? Do you know anything about him?</p>

<p>My neighbors ended up with a convicted felon living in their basement (the nanny’s boyfriend- don’t ask) so I realize I’m hyper-sensitive about these “mystery men” in their 30’s who take an abnormal interest in 19 year old girls… but google, lexis/nexis, even the court house in the county where he lives are your friend. My neighbors could have made one phone call to learn that their “boarder’s” wife had an order of protection from him.</p>

10

<p>This graf was the most telling to me:</p>

<p>“Mostly, the reason is that its impossible to say no to her without it becoming a major argument. She barely talks to me now. We briefly talk about once a week or once every two weeks. I know that she feels that talking to me upsets her, and I really don’t want to upset her, because then she blames her difficulties in school on the stress that we give her.”</p>

<p>Truthfully, she sounds like she plays you at every turn.</p>

<p>I agree with earlier advice that you have to be true to yourself. And expect mutual respect. If she is in her early to mid-20s, she should be working to pay for some of these things herself. She doesn’t work while in school? Has she ever worked?</p>

<p>I also agree with not running down the guy because you don’t know enough about him.</p>

11

<p>In a situation like this, it almost never wins to run down the guy, even if you have good reason to do so. It just alienates the D more, and sends her running in the direction you deplore.</p>

12

<p>This sounds so painful. None of us are perfect parents and none of us can control what our children do. It is especially hard when children are at the age where they are independent in thought, but dependent in money. Money is the ULTIMATE controller. She may feel bitter and angry and as if you control her through the money, even though she is a young adult. Remove that equation from your relationship and you won’t feel so used and she will feel much more independent. You shouldn’t know what she is spending her money on! If you don’t know, you won’t feel used. This guy is not the reason for your pain. That is her business, not yours.</p>

<p>This is what you must do for both of your sanities:</p>

<p>GET OFF HER BANK ACCOUNT! Tell her you are closing the account because you have decided that she is old enough to handle her own money without your interference. Close the credit card (why would you have given one to her in the first place?). Nobody should have a credit card until they are able to get it on their own. You can still deposit money into an account that isn’t yours, but you can’t see the balance or where the money was spent. That will relieve so much stress!! What you don’t know can’t bother you. Once someone turns 18, they shouldn’t have a parent on their account, that is my firm belief. They have to learn how to handle their own money without Mom and Dad questioning their judgment all the time. </p>

<p>After she has opened her own account (or kept the same one with you removed from it), you can deposit what you feel comfortable helping her with. Student accounts are free at most banks. That amount has to be what you would like to do, not what you feel obligated to do. Once you put money in there, you should not have any thoughts about how she spends it. If it isn’t HER money then it wasn’t truly given as a gift to her. I haven’t got a clue what my kids spent their money on. I paid for the college directly. I paid for a meal plan, tuition and room. In the summers they either worked fulltime and lived where they wanted or came home. There is no way I would have funded a plane ticket to visit a boyfriend! </p>

<p>Why isn’t the man paying for the plane ticket?</p>

13

<p>I’d switch psychiatrists. Anyone who says that you should ‘not have a rel’p w/your daughter’ needs to be re-evaluated.</p>

14

<p>citrusbelt, I’m not so sure I’d want the guy to buy the ticket because then she’ll feel beholden to him, and that could cause more problems. But, yeah, I thought the same thing, too. OP has said he’s successful in his field, so seems like he could swing it. But the girl wants to look more mature to the guy and self-sufficient, even though she’s not, and wouldn’t ask him to.</p>

<p>But, I agree with much of what you’ve written. The daughter wants all the rights of being an adult with none of the responsibilities. Once she makes her own money, she’ll feel better about herself and her relationship with her parents will improve. It might be tough in the short term, but, in the end, everyone in this scenario needs to be functioning as an adult.</p>

15

<p>As I said before, I don’t fund my kids’ summer plans away from home. Therefore, I think it is THEIR decision what to do for summer. In this case, I don’t see how you would have a say in how she spends her summer or with whom as she is an adult. I do think, however, you have a say in what you fund and don’t fund. She is free to do this and fund it herself. On the other matters about the guy and so forth, I think you can give motherly advice (like blossom suggests about contingency plans and things she should be thinking about and weighing) and then the ultimate decision is hers to make. I think the issue of your paying for it should be removed from the equation and you should not be funding it even if she was taking a job in a city to be with some girls. </p>

<p>I recall last summer, my mom gave me a hard time and questioned why I was permitting my then 20 year old daughter to take a job in France and live on her own there (did not know anyone) and even traveled around Europe for ten days before the job started and on weekends, alone some of the times. In my view, my D was an adult and could make her own choices and did not need my permission. I also was not funding it. However, I also could give motherly advice about various issues and plans but the ultimate decisions were HERS to make. I suppose if I were funding it, that may change that equation but I feel we fully fund her school year and now that she is an adult, her summers are for working and/or funding herself if she CHOOSES to not live at home in the summers (and my kids don’t and that is fine with me and has nothing to do with our relationship but more to do with opportunities they wish to have and I do support those). And if it involved a boy, I’d still see it as their decision and their money for the summer. I would still dispense motherly advice/discussion. But they are free to make these choices as adults and particularly if they are funding their own summers. </p>

<p>I think in YOUR case, your D does need to fund the summer…the airfare and summer expenses and then it is up to her how she wants to do that. She doesn’t need your approval if she pays for it herself. Take money out of this equation. Then, you can advise her about the choices she is making and considerations she should have in this decision but the ultimate decision is hers to make. If you fund it, it seems like that introduces the issue of your approval of the funds/activity. She can easily ask the guy to loan her the airfare and she takes a summer job to pay it back and other summer expenses. As far as motherly advice (again, that is not the same as approval as she is funding it herself), she should think about contingency plans and also I am not clear on how well she knows this man and she is commiting to an entire summer living together and so that would be worth a discussion.</p>

16

<p>OP, do you mind if I ask how your D met this guy? You said she met him during her year off from school. You said you live on one coast, he on the other. The school is a plane ride from your home as well as from his. Where was your D during her year off? At home? In the city where her college is located? In the boyfriend’s area? So, has she spent considerable time with him in person already (before commiting to an entire summer living together)? Did they meet over the internet? It is fuzzy to me. Again, if she funds it, she doesn’t need your APRROVAL. However, I do think as parents, you should be raising questions for her to weigh and giving some advice.</p>

17

<p>If she funds it she does not need your approval. As a parent, I do not fund my college kids summer or spring break plans. Our door is open and they can come home any time but I don’t fund vacations.</p>

18

<p>This struggle arose because of the control of money that the parents have. This guy may be a total jerk or he may be a very nice person, you don’t know. At this point, there isn’t much you can do. You have to trust that the raising you have done has given your daughter some semblance of rational thought. As others have mentioned, all you can do is give parental advise in a careful way. All young people make decisions they later regret, it is part of growing up. </p>

<p>I totally disagree with some posters here. If he wants her to come, he should share the cost or pay for the entire ticket. He has to know she doesn’t have a job. If he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t want her to come very much, does he? She will not be beholden to him if the parents offer to fund a ticket home if it doesn’t work out. That would put the parents mind at ease that she isn’t stuck in a situation she regrets. She can always take the bus across the country, too. :wink: </p>

<p>I never funded any of my kids summers, but I always had an open door with food in the frig for them. Tell her you wish for her a fun summer, but she is welcome to come home if she likes. </p>

<p>PS NEVER cut yourself off from your daughter and get a new counselor. The one you have is a complete jerk. Leave your door open to her. Tell her you love her, but let her do what she wants to do, just don’t pay for it.</p>

19

<p>Just a comment: if he were a great guy, then he would have visited the parents. With or without an invitation from the daughter. That’s just something that you do if your intentions are honorable.</p>

20

<p>I don’t think the guy needs to buy her a ticket. I realize he is older and emplyed. However, my D’s boyfriends don’t pay for her stuff I dont’ think. If she wants to spend the summer in his city and work there, she should pay to get there. He could offer to split it but I don’t think he has to pay for it. If she is lacking the funds until her summer job kicks in, she can ask her parents or the boyfriend to lay it out and then she pays them back. In some ways, if the guy pays, she may feel like she owes him something. I realize that my point of view may be colored by the fact that the boys my D has dated are not over 22 yet and are not better funded than she is. Still, while the guy could have offered to pay, I don’t think that is something to necessarily expect. You say “he wants her to spend the summer” with him but one could also say she wants to spend the summer with him. Her trip. Her summer. She is an adult and should pay to go. A free ride by mom and dad to go on vacations and not have to earn over the summer or pay their own way is not typical. I could see parents paying summer expenses if the D lives at home but not funding her choice to travel or live some place else for summer. That’s what summer jobs are for and what typical college students do.</p>