Bard College vs. Oberlin College [Political Science, Philosophy]

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Schools: Bard College vs Oberlin College
Intended major: Political science, Philosophy
Similarities: Small liberal arts college, progressive, quirky, LGBT+ friendly, big music scene, no Greek life, harsh winters, no sports
Costs: I appealed aid at both schools, so I’m currently unsure of the prices, but they’re roughly the same at the moment. I’m really trying to focus on fit/happiness right now, but at the end of the day, it will come down to which is a better financial option

Bard College

Bard College Pros:

  • In a blue state (NY)
  • BEAUTIFUL area, near the Catskill Mountains, rivers, waterfalls. Would be peaceful to be around and fun to explore. Beautiful buildings/architecture as well
  • After undergrad, I would definitely like to continue living/going to school in NY, or close by, like in MA
  • Single user style bathrooms/showers
  • I have a family friend who goes there and LOVES IT, so much so that they’re planning to work/live there after graduation
  • Has a farm!
  • My cousin lives in MA, would be easy to visit during short breaks if going all the way home (to CA) is too hard or expensive
  • I like how experimental the academics are
  • Has very cool programs, like the prison initiative where incarcerated people get free college education. I really like their commitment to social justice and giving everyone who wants it access to education.

Bard College Cons:

  • A bit too small (1.9k student population, ~400 in each class)
  • I’ve heard it can be cliquey and a bit hard to make friends, which is a big concern for me as I didn’t mesh that well with the people at my hs (small, religious) and it sucked
  • I’ve heard some dorms and showers can be moldy
  • Too rural? There are 3 towns that a shuttle goes to for shops/malls, and they’re only about a 5-10 minute drive away from campus, but I come from a huge city so I’m scared it’ll get too repetitive or boring
  • I live in CA currently, but my parents are seriously considering moving to a town that’s a 20 minute drive away from Bard. I love them, but I know I need to branch out and practice living on my own, so it might be a little too close. Though, going between 3 states for holidays, moving, school, or being with family/friends would be rough
  • Hard to get to the airport/a big city. 2 hour drive to NYC, 1 hour drive to Albany (which is a small airport, I’d probably have to do layovers all the time, which is annoying)
  • I message like ~10 people on the Bard class of 2028 Instagram, and it seems super hit or miss about whether people like it or not. I’d say the most common response is they like it, but the social isolation is difficult and it’s a bit hard to make friends (which again, really scares me)
  • Someone from my high school might be going here?
  • They’ve responded to my emails fast, but I haven’t gotten any packets or informational emails, except for one about admitted students day. Could point towards a lack of student support, as the 8 year graduation rate is 76%?

Oberlin College

Oberlin College Pros:

  • Beautiful architecture, very green campus
  • Dorms are nice. Pretty big rooms, bathrooms didn’t look dirty
  • A bit bigger (2.8k student population, ~700 in each class), so I feel like it’ll be less suffocating
  • I messaged a lot of people from the class of 2028 Instagram and talked to graduates of my hs who go there, and they all seem to really love it
  • I love how big biking is on campus
  • The town is cute. There’s a few nice and yummy restaurants, and a few thrift stores
  • There’s a shuttle that goes to bigger towns, malls, shops, and Cleveland every few days, so if I do get bored, there is a quick way out
  • The drive to the airport is easy, it’s about a 30 minute drive but seems quicker. The Cleveland airport also has nonstop/nonlayover flights to where I live!
  • No one in my high school class is going here, it’ll be a fresh start
  • Has a winter term that you can do wherever (from campus, home, abroad), so I can escape the harsh winters
  • Wouldn’t be living in the same area as my parents
  • So far, their admitted students support has been good. Lots of informational emails, zoom meetings, packets. Their graduation rate is also higher than Bard’s, so maybe there’s better student support at school as well? (86% 8 year graduation rate)
  • Really fun nerdy school culture. There’s competitions for who can be the most eco friendly, classes taught by students about their favorite interests, has student run non-profits for cheaper living and better food, free thrift stores, etc
  • Amazing history. First school to admit black students and women in a co-ed program, and was involved in the Underground Railroad

Oberlin College Cons:

  • In a red state (OH) surrounded by majority red voting areas. I’m a woman and part of the LGBT+ community, and consider myself really progressive, so I’m worried about living under the laws of a red state and being harassed by locals (when I was there, some right-winged people from a nearby town came to try to shutdown a student protest)
  • The dorms were REALLY warm, very stuffy and hot
  • The area is really flat. I’ve lived in the mountains my whole life, and I love mountains (the look of them, exploring, etc). Like it’s incredibly flat :sob:, the highest point in the county is 45ft
  • People say there is cliqueyness, but it’s mostly because people are shy. At admitted students day, I did notice all the people from NYC tended to stick together and wouldn’t engage in that long of conversations with anyone else
  • Ohio isn’t a state I want to live/do grad school in
  • Farther from my cousin, but still close enough for it to be easier to go there than to go all the way home

Tiebreaking considerations:
I just want to go where I’d be happy, comfortable, and make lots of great friends and memories. I know in the grand scheme of colleges, neither of these are the most prestigious or well known, but Oberlin tends to be the better regarded one. However, I’m really trying to ignore that and not think of prestige, and just go where I’d be the happiest.

Addendum: it’s incredibly important to me that I’m in a very progressive environment where I can feel safe, as well where as people of all races, genders, orientations, etc can feel safe and comfortable as well

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Sounds like both can win although you rightly note the state politic potential issue.

Either way, please only go if affordable.

You note the ‘better’ but better doesn’t mean affordable.

I hope the prices come in well. Of the same, then it sounds like both work.

Personally I think Oberlin is stronger but that’s subjective.

But you want nearby relatives and Bard wins there for comfort.

Best of luck.

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Assuming the financials are more or less the same, I would encourage you to choose Oberlin. You seem more drawn to that school, and students there seem happier (everyone I know who’s attended Oberlin has loved it). From what I know, Oberlin has more resources and can offer you more opportunities. (I’m a little biased here - my S26 just visited Bard and really wanted to like it, but it just seemed like its resources couldn’t match many of the other schools he’d seen, and it makes a difference in your undergrad experience. He is definitely applying to Oberlin, though.)

The red state/blue state thing is important, but Oberlin is in a blue island in a red state (conservative protesters notwithstanding). Much of Ohio is more purple. I’m not discounting the danger of anti-LGBTQ state laws and am sympathetic to your concerns, but as a private institution, you’ll be somewhat insulated from some categories of state laws. Cleveland is blue, too.

Yes, it’s flat. I’m from California and have lived in the Midwest – and came to love it. You come to appreciate a different kind of beauty when you live there.

You don’t have to worry that where you attend college will pigeonhole you into a specific location or region for post-college life. That’s simply not a factor. Yes, they’ll have especially good regional career/internship connections, but Oberlin’s a nationally known and respected liberal arts school – from there, you can go anywhere. If there’s a list of recent internships, and grad school/job placements, you’ll see what I mean. In fact, this is an even stronger argument for Oberlin than Bard – if you have no plans to live in the Midwest later on, this is a chance to experience something a little different and gain some perspective.

Hot dorms will be a nuisance for the first month or so of school, and maybe for the last few weeks. For most of the year, this will not be a problem. Buy a fan.

The winters aren’t that harsh. It’s Ohio, not Vermont. Buy a coat, some boots, and some gloves.

Short terms are a huge plus! My D goes to a school with a spring short term, not a winter term, but it’s the same thing (their winter semester just ends earlier). It’s a great opportunity to take a fun class, bond with friends, or study away without committing to a whole semester (or you can do both!). It’s really a big advantage.

I hope this helps! Congratulations on having fine choices!

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Thank you so much!

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This is such an incredibly helpful response, thank you so much! I guess it would be pretty interesting to live in the Midwest for awhile- it was a complete shock when I visited hahah, but I liked it. It’d be fun to explore it a bit more. And Oberlin does seem to have a lot more resources than Bard :slight_smile:

And I hope S26’s college search is going well!

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Thank you, and good luck!

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Oberlin, the town, feels progressive to me. We spent a week there. The farmland has its own kind of beauty (we drove around at sunset). We saw professors and students having a meal together. Lots of towns folk on bicycles. Students really support each others’ art/music/theater. We loved the vibe. That part of Ohio is more blue but with daughters myself and one trans, I get the hesitation. I personally would feel more than safe with them at Oberlin.

My kid felt Bard was too isolated but I hear people love it. My kid had me keep driving!

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I agree that Oberlin is more resourced than Bard, and likely has more rigorous academics, at least in some majors.

Lorain County (Oberlin’s county) did vote for Trump this past election, and you will see Trump signs all around the area. Further, Ohio politics continue to get more restrictive regarding female and LGBTQ issues. The latest is the new bathroom law which impacts Oberlin…no more shared gender bathrooms, which especially poses an issue for trans students (the law requires students to use the bathroom that matches their gender assigned at birth.) Oberlin can’t protect the students from what is happening politically in the state. https://www.oberlin.edu/center-intercultural-engagement/ohio-law-and-campus-restrooms

The reason for this is likely explained by the fact that Oberlin meets full need for all students, and Bard doesn’t.

I haven’t gotten the feel that Oberlin is cliquey, but there is an athlete/non-athlete divide. The largest I’ve seen at any LAC, relatively little intermingling between those groups and relatively little school spirit.

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Thank you for responding! I visited Oberlin a few days ago and was actually really shocked that I didn’t see any Trump flags on the way to/from the airport, or while walking around the area

Ahh that makes sense. I have seen that Bard hikes up their tuition prices a lot each year which sucks :,(

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Interesting!! Thank you so much

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However, attending a private college or university does not prevent the effect of some state laws, like this one: https://www.oberlin.edu/center-intercultural-engagement/ohio-law-and-campus-restrooms

Movement Advancement Project | Snapshot: LGBTQ Equality by State may be helpful in listing other kinds of state laws that the OP may want to know about.

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You’re right – it doesn’t protect against bathroom laws, or any law that might govern the name and sex on a state ID, etc. I was thinking more of curriculum, academic departments, counseling services, contents of the library, student organizations, and other academic resources, which might be more affected by state law at a public institution.

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I didn’t know the movement advancement website existed!! Thank you so much, very helpful

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We visited quite a few years ago. I think that even though Oberlin itself (the town and college) have a liberal vibe, state laws are indeed something to be concerned about.

Sent you a PM (upper right, green/envelope)

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You made my day, kid.

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:blue_heart::blue_heart: thank you

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TBH, I don’t think you can go too far wrong with either choice. As a native New Yorker, Bard has been on my radar for nearly sixty years. And Oberlin has had one of the most interesting roller coaster rides of any American college I can think of during the same period. Btw, I thought your descriptions of both were spot on.

In terms of resources, I don’t think either of them have money to burn; both have to administer their overhead costs and payrolls pretty tightly in order to keep their endowments healthy. Oberlin just got through an incredibly toxic lawsuit with a local small business owner that did not reflect well on either the town or the college. Bard has been led by a single individual for the past half-century which is surely a record for any college presidency. And he clearly has George Soros’ ear.

Personally, I would discount your parents being too close by. Lots of people live within 20 minutes of where they attend college. Discuss it with them.

The cliquey-ness thing is a much more difficult situation to assess. It may be a reflection of the schools; it may be a reflection of your past experiences. Or a little of both. At Bard, you may get that impression from the way the student residences which are small to begin with, tend to disappear into the trees. But eventually, you’ll be living in one of those houses yourself and you’ll have a pretty close-knit clique of your own.

Similarly, I love me some Oberlin. They are the granddaddy of the small, progressive colleges which at one point all ranked very highly in the USNews poll before the magazine’s shtick got all tangled up in weights and measures and click-bait on the internet. It still can’t be beat for its home-grown music scene and access to a walkable downtown.

So, flip a coin and hang on!

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Thank you so much!

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My daughter graduated Oberlin in 2023 and had a fantastic experience. In fact, she went into her college search sure that she’d only want to consider an urban campus, but Oberlin changed her mind! We were initially concerned as well regarding the political climate of Ohio in general, but Oberlin itself is very blue, and the town/community is extremely supportive of Oberlin and always felt pretty open/accepting. We/our daughter never felt the “redness” if that makes sense. She did go to Cleveland quite a bit over her four years for some great music/art- super cultural city that is so close by! Also, as you mentioned, the Cleveland airport is super close and has surprisingly great flight options around the country.
Oberlin really has such an intelligent, creative, student body! Literally, they’d be at a party, and an incredibly talented group of jazz students would start playing- you’re constantly surrounded by music and art. The radio station is very active and vibrant as well- my daughter was involved with it all four years.
Also, in regards to hot dorms, I’d say that’s a pretty common thing at many schools. I don’t remember my daughter overly complaining about that at Oberlin. We did love the four years of guaranteed housing too…

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Oberlin is an excellent school for progressive ideology. Many professsors are truly activists and will make sure all students who fall under the oppressed are celebrated by the community. Cancel culture is strong here, like many other well-known liberal arts colleges, so there is no way any under-represented group would feel out of sorts here.

I have heard the same is true at Bard. But, alas, NY State doesn’t have the same state laws as Ohio. In general, the climate at both Bard and Oberlin is happening at a lot of small Liberal Arts Colleges.

The difference? Oberlin students are not immune from the realities of differing opinions because the school is located in a conservative state. The Bard students are sheltered from this harsh reality far more so.

What is horrifying about this situation is that varying opinion is not allowed. Students are trained in cancel culture in these small schools. It comes down to, “Do they want to have friends or not?”

Under no circumstances is this about the LGBTQ community. I am an ally and raised my child to be one, too. Nope. This is about varying opinions on many topics that truly are nuanced but the nuance is not allowed to be discussed in a college setting, which should be open to intellectual debate.

It is Hegel dialogue, all in binary thinking. This is what is happening in progressive ideology and on progressive college campuses across the country.

It is a choice.