@MaineLonghorn : Makes me so sad to hear that. Let’s hope he’ll cycle back around to it eventually, and the sabbatical from running will forestall the kinds of chronic strains and pulls that older runners (like my dh) who kept running all the way through seem to inevitably experience.
@classicalmama, thanks! That’s a good point about taking a break. I didn’t start running myself until I was 46, so I have relatively “fresh” legs. I’m slow as all get out, but I enjoy it.
Are you saying that you helped a girl ‘start’ lacrosse and in one year she’s being recruited by Williams and Amherst? Was she already a good player in another sport, like soccer?
I disagree that the way into an elite school is through girls lacrosse. All the prep schools in the NE have lacrosse. All the Ivies recruit (in their very own special way) hs sophomores and have commits 1.5 years before the applications can even be submitted. You can’t start playing as a high school junior and expect to be recruited. Some of the elite teams aren’t that good (Williams is not a top team), but they don’t have many recruiting spots available (maybe 2 per year) so playing a sport to maybe get 1 spot is even more of a long shot than just sending an app to Harvard. The coach doesn’t get to say to Admissions “Hey, I need a middie, can you let these 4 girls in?” It doesn’t work that way. If he wants a middie, he better use that one slot he has for a good one (who also has good grades and scores).
That’s why I say play for ‘now’, play because you like it and want to hang out with friends and like the exercise. Or play flute or trumpet or trombone and hope the school needs a flute or trumpet or trombone player.
Thank you for the well intentioned comments.
This thread came as a result of a question on the main forum about which women’s sport is the best for scholarship money. I was having talking to my SILs today and they both mentioned getting their kids more involved and we discussed the posted question. One comment made was that we know very few kids who it has worked out for. Even ones who are talented and athletic. It seems either they do not want the school that wants them (in one case great schools but he wanted to be an engineer not attend a LAC), they are great when younger but somehow lose it before senior year, a major injury or a bunch of minor ones because the kid while able to run or hit, is not able to take the constant physical stress, and any number of other things. However, it might just be the people I know. It seems to work for many others.
I absolutely agree that being an athlete is not crucial for college but after reading countless threads describing people as a"unhooked" if they are not legacies, ATHLETES or URMs, why not create a hook if you can while getting your kid fit and well rounded at the same time? Especially if the kid is not that interested in any particular sport and has tried a bunch. All the kids play the musical instrument of their choice and one of the families had the experience of being the parent of the top 1% unhooked kid who ended up doing ok with his college acceptances but only after a very stressful senior year.
I came here seeking information. Researching options. For example, one of my friends switched her D from tennis to squash. Unfortunately this was a bad move (tennis was not working out anyway) because there are so many international college recruits in squash. The fact that girls can still get decent golf scholarships is great information. I will encourage them to look into that. I will suggest track and field events as well. I think both girls tried Lax and hated it, neither is physically aggressive. How is girls softball as an option if you want to stay in the Northeast or mid west? I had always assumed boys baseball would be very popular and hard to be considered for a Dlll team. All those kids playing little league?
Any other sports that they are not too late?
They are not the type of parents to push a kid in a direction the kid does not want to go.
Ten years old. And you worry it might be too late.
Sad.
Surely their schools have sports and you can look up which prestige colleges field which sports, recruit, and maybe offer money.
^ I just wanted to get some ideas from people who have BTDT. Their parents can analyze the number of scholarships but nothing will tell you at what level each of those recruited athelets played at unless you know something about the game. For example for most top colleges, even the star of a girls tennis team that makes it to a large state’s finals is not recruitable unless she is at least a 4 star (I know 2 different unrelated girls for whom tennis did not work out for.). Since these families are looking for NEW sports to try, how would they know that tennis might not be a great choice unless the kid just loves it and knows it will just be for fun (both girls have no interest in tennis).
There are many sports and activities that if someone wanted to make a career it would be too late at 10 while at 4 or 5 it could have been fine, a number of musical instruments as well. Tennis, possibly golf (Tiger Woods age 18 months?!), ballet, gymnastics (Olga Korbet was how old?), ice skating, swimming probably, skiing, piano, violin, possibly chess. Its not sad at all, just a fact. Sure they can take ice skating or gymnastics if it interests them (ballet was tried and did not stick) and they can do it recreationally. For example the kids ski but they are smart enough to realize that they do not live close enough to a ski area to practice on a regular basis so it just something fun they do once in a while. There are exceptions, I am told Michael Jordan did not play basketball until high school, no idea if that is legend or not, However, these kids are not Michael Jordan.
@MaineLonghorn Like i said tho, running is more about natural talent and gift than work ethic. Your son was recruited for rice, but he also ran 20 miles in 8th grade.
How about your second son?
This isn’t a personal attack, but in most sports, the parents that don’t encourage their kids and rather cheer them on even if they’re last are the ones that don’t amount to much.
The parents who are always positive and helpful but make clear that winning is important are the ones that give the best environment to succeed.
For everyone, my friend has a 3.85 uw gpa and a 1400 sat. Coaches have 2 automatic in spots, but for kids with stats in the top half of the stats, athletic factor gets them automatically in.
They’re called a band recruits, ones that the schools let in simply because they have the grades. Consider it the ultimate extracurricular.
@SeekingPam, I understand what you are saying. If they are going to do a sport anyway, why not do one that will give them a hook? Makes sense, but there are just not that many spots (or slots or coach’s picks) out there and they go to the most talented kids, not kids who just play baseball or swing a tennis racket. I just don’t think it will work that way for a kid to decide on a sport and think that will give a hook. Just playing tennis or golf or lax is not a hook. Even saying you want to play in college isn’t a hook. You have to be good AND have the stats to get into the schools without a slot or hook or coach’s nod as there just aren’t that many of them at any D3 school. The lax team might need 10 new players but the coach only gets 2 slots for recruits because the other coaches want new players and swimmers and skaters too. The other 8 players will come from kids who got in on their own and tried out for the team once admitted and many were told by the coach “you get in, you’ve got a spot.” The fact that they are athletes and were the captain of the team and played on a regional team helps in the EC’s, but the coach can’t jam 10 players through admissions just cause he needs them. The athletes are encouraged to apply ED because it increases their chances, but ED also increases the legacy’s chances and even the unhooked applicant’s chances.
The MVP for our girls state lacrosse game is going to Penn. The best player in the state. She might have gotten one of the slots, I don’t know, but she’s the best player and that’s how good you have to be.
The ‘girls who golf’ stories were around when my daughter was 2. Scholarships going to waste, there for the asking. Well, not really. The girls still had to be good, have a handicap in the single digits, and perhaps not go to Stanford (where the scholarships are not going to waste) but to Northern Ariz or Louisiana Tech. You don’t shoot under 80 if you don’t put in the time and the girls who aren’t shooting 80 aren’t getting scholarships.
That was NOT how it worked for my daughter or her teammates. No automatic entry into any of the LACs or Ivies. No 2 automatic spots. Those 2 still had to have stats within the range the schools set.
.
Golf is a little hard to count on for a tip where the season is short. I always wonder if the kids who claim to live and breathe it are serious about an Ivy.
Women’s crew.
The athletic recruits at my girls’ school.were soccer players. But part of this was that the team was notable, played on a high level, got attention. The team matters.
There are so many good and wise thoughts on this thread. I’ve gone through the recruiting process twice with one D landing in Division 1 and the other in D3.
So much of recruiting is beyond passion and skill. There’s also finding a good match and fit with a school and the absolute folly of being in the right place at the right time, when trying to connect with a recruiting coach.
I suppose if you really want to strategize, look at the rosters. If a school has a smaller roster size than others in its conference, there might be an extra boost for the athletes there. Conversely, admissions may have minimal interest in athletics as a mission and may not look at the coach’s list.
Sorry about that finger glitch. Here is my post.
- If scholarships are the goal, athletics are a bad idea. There are far more academic scholarships than athletic scholarships (not to say they don't exist, there are just way fewer than you think). Take all the money you would use for sport and put it into tutors.
- Pushing athletics as a means to get into college has a downside. What if it doesn't work. The kid knows he or she is working the athletic angle to get in and it doesn't help. You have to wonder how that impacts things. I am not saying that the "hey, that's life" lesson has no value. I am just wondering about forcing that on a kid without the passion for a sport to begin with.
- I think the folks on this forum encourage kids and parents who love their sport to carry on through college. There are plenty of success stories. I'll bet there also are success stories of flute players, actors or science geeks who used that to help get into college. If the kids are doing what they love, it will help them make important decisions about life.
- Squash was always viewed as the go to sport for recruiting where acquired skills could help getting a kid into college -- not sure if this is still true. LAX is growing. I never thought that LAX was a tough sport to conquer. The first year was tough, but it you have speed and hand to eye coordination, not so hard. Certain skills (like alternative hand skills) need to be established early, like switch hitting in baseball. With women's LAX, height is a distinct advantage. To be very good at field hockey is extraordinarily hard -- maybe that is why there aren't that many girls doing it. I have also heard that the various equestrian programs look very hard for recruits. But, if you are going to do that right, expect to dig way down into the holes of your pocket to cover that nut. And, you don't learn skills for that in a year or two -- maybe in five years working at it at least 3 to 4 times a week.
Regarding women’s lacrosse, if that is route you want to go (which it sounds like it isn’t, but just in case), you will need to join a good club that has a track record of getting girls seen and recruited. Most of the recruiting action takes place in the Summer and Fall so not having a club team to play on during those seasons is a fatal handicap. College coaches do not generally attend HS games, except maybe a state championship here and there.
Expect to spend at least $5-10 per year, depending on your location and where your D is interested in playing. It is a growing sport, unlike many at the collegiate level, so in that sense it may be “easier” than others. However, there are still many more players than spots, certainly way more than spots with money. That being said, Ivies and other high-academic schools have to choose recruits based on grades, so some less-talented players get a spot or two there to balance out the AI or team scores. They won’t play much though. A typical class at an established program is 6-8 spots.
To be a high-level women’s lacrosse player is not easy and it takes years of practice. Height is an advantage for defenders, but not as much for other positions. Speed is much more important than height; a combination of speed, skills, and lax IQ is your best bet as at least two of those can be taught.
@SeekingPam: In your OP, you state:
“The parents attended Top 30, Division 3 or Ivy colleges and would like their kids at similar schools. Athletic scholarships are not the goal, physical fitness, learning to play through adversity and general sportsmanship is and recruitment at a Dlll school eventually would be a bonus”.
In Post #10, you further assert “The parents are terrified of the lottery that top tier schools have become and to the extent they can get their kids active and help them with college, why not.”
But in Post #23, you write “They are not the type of parents to push a kid in a direction the kid does not want to go.”
This comment seems to tempers the earlier assertions that they “would like their kids at similar schools” and “are terrified of the lottery”.
So I’m sort of with the people who are saying that college prospects are a terrible reason to get a 10 year old involved in sports/it’s a sad place we’ve come to when we’re worried that 10 might be too late.
However, I also realize that the parents are probably just trying to help give their kids every advantage they can. And don’t we all do this in our own way?
But the thing that really concerns me are your comments that underscore the idea that “they’ve tried a lot of things but nothing really stuck”.
As the parent of a nationally ranked athlete, what I read in those comments is that A) the kids weren’t really into the sport to begin with, and/or B) the parents have let the kids drop a sport too easily.
There have been multiple times when my daughter has thought about quitting. But generally what has happened is that just as she was plateauing, she had a breakthrough that showed her work was paying off/that maybe she had some talent.
So, while we’ve never really had to push her to stick with it, I think there can be a tendency for some parents to let their kids opt. out before they really have invested the time it takes to develop some competency/skill. Sort of the opposite of “learning to play through adversity”.
While we love the sport of fencing and it is a large part of our family life these days, I will advise that there is a ton of losing that’s part of the sport, even at the level at which our daughter competes. After all, only one person can win a tournament…and even then, that person could theoretically lose a bunch of bouts in the preliminary “pool” phase of a competition (happened to a Junior silver medalist at the most recent JOs).
For me, one of the main things that sports teaches kids (and adults even) is resilience and perseverance. Allowing kids to try a zillion sports then dropping them when they are no longer “fun” does not teach either, IMO. I’d advise the parents to stop chasing the magic bullet and perhaps review the sports they tried — to assess which might be the best option to return to. If it is a sport the parents are into (either as competitors or spectators), so much the better in terms of how much time the family will want to dedicate to the sport, IMO.
Best of luck to your brothers/sisters and their kids.
Parent of D3 make recruit here – simply being good at a sport does not make one competitive as a recruit at Ivies or NESCAC (neither which give athletic scholarships). Kids who are recruited are generally top in their region, not just good contributors to their high school team. Fior girls, at D1 schools which do give athletic scholarships --Northwestern, Stanfird etc – those are pretty much done by the end of 10th grade in soccer and, I hear, lacrosse is similar. And among kids who are serious about continuing to play their sport competitively in college, those kids are driven internally to practice because the sport is just part of who they are, Kids pushed by parents rarely have the internal drive to go what it takes because they are doing it to please someone else, not themselves.
Being active, getting and staying fit, helps with mental resilience and overall health – those are reasons to get a kid involved in sports, not hoping that they will have a “hook” as a recruit.
You asked, and we gave them to you though it’s maybe not the answer you want. You’ve already stated that the kids you care about haven’t shown a particular gift for any of the kinds of activities that require early dedication. Several of us who have kids who were just like that at then responded and suggested that there was no direct path to college athletics for our kids–just lots of exploration and fun, which it sounds like the kids are already getting. So good job, parents!
Why is that not helpful?
A lot more harm than good can come from obsessing about college admits before kids have even reached junion high school. A lot of good can come from unstructured free time and time to experiment, fail, and grow.
I would not (and did not) involve my child in a sport for college recruiting purposes. There are sports that are hard to break into, even in middle school, such as soccer, where elite travel teams have been intact for years already (although side-bar, the birthdate change is upsetting that apple cart this year.) If you’re doing it for fitness and fun – both excellent reasons – I’d suggest that first of all, you think about the kids themselves.
Are they okay with physical contact? If the answer is no, I’d look at sports like tennis, golf, swimming, running, baseball, fencing, archery, skiing, equestrian, rock-climbing – all those ones that don’t involve a lot of jostling (although some require quite a bit of boldness.)
How are their eye-hand coordination skills? Depending on how well developed they are, sports like baseball or lax could be disastrous at this point
Are they flexible? Gymnastics, diving, dance, cheer, skating, all cater to kids to are.
But also, I’d let the enjoyment dictate which way to go. Don’t worry if they don’t seem to be great at it. There are plenty of kids who “bloom” later than the professionalized world of youth sports would dictate. I know athletic kids who were recruited for college sports that they picked up in high school. I also know very talented athletes who were burnt out or injured by college, thereby crashing those scholarship dreams.
It’s a gift to kids to have a “life” sport – one that they can enjoy into adulthood. If it leads somewhere else, great, but if it leads only there, no loss.
And forgot to mention sailing… GREAT life sport!
@gardenstategal: I would not put fencing into the “non-contact” category. At all. 
Mine adored lax and field hockey, were crappy at both. If you want them to enjoy and get the exercise, that’s what matters. And learning to work with a coach, the team, and learn about winning and losing. Much the same as when we were kids.
Let them explore and set an expectation to pick one or two and stick with it for a few seasons, at least. If they were already driven and gifted, you’d know. (Even then, the drive and pleasure could fade.)
All this is a bit like trying to guess which musical instrument, hoping for Julliard. Any parent concerned about chances can broaden their understanding, help round their kids in solid ways.
@sevendad, you’re right in the boldness in fencing. I was thinking about that knock-down/full body-slamming jostling, which some kids relish while others find it nothing short of terrifying.
Fencing is very cool – athletic, cerebral, graceful. I tried to get my kid to try it to no avail… Must be fun at that level!