Bitter...

Parent Cafe
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<p>A very similar thing happened to me (also this year).</p>

<p>I’m salutatorian with 1530, 800, 800, 800, 790, 5, 5, 5, 4 significant leadership positions, and first place in a national competition, and I was rejected everywhere but 3 of my colleges: NYU, UC Berkeley, Imperial College (London).</p>

<p>MIT, Oxford, Stanford, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton, Brown, Chicago, LSE all rejected me. It turns out I got screwed coz I don’t have a green card yet I’m from the US.</p>

<p>Of course it’s depressing. Less qualified kids from my school got in over me, and in my case it wasn’t even my fault.</p>

<p>However, the schools you got in to are still really good, and there are advantages to going to a slightly lesser college. Firstly, you get all sorts of advantages coz the schools want you (“Scholars…”, money, benefits, research opportunities, recs from professors saying “one of the best in years”), and even with less work than MIT would take, you can be valedictorian of the class and get in to one of these amazing grad schools.</p>

<p>After all, what really matters is grad school.
Your first employer will care much more about grad than undergrad, and it’s much better to go from a good school to a great school than the other way. Many of the things in your grad school app will still be the same regardless of where you (like standardized testing), yet it will be much easier to get in from a slightly lower school, coz fewer other kids will be applying, and they won’t be as bright as you.</p>

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<p>How did that green card thing work…are you American? Just curious, as you said “from the US”…what does that mean…asking because this is an issue that should be explained so it doesn’t hurt other kids acceptances.</p>

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<p>The current disappointment is very real and not going to an Ivy feels like a great loss. The truth, however, is that the research evidence shows that where one goes to school has little effect on future success. It simply doesn’t matter. There is some evidence that grad school matters, but not undergrad. For example 61% of the students at Harvard Law are not from the Ivy League.</p>

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<p>“The truth, however, is that the research evidence shows that where one goes to school has little effect on future success.”</p>

<p>the truth? Anyway, then why does everyone want to go to Ivy League for undergraduate, if it has no significance in later education?</p>

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<p>davidn08. do you really think you can go to an ivy league, i mean, with this arrogance and, let’s say, girlishness?</p>

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<p>I guess this means that the school looked at you as an international applicant for admissions which is a large pool of applicnats vying for just a few slots.</p>

<p>You applications were kind of top heavy at schools where there aretruly a large number of applicants for also a few spots many of your choices are crap shoots for everyone as close to 85% or more of the applicants are rejected. It is not a matter of kids getting in with "lower scores ’ than you as you should remember that schools build classes, while you have good grades and stats, that is only part of the equation. There are the subjective factors that are also considered in to whether or not a student is admitted</p>

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<p>to answer a previous question… i’m a danish citizen and have lived in the US for almost 3 years. i think that before 9/11 i’d have had my green card by now, coz my mother’s a professor, and it’s supposed to be speedy for them.</p>

<p>secondly, this post isn’t about me. i’m not arrogant, i’m trying to make this person feel better. those are my stats and when some1 announces their stats, that’s stating objective facts/truth, and is not arrogance.</p>

<p>obviously stuff like recs/essays counts too, but i happen to know mine were great for a number of reasons.
even if they were only “very good”, “outstanding” ones can’t get some1 with 150pts less on the SAT and rank 5% lower and by far lower SAT2s and fewer APs get chosen over the higher person just coz of the subjective stuff.</p>

<p>yes, i got “screwed” by not having a green card, because there’s no way all those schools would have rejected me if i had had it, but since i don’t, they did.</p>

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<p>awfully arrogant thinking</p>

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<p>Ummm, its called following the rules. And right now, in this day and age, with no green card, how are you going to school…student visa? You should take care of business right away.</p>

<p>And yes, you need to take yourself down a notch. You will be going to school with people not “at your level” and need to learn to work with all those “lesser” people around you. Cause if you act the way your write, it will come across.</p>

<p>And yes, just “outstanding” recs can get someone in with lower scores. So can humility, caring, compassion, being a good person and being a person who undertands that everyone has something that makes them special, not just stats.</p>

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<p>“Ummm, its called following the rules. And right now, in this day and age, with no green card, how are you going to school…student visa? You should take care of business right away.”</p>

<p>Excuse me, if you want to criticize, please know what you’re talking about. We got visas before we moved here or we’d be illegal residents. It takes years to get green cards, and we applied on the first day that we legally could. Without a green card I’m an international applicant.</p>

<p>I don’t question that if I went to MIT, I’d struggle to remain “average”, but I do know that people that were clearly less qualified than me at my school were chosen over me at some of these schools, and that if I had had my green card, it would not have happened. You don’t know anything about me with regards to the last paragraph, except for the fact that in this post I’m being honest and not sugercoating to avoid hurting people’s feelings.</p>

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<p>davidn08,
I follow the UChicago and MIT boards and I agree that the green card (or lack thereof) was probably a major issue. Congrats on your acceptances, though - have you decided where you are attending?</p>

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<p>scherzo123,
let me start by saying that I was rejected from Yale, and I recieved the letter from Y on Monday April 4th. I was afraid to face my mom because she did all she could (she is a single parent) to make my life better. I felt like I failed her, so I did not show her the letter right away.<br>
Today is Saturday, and I let my mom know about the rejection…she was sad. However, you know what I realized? I realized that my mom did not feel sad b/c I “failed to live up to her dreams” (as I viewed it), but b/c she thought that Yale was my dream and b/c she thought that I was upset about the rejection.<br>
In your original post you mantioned that your parents were sad, but I am sure that they feel that way simply b/c they see how the rejections affect you --not b/c you let them down.</p>

<p>i know that the subject was already exhasuted…I just wanted to put my two cents in…</p>

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<p>SS1987,
What a kind and supportive post. Hope you have had other successes in admissions…</p>

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<p>davidn08. haha</p>

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<p>Thank you, robyrm,
right now I am in a process of deciding between two LACs that I am absolutely thrilled about attending.</p>

<p>davidn08: I have lived in the US for 3 years as well…but my stats are nowhere close to yours. Good luck at whatever school you choose to attend! I would pick NYU :)</p>

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<p>Many of you need to seriously reajust your perceptions and your views of the world. The Ivy League are 8 of the top 30 universities in the US. Not getting into an Ivy League is not a reflection of your abilities or potential. Most of you got into schools that are as good as the Ivies. Davis, Cal is at least as good as LSU, Brown and Chicago. Scherzo, UVA is a great university…as respected as some of the Ivies and other great universites. </p>

<p>For future applicants, I urge you not to limit your “dream” schools to institutions that have acceptance rates that hover under 25%. You are only setting yourself up for disapointment if you do. Those schools accept fewer than 50% of applicants with 1500+ SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs. None of you are better than those applicants. You are as good as 80% of the students who apply to those schools…and yet, the acceptance rate at those schools is under 25%. In some cases, the acceptance rate is under 10%.</p>

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<p>scherzo, i understand what you mean… but keep your head up and be thankful for what God gave you…</p>

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<p>wrong, wrong and wrong. Getting into an Ivy League college is an enormous reflection of one’s potential, ability and intelligence. whatever that is that equipped this particular person with such things as to get his butt into an ivy is irrelevant, the mere fact that he got in reflects his potential, ability and intelligence. Potential: that he got into a top college, which increases the probablity that he would get into an top graduate school or a top company. this is common sense. Like getting into AIME increases the chance that one gets into math olympic, whereas somone who didn’t get into AIME decrases his chance to get into math olympics, although i am not saying that it is impossible. It is possible, but out of a smaller probability.
2nd, his ability:he certainly deserves to be in an ivy league college if he got in. maybe he cheated in an exam, maybe he’s black and the college wants to increase its diveristy, and maybe he doesn’t have a *****. those are his abilities, and those got him in and he demonstrated his ability. Now maybe his intellectual ability is far from the average, but he got in and that reflects his abilities, abilities which got him into an ivy league.<br>
3rd, intelligence. oh come on, this is even unnecessary. anyone who thought of applying to an ivy league has demonstrated an amount of intelligence. And he who got in demonstrated that he got a higher intelligence. he who applied but failed demonstrated a low intelligence, sinc he cannot measure his own intelligence and recklessly bite on what he can’t chew. and he who regrets to have applied after he got rejected has even lower intelligence then he who merely walked away and said that i wasn’t expected to get in. For he doesn’t forsee his ability and strength even after he failed. Therefore, those who got into an ivy league, congratulation! for you have demonstrated your abilities and intelligence, and the potential to get in more ivy leagues; and even if you fail in later life, you would remembered as a self-destructive genius. Whereas those who failed to get in, i have nothing to say to you, because your life is doomed to be huddled with failures. perhaps it has nothing to do with your verbal intelligence, or your math intelligence; you simply lack the intellgience to get into a college that you want to get in. alot like to have a girl you like to have sex with you. It’s that simple. Some people are good at it, and some people aren’t. If you failed, admit to your failure. and face reality. It’s not my job to keep you from reality.</p>

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<p>thehammerspake’s post previous to this one is one of the most egregiously smug, self-satisfied, and moreover wrong-headed posts I’ve seen on the board in a while.</p>

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<p>Most people actually dont care what college you went to.
As long as you get a good education and ejoy what you do you’ll be perfectly fine!!!</p>