We had a similar situation that @Happytimes2001 mentioned when we looked at Groton a few years ago…there viewbook had a photo of students engaging in an EC that actually is not a consistent program now and was only offered in the winter at the time. So be good consumers of the materials that are out there - some may be outdated. On the other hand, some schools may not do a good job promoting programs they do have! Ask questions!!
We had the same experience with Taft. My daughter loves horseback riding (though she’s not highly experienced in it), and was thrilled to see that Taft offers horseback riding as a sport in the fall and spring (listed in both their admissions book and on their website). When she asked about it during the interview the AO had no idea what she was talking about and said “oh i think we may have one girl who goes out to some stables”. I agree with asking questions, because we never would have known it’s not really an option had we not asked.
Would be just awful to make a decision and then your “thing” isn’t available.
@Happytimes2001 Of course there are exceptions, like the small school that is able to field a water polo team despite its small size. At our kid’s school, a “spikey” kid who loves Astronomy would thrive because of the robust program.
But I don’t think that contradicts my main point at all: It is harder for a small school to keep multiple activities, clubs, and programs going if it admits too many “spikey” specialists who just want to go “all in” on a single subject area, activity, or sport.
A larger school might be willing to admit kids who are so spikey, they only want to focus on water polo. A smaller school with water polo, like Cate, would prefer to admit water polo players who can also write for the school paper, sing in the chorus, be in charge of the lighting for the school play, or give admissions tours.
@CaliMex Gotcha. I think many schools want to have kids who can offer many talents. I’m surprised at all the talents kids today have. It’s crazy.
We know a number of families whose kids are at larger schools and they often are multitalented too. Maybe there are schools that take a kid who does just one thing but at the only large school my second kid applied to, they were very interested in multiple areas and cited them in the acceptance letter as well.
My oldest kids school is small and some of the kids ARE spikey. But they are also multitalented. I think some do fill a single bucket. More fill multiple buckets.
I’ve found that kids who are spikey are often good at many things and just outstanding at one. We have seen a few who are all in ( mainly in sports). Though some of those kids are also multisport.
@Happytimes2001 A well-rounded, multi-talented kid can find a home in any school. But a kid who wants to specialize and go all-in on a single activity, sport, or subject, is USUALLY better served at a larger school or one that has a specialty in their particular “thing,” like Walnut Hill or Interlochen for artists. Also, depending on the sport or activity, some large schools might have so many advanced or accomplished participants, they may or may not feel as welcoming to kids with no background or experience. These are generalizations, of course. Just highlighting questions worth asking.
@Calimex I think we are saying mostly the same thing except you are advocating the size matters vis-a-vis spikey-ness. I think schools vary and so do kids so some spikey kids can be accommodated in a small school and some can’t. Depends on the how they are “spikey” and what they need to continue. Mine are pretty spikey but found some really good BS choices in all sizes. They are not linearly focused solely on just this one thing, but they are also deep into a couple of things that were not available at all schools ( big or small). They also did consider a large number of factors in their final decision.
I do agree that people should check carefully. For kids who are likely to attend a professional program in the arts/or a conservatory level music program, a school like Walnut Hill might be a good fit. But that’s really not a typical BS. I have a dear friend who went there for dance and was sadly underwhelmed by the academics. This followed my friend for years in terms of what they were able to do. They had lots of academic holes which needed to be filled. Then again, this friend also danced professionally for many years so on that side, it met the goal. It was just that the goal changed. Maybe that’s a good lesson for kids too, plans change, goals change. So make sure the BS you chose is someplace that would seem to fit even if your “thing” changes.
@Happytimes2001 I think we have different definitions of spikeyness.
When I refer to “spikey” kids, I don’t mean kids who are stronger in one area than in others. I mean kids who are deeply gifted and advanced in one area – perhaps even nationally or internationally-ranked – precisely because they invest all or most of their free time to that one pursuit.
A school with 300 kids simply cannot keep all of their teams, programs, clubs, and ensembles going if they admit too many kids who are only willing/able to wear a single hat and who need skilled and advanced mentors to feel challenged. So kids at smaller schools are unlikely to have as many peers who can go as deep in that singular interest, even if they are admitted, unless it is a specialty of the school’s. That is one of the trade-offs. (And yes, there are exceptions with smaller schools having surprisingly strong programs. A serious cross country runner would thrive at Thacher, as would an aspiring astronomer, for example. But that’s not true of an internationally-ranked Mathlete or serious dancer who wants to continue with training 15 hours/week.)
Another hypothetical example: An internationally-ranked mathlete at Exeter who has never played any sports at all is unlikely to make the Varsity team in a sport they are trying for the first time at BS. Those teams are full of athletes who are as good at their sports as the mathlete is at Math. It could happen, but would be less likely than if they had chosen to attend a smaller school. Granted, if they attended a smaller school, they would no longer be surrounded by a critical mass of astounding mathematicians and would likely feel less fulfilled in that area… but they would have a greater chance of making Varsity by senior year or of getting a lead in the musical. At smaller schools there is less competition from gifted and experienced “specialists”.
This is not the only consideration, of course… but it is a dimension worth exploring if one is trying to understand the pros and cons of larger schools and smaller school.
That “critical mass” comes into play in other ways, too. Smaller schools can be incredibly tightly-knit, warm, and inclusive communities. But they can also be more conformist in that there isn’t a critical mass of kids to provide peer support for those who may feel outside the school’s mainstream culture. For example, at a larger school, there are more LGBTQ students and that critical mass makes it more likely for them to feel comfortable being “out,” for example.
Lots to unpack and explore as families evaluate schools and try to find the best fit for their child!
What about the spikey mathlete who is also a Junior olympian? There are many kids who dip deeply into many areas ( often without peers except in that group). I think you’d find a few kids in our small BS who fit that mold. Going from 100 to 300 kids doesn’t mean you are going to find another kid who does your thing. I know this from experience. Most kids who are doing things at or above a regional level will see kids the same kids over and over ( rarely will they be from the same school). Go to a regional event from year to year and you will see the same kids. Same thing at national or international events. Yep, the same teams and kids. Look at the photos and you will see the same kids. And this runs across “things” Those who play at a high level, let’s say lacrosse will run into the same kids on regional and national teams. The same goes for music, art, really everything. And often these kids have multiple things, the kid who plays in the state orchestra who is also a top field hockey player or the lacrosse player who broke state records in running (these are actual kids who I’ve known). Is it rare? Not really.
I guess it depends on how you quantify intensity/level. When my oldest was tiny, there was one kid who we kept running into in every activity. So funny. Obviously that parent valued some of the same things we valued. Today, we’ve run into the same kids who cross-pollinate in several very divergent areas. We’ve also found that many kids who do things like your example top mathlete, are also national level athletes. Why? I don’t know. Maybe hyper-focus or drive or competitiveness? Hard to know really. How do I know? Well one of my kids was in a state final (running). They mix divisions so only the top kids from each run. At the near finish, my kid passed a team member from another “thing” (totally non-related STEM thing). They both were in the top 10. Strange? Not really. Both come from families that support competition and hard work. So is it strange that the results are similiar?
And as for LGBTQ kids, I think if the school is accepting and open there should be no issue. Size has no bearing on being conformist on not. Having more kids doesn’t mean things will be more/less open? Much as being in a big/small school has literally zero to do with being spikey. Some spikey kids like small schools and some like big. Spikey never means being good in only one thing. It just means you are well above the norm for that thing, IMO.
Check the newspaper write-ups of the kids who excel National merits or top regional athletes. Many are also top students and do other cool things. BS’s are filled with multi-talented kids. My kids have friends who do amazing things. The professional theater kid who raises 20K for a food pantry by starting a biz or other non-related things.
At this point, I think we have to agree to disagree regarding the size of the school and the support of spikey kids. I do have two really spikey kids ( multiple areas) and have been happy with the small school for my older one.
Again, we are using different definitions.
I am NOT referring to kids who are willing and able to do multiple activities, even at a very high level, like your kids. Boarding schools of all sizes are filled with students who are multi-talented and greatly excel in several areas. Indeed, that seems to be the norm!
I am referring to kids with a very narrow and specialized focus: The kid who needs 20+ hours/week of dance training or violin practice or tennis. Those kids are more likely to find similarly-committed peers at a larger school … and a larger school is more likely to be able to invest in the necessary resources (a year-round dance company capable of advanced repertoire, multiple string orchestras, etc). Those can be tough to provide at schools with fewer than 300 kids. If they choose to attend a smaller school, they need to be aware of the potential trade off.
My comment about LGBTQ kids came from a queer BS administrator who has worked at several schools. They observed that most (not all) gay boys in particular have a harder time being “out” in high school if there isn’t a critical mass of other boys who are ready to be “out.” Having a critical mass of anything is simply harder at smaller schools. It doesn’t mean the school isn’t inclusive and welcoming. It is developmental: Some kids just don’t want to be singled out, whereas they would be happy to be among a larger group of peers like them. At my kid’s school there is a trans boy who is very admired, beloved, and embraced. He is having a wonderful experience, but I still think he might have been even happier at a school where there were more kids like him.
@Calimex well we lived in a very small town. There were multiple kids in grammar school who were gender fluid, etc. Many kids spoke openly about their sexuality ( many before middle school). And the school size was far less than a small boarding school.
And while you are giving examples of kids doing things for many hours, most spikey kids are not able to find the level at school. A kid dancing for 20 hours a week? Maybe someone who had a kid who dances would know best. Ask the U level/JO/regional/national athletes or kids doing international level things. Do you have a spikey kid? Because we do. It’s a crazy balancing act.
Sometimes the BS can accommodate the kid in part ( and help them do their thing). Sometimes the BS will work with the kid to do their thing and also do the thing in school. There are BS that have ex-Olympians coaching but they don’t have a team of kids at that top level ( even if they are a huge BS). Attend any regional thing and you will see or or two kids from even PA or PEA ( the large schools).
I’ll bet there are people on CC who can chime in ( esp those in high level sports/mathletes/anyone doing something on a regular basis on the national/regional/or international level).
Anyway, spikeyness can work at any sized BS, if the school is open to the thing you/your kid does. You might be taking timing off from school, need space, or special coaching or any of a variety of things. Some schools will bend over backward to accommodate you and your thing and some will not ( because they have an X team or do Y). Many schools will also set you up with their specialist to launch you. That’s great. We had both a small school and a large school offer the same basic thing for a spike for one of my kids. They wanted the kid to attend. They knew the value and they offered the same thing. They also called to ask if there was anything else they could answer. They know spikeykids. They asked me a question I couldn’t even answer so they must have experience. Two schools- one large one small.
But hey, I am only basing my observations on my own experience with my own spikey kids.
Setting aside the exact definition of the word “spikey” for a moment – meaning whether being spikey is defined by “how good you are at an activity” vs. “how much that activity is one’s exclusive focus” – It does seem logical that a smaller school would desire kids who will participate in multiple activity streams, while a larger one can more easily absorb kids who plan to focus on one thing. Tours and interviews last fall absolutely confirmed this difference between larger and smaller schools.
The tweak to that would be that some schools, even if not large, could absorb a kiddo focussing on one activity stream IF that activity stream was in line with their school priorities and activity offerings. For example, SPS could support a dancer who did almost nothing else because they offer a very strong dance program and having a great ballerina in that program would elevate the program, a priority at the school. (And neither here nor there, but a truly serious dancer would have a hard time pursuing professional dance at any academically focussed boarding school, as I discovered when we looked into it for my DD1. For anyone tracking, it’s my DD2 who is headed off to BS this fall.).
I’ll add that if a kid were super spikey, both in terms of time commitment/exclusivity and talent, in a way that feels truly special, perhaps all schools would be willing to “pay the price” of not having a kid supporting other activities, if the situation were special enough. So, maybe it’s undesirable, for example, to have my DD1 who trains 30 hours a week, but if she were, say, a soloist with the New York City ballet, then maybe it would be worth it to them to have her there because of the prestige. (Bad example obviously – no one could be a soloist at NYCB and go to boarding school logistically.)