Of the following schools, which are the best for pre-law? Penn, JHU, Duke, and Northwrstern. I’m trying to decide where to apply ED. Any help would be great.
There’s no such thing as a best pre-law school and no such thing as a best “pre-law” major. Law school’s don’t really care about school name either. Literally all law schools care about is LSAT and GPA, with LSAT being the most important.
@WildestDream Thank you for the information, as I was not aware of this. Do you think, however, that one or two of these schools may be more highly regarded in the liberal arts/social sciences?
They are all very similar. I would pick the school that you feel comfortable at and one that offers you a decent financial aid package.
If you have the grades for these schools, you probably have decent chances nice scholarships at other schools as well. Don’t overlook these offers. Law school is expensive and the legal market is not strong as it used to be. I would not feel comfortable carrying six figures of undergrad debt in addition to six figures of law school debt.
@WildestDream I’m a white middle/upper class male, so I’m unlikely to get financial aid. Basically I need to choose the school with the best ED chance. I’m in love with Penn but the 23% ED rate is discouraging to Northwesterns 35% where I have three alumni connections.
I’m biased towards NU if you can tell by my avatar; they are very similar pre-professional and social schools.
@WildestDream Haha ya I noticed that! Thanks for your input.
Anybody else with advice?
My advice is to use google and do some serious research on the economics of law school. Not discouraging you from law school, but the schools you listed cost upward of $200K for undergrad. Are your parents willing to pay this? If not, how will you pay? If its loans, remember that law school will cost you almost as much and job prospects are weak right now.
I’m pretty baffled that someone interested in law school (that has google) doesn’t know that basic facts - Pre Law is not a major, major doesn’t really matter- GPA and LSAT do. This is basic common Law School info. Do your online research- you will see that the best undergrad is one that you can score the highest GPA in and come out with the least amount of debt.
@suzyQ7 I appreciate your input, but I’m not an idiot in any way shape or form. I am going to be an economics major, and yes my parents will be paying for my tuition.
I’d recommend you search these resources for your interests in economics programs and pre-law:
“US Economics Departments” or its complement, “Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges,” IDEAS
“Writing in the Disciplines,” US News (Consistent practice in writing can be excellent preparation for a law career.)
@MrAustere Your response to this:
“There’s no such thing as a best pre-law school and no such thing as a best “pre-law” major. Law school’s don’t really care about school name either. Literally all law schools care about is LSAT and GPA, with LSAT being the most important”
was this:
"@WildestDream Thank you for the information, as I was not aware of this. Do you think, however, that one or two of these schools may be more highly regarded in the liberal arts/social sciences? "
so I responded accordingly.
Also, on this thread on 9/4/2016 you said you were interested in Med School. Are you still unsure of what you want - med school or law school?
Not true- it’s called merit money, and if you are a strong contender at the schools you list you are a strong contender for merit money at schools a notch or two down.
However, if your parents can and will pay for both undergrad and grad school you don’t need to worry about that. If your parents are assuming that you will pay for grad school (worth asking the question now!) then cutting a deal with them on saving some of that undergrad money so that it can go towards grad school is worth considering.
As for which will be more helpful for law school- in themselves those four are much of a muchness prestige-wise in the ‘liberal arts’ arena.
If you are really into choosing your college experience based on small statistical differences, however, you might consider where your odds of getting a high GPA are stronger. For example, JHU has the least grade inflation of those 4 (2006 avg GPA was 3.23 v a 2015 average of 3.38), followed by Penn (3.32* to 3.44) and Northwestern (3.39 to 3.48), with Duke having the most grade inflation (3.42 to 3.51), (from [here](http://www.gradeinflation.com/)).
*actually from 2000; they didn’t have the # from 2006
@suzyQ7 I can see how my response to WildestDream could be misinterpreted. I was referring to the part about GPA and LSAT however. Yes I’m very unsure of what I want. It’s scary because I had said I was gonna be a doctor since I was about 5, but as I get older I realize that my interests and personality align more with that of a lawyer.
@collegemom3717 Thank you for the well thought out response. Money will not be a factor in my decisions. I’m basically looking for a school that can prepare me for medicine, law, or whatever pretty equally.
It’s true that law schools look almost exclusively at GPA and LSAT especially when comparing students from schools as good as Penn/Northwestern/JHU/Duke. That being said, each school might provide different advantages to you as an individual applicant that might help you stand out. For example, as a consequence of Penn’s One University Policy, you are encouraged to take classes and use the resources of all of Penn’s undergrad/graduate and professional schools. That means you are encouraged to take classes at Penn Law (consistently Ranked #7 over the past few years), to make connections to faculty members in the Law school and to do research with law students/law professors all while in undergrad. Additionally, Penn law even offers some courses that are cross-listed between the Law School and the College of Arts & Sciences to further entice undergrads to take advantage of the immense resources of the University as a whole. It also creates a welcome environment to undergrads hoping to explore. Those opportunities do matter when it comes to law school admissions because if you have the same LSAT/GPA as a student from another school (which is very likely), but you have a recommendation from a professor in the law school with whom you did research or took several classes, that can definitely sway admissions committees at peer law schools. It can also help you ensure that your interest really is focused on law since law school is very expensive and challenging. Similar opportunities aren’t available at JHU since they don’t have a law school or at Northwestern since their law school is located in Chicago and NU is in Evanston (you could probably make it work but it won’t be as simple as having Penn Law right on campus). It’s possible at Duke but undergrads aren’t really as welcome in the Law school. Compare Penn’s One University Policy and cross listed courses between the undergraduate and law schools and Duke’s policy for undergrad’s taking Duke Law School (ranked #11) courses: “On rare occasions, an advanced undergraduate may request enrollment in a professional school course.” (https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/grad-professional-courses). Not really a ringing endorsement of undergrads exploring the resources of the law school… And certainly not as easily or accessible as simply signing up for a Penn Law course during your normal registration process.
Additionally, your undergrad can play a role if you want to do a clerkship in that a lot of Federal Judges choose their clerks from both their undergrad and law school alma maters. A lot of the 3rd circuit Court of Appeals judges attended Penn undergrad or Penn Law. That can translate into more opportunities to clerk in a desirable location since clerkship opportunities are usually based more on the preferences of the judge than anything else. If you have a connection to a judge, even a small one like “i attended penn undergrad and she attended Penn law,” it can be the difference between landing the clerkship and not landing it in such a highly competitive environment. Being attached to one of the best law schools in the world thus has its benefits.
And finally, consider where each school is sending their successful law applicants. The most commonly attended law schools by penn undergrads in the 2013-2014 school year were: Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Temple, GW, Cornell, Yale, UVA, Duke, Villanova, Michigan and Fordham. For 2014-2015 it was: Columbia, NYU, Penn, Harvard, Temple, Georgetown, Stanford, Chicago, GW, Berkeley, UVA, and Yale. Admissions officers have relationships with schools and it helps that Penn has a longstanding history of sending kids to these top schools. Be sure to compare these stats to the other schools you’re looking at. If other schools don’t publish them, consider why that might be the case given that Colleges are obsessed with promoting their good outcomes… http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/20142015lawstats.php
http://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/preprofadvising/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2016/04/2014.2015.law_.school.summary.Report.pdf
At the end of the day, all four schools will position you very well for admission to law school. And more importantly, your GPA and LSAT will be the most important factors without exception. But in the case of a close matchup between you and another applicant for admissions or highly coveted jobs after, the opportunities and connections you built at Penn could make all the difference.
Umm… the top law schools absolutely do care about the quality of an undergraduate school. It is viewed as a proxy for rigor and quality of competition. They care much more than medical schools appear to do. A student with a 3.8 from NorthEastWestValley State will not be viewed equally to a student with a 3.8 from UChicago or Princeton.
However, there is no functional difference between Penn, JHU, Duke and Northwestern for this purpose - go for whatever one seems like the best fit for you.
For choices that would also be good for pre-med, you can read through “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges with Great Pre-med Programs.”
@PennCAS2014 Omg, thank you for all the amazing information. I pretty much know that Penn is the best of the schools in terms of networking and such. I would absolutely love to go to Penn. The only reason I’m slightly turned away from it is the relatively low ED acceptance rate. If I apply there and don’t get in, that I will then be less likely to get into a top 15 school because applying and getting accepted early is my best chance at doing so.
@ThankYouforHelp That’s what I had assumed.