Bombing hits BostonMarathon

<p>I, for one, am impressed that the guys were caught! Amazed really. Having cameras all over the place helps too, doesn’t it. Everyone has a camera in their pocket. And there are cameras at practically every street corner. What a world we live in. The two also seemed not to be very good terrorists, which made them easier to catch, I imagine, and their plans didn’t do as much damage as they hoped, I get the feeling, though the damage they did cause was bad enough. </p>

<p>The human mind, it is a mystery. How does it get poisoned in this way? They were living here, in a country with so many choices and freedoms, how could they not appreciate that, having experienced it? What made them hate it here? Why make that choice when there are so many wonderful choices here to make? What are these people hoping to accomplish? Anything? Or is destruction the only goal?</p>

<p>I heard there was a massive LE flow into Watertown. That Wtown was already on their radar, from some of the calls received from the public. You may have seen a smaller number in the direct engagement-- does that mean that was all who were there?</p>

<p>My point was that no matter how long they had lived in the apartment (is this the same apartment that the family lived in for years?), the rent would NOT be cheap. I’m sure they did not own the place, so they did not benefit from having bought at a lower price. Not that these places were much less expensive 10 years ago; they were probably about the same. </p>

<p>Maybe the younger one had financial aid or loans. That still leaves the question of how they could afford general living expenses as well as the rent on the Cambridge apartment. </p>

<p>I haven’t seen any references to current or recent jobs. Where did the money come from?</p>

<p>mstee, I am also impressed that they caught the bombers. A few days ago I was very concerned that they would not be caught, it seemed almost impossible to identify the bombers.</p>

<p>"I haven’t seen any references to current or recent jobs. Where did the money come from? "</p>

<p>PLUS loans</p>

<p>Lafalum, stop the sarcasm. You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I. I do not criticize the actions of thousands of police officers. I question the decisions of their leaders and the FBI regarding the engagements. </p>

<p>Please note that I did not write a word about this until this morning. I just do not think that much praise is warranted. Feel free to voice a different opinion. The facts will speak for themselves, after the usual sanitization and obfuscation.</p>

<p>I have a friend who came to this country at about the same age that the younger brother is this did, from the former Yugoslavia. She remembers her days over there as sunny, happy, warm with lots of family and friends. Things were quite different for her and the family here in the US. They were one of the lucky ones as her father was a professor of some renown and a major university sponsored him so he arrived to a good paying job and there were those who helped them find housing and get started. Still, it was a huge change from their lives in Europe, and not necessarily an improvement for the mom and kids. Turned out later, she tells me that her father was terribly shortchanged in pay as well, and what they were living on was not much money, especially for a family coming with absolutely nothing. The mother could not find work, though she was university educated–her English was not so good. They bought in a not so nice area, and not knowing anyone and having to learn a whole new way of life took heavy tolls on everyone, particularly the mother who fell into a deep depression and possibly psychosis.</p>

<p>A big problem was that they had such high expectations. They truly believed that the roads were paved with gold and a wonderful easy materialistic lifestyle was right there for them and everyone. The father had visited the US as guests of universities and had been treated like royalty at such visits,–the mother had so accompanied him on some, and I think that the family believed they would be stepping right into the life styles of their hosts who were in fact the father’s peers academically. But we all know it isn’t so easy. </p>

<p>There is no excuse for anyone to do what these brothers did, but I can see where and how they could become increasingly disenchanted by life and the turn of events here in this country. No money, and the opportunities shrinking down. The young man was likely on the brink of flunking out. He was probably there on PELL, Staffords (with the $4K supplement), some part time work. Yes, on government aid as he was fully eligible and entitled to get until…he should flunk out or do something terribly criminal. From everything said and read about him, he seems to be pretty much a typical college student, who was struggling with academics and life as a young adult, and his morals just did not serve him well. Too dangerous to let out anyone like this, but it is impossible, IMO to be able to pick out who would be so weak/evil to go down the path he did.</p>

<p>The older one clearly had stronger ties to the old country and with his self importance being eroded, and his values clearly lacking, went to the dark side. My guess is that he found him self pulled into some groups that subsidized his trip and stay overseas last year and that is where he got his training to pull of what he did. Probably helped with the rent too, though I can tell you that our church some years ago sponsored families and helped them quite a bit in making the transitions and expenses of emigrating to the US. I have my opinions about that as I have experience and knowledge in these projects, but that is a subject for another time. The older brother found something that fed his ego after life pretty much kicked his backside here.</p>

<p>For whatever reason, the mentally ill seem to indulge in fantasies of being government agents of sort, I have noticed. The stories are either that they are secret government agents or the government is out after them. I’ve seen this so many times, and wonder why that is. Someone who is not so stable is ripe fruit for the picking by these terrorist groups looking to recruit and they are on the lookout for the signs. Stuck in mud in terms of life goals and accomplishments, short on money, and depressed, feeling emasculated. Yes, I can see how it would happen. </p>

<p>I hope that the younger brother can identify who his brother’s contacts are I get a distinct feeling that he was brought on board with all of this by an older brother who was much admired by him and who was a semi celebrity of sorts with his Golden Gloves bouts. Life was probably not going well for the young man, and parents were gone, just the older brother there as he was probably on his way out of college. </p>

<p>The older brother did have a job as a life guard at a pool at Harvard University. But I have no doubts that he had other money sources as well. That he was visited by government agents and questioned is not a big deal, IMO–where I live that happens to any number of Muslims and anyone who is reported to be frequenting certain organizations, websites or people of question. We have friends who have last names that are flags, and they have been under question, and have to watch what they say, with whom they mingle, what websites they frequent for that reason. For a number of reasons, the first few years I was in this country, I was given advice on certain things that were wise to avoid, that college students and young people who are native to the US don’t think twice about doing, and do so with wild abandon. So that he was “interviewed” is not an unusual thing, given that he is Muslim and that he came from a part of the world that is not exactly known for it peacefulness. The request was probably from his own country of origin. Happens all of the time, believe me. </p>

<p>So, to me, the reasons are all there as to what happened. How to prevent and early id these things are important. Very important. They are not so different from many immigrants that would not and will no do any thing like this, immigrants who will contribute to this country’s growth and become members of our own families. It’s the differentiation that needs to be done.</p>

<p>But the immediate concern is getting info on others here in the US who would likely do something like these two did. If they can get any info from the young man in custody that could shut down any of this, it would be a major victory, and I am more concerned about that than punishing the young man. He can not be let loose after showing what he is capable of doing. </p>

<p>However, it is possible that he was not aware of what was going down at the Marathon, and was too cowardly to come forth when he realized what he and his brother wrought. Again, I am not excusing his participation and his lack of coming forth, and believe that he is not fit to be permitted to live among us as he cannot be trusted, but there is some doubt in my mind that he willfully and knowingly bombed the Marathon. When questioned, some more info on that will come out, I’m sure.</p>

<p>NYMom, their apt may have come under the aegis of the Boston Housing Authority, which lists current Norfolks St apts, roughly same stretch, at $1200. Had they lived there a long time, their rent would be considerably lower than today’s market prices. And, Boston, like other major cities, has areas in transition, where some structures may be upgraded and others still old and outdated.</p>

<p>Very insightful post, cptofthehouse. </p>

<p>Thanks, lookingforward. They may have been in subsidized housing. Rent control was abolished in Cambridge many years ago, if I remember correctly. Even old and outdated houses in Cambridge are expensive.</p>

<p>Interesting info from the WSJ</p>

<p>

[Life</a> in America Unraveled for Brothers - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323809304578432501435232278.html?mod=us_most_pop_newsreel]Life”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323809304578432501435232278.html?mod=us_most_pop_newsreel)</p>

<p>

[FBI</a> Statement on 2011 Questioning of Alleged Bomber - Washington Wire - WSJ](<a href=“http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/20/fbi-statement-on-2011-questioning-of-alleged-bomber/]FBI”>http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/20/fbi-statement-on-2011-questioning-of-alleged-bomber/)
WSJ report of FBI statement</p>

<p>Notice the “Once the FBI learned the identities of the two brothers today…”. The implication is that despite having interviewed Tamerlan in the past and being aware of his tangential connection to radical Islamic sites he wasnt even on their radar until people phoned in with the identity of the hat brothers. </p>

<p>And remember in this timeline that it was well before the release of the photos, I believe Wednesday night, that we heard the description of the suspect as wearing a white ball cap backwards. People kind of drifted to the track kid from that, but there is every reason to believe that Dzhokhar would recognize himself from that description and not hang around waiting for the FBI’s 5pm press conference. </p>

<p>There are a few things about the FBI’s response here that look to be problematic and should be investigated.</p>

<p>I don’t think the full story is out , or even close to it, as to what happened at MIT and in Watertown when the younger brother escaped. That he escaped is no surprise to me. The police had used up a lot of their ammo, were scared by the bombs, worried about suicide vests and the sort, and the young man is an athlete. With all that adrenalin, boosted by youth, fear and athletic skills, helped by the fact that it was night, I could relate some stories, but…discretion rules, but, no I am not surprised that the young man got a way on foot. </p>

<p>I don’t think there were any suicide vest in the picture, however. I had asked earlier if the older brother who was shot so many times, they can’t count his bullet holes was wearing one. I kinda doubt he was. But they did have weaponry, and the police have to be careful.</p>

<p>I am curious also about the barrage of shooting that occurred when the younger brother was found in the boat. Was he armed? Did some fool policemen fire? It seems to me those were shots from cops first on the scene. Probably rebuked by those of a higher pay grade who wanted the perp alive. </p>

<p>I’m willing to bet the Watertown/MIT shootout was a tragedy of errors. Did they catch whoever robbed the convenience shop? A statement was released that it wasn’t the two brothers. Does anyone have good info as to what the heck happened at MIT, who shot the security cop, how it turned into a chase after the two BM bombers?</p>

<p>Yes, Xiggi is being a bit harsh, but the scenarios have been close to what happened. The police really are not well equipped for this sort of thing. Like I’ve said, I have some stories I cannot tell, and there is a lot of truth in cop stereotypes.</p>

<p>OK I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet.</p>

<p>The news media is making a BIG DEAL out of the FBI’s plans to interrogate the suspect prior to reading the suspect his Miranda rights. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t <em>have</em> the right to remain silent and consult an attorney does it? It just means they aren’t going to tell him about it first? </p>

<p>Meaning that this recently naturalized college student who should probably know about his constitutional rights anyway is perfectly within his rights to remain silent and call for an attorney even if the interrogators don’t tell him he can do so?</p>

<p>I realize that any confession obtained before they Mirandaize him may not be admissible in court – but he still has the rights, correct?</p>

<p>

I so agree. I watched the press conference last night and was getting tired of all the mutual backslapping. The biggest oops! was when DT got away on Thursday night. </p>

<p>Some of that backslapping should have included the big help that the public provided, and a special thank you to the man who found DT on the boat!</p>

<p>At one point there was a $50,000 reward. Who should get it? I vote for the man who discovered DT on the boat!</p>

<p>cnp, you can try to find a record of Alan Dershowitz being interviewed. This will be a legally fascinating case. </p>

<p>Miranda isn’t required immediately; it can be delayed in defined (and, I believe, rare) circumstances. This doesn’t prevent his 5th and 6th amendement rights. I think we covered this, last night, here. </p>

<p>What will be key is who has jurisdiction- feds or MA. This can lead to different guiiding principles in the prosecution. There will be lots of wrangling.</p>

<p>The $50K reward? I vote for the guy who lost his legs in the blast and still gave the police the description that led to the black hat/white hat description from surveillance photos. If it’s true that he has no health insurance – which I have read, but of course cannot confirm – that’s where I’d put my $50K reward.</p>

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<p>Agree with LAF. This is not that close to Harvard Square (Inman Square/East Cambridge) and one of the cheaper neighborhoods in Cambridge. Yeah, all of greater Boston rent is expensive, but this is not really a high-rent area. I just found listings for 4 bedrooms with balconies right by there for $2500, and we have no idea how big their apartment is or anything else. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Inman Square, but if they had somebody funding a cushy lifestyle for them to live in the Cambridge area, they probably would have picked somewhere else.</p>

<p>It’s also worth noting that their street is half in Cambridge, half in Somerville (split down the middle). Somerville is gentrifying but is in general considered less desirable, high crime, lower-income, etc. I lived in Somerville for two years and loved it but I lived there partially to save money.</p>

<p>cmp: Orin Kerr at Volokh Conspiracy has a good discussion of the implication of the Miranda tactics. </p>

<p>The gist is just if white hat confesses that they wont be able to use the statements in prosecution. That could be moot if they feel they already had more than enough evidence without a need for his statements. </p>

<p>And there is a decision in New York v. Quarles where his statements could be argued into admissibilty based on public safety. </p>

<p>Authorities might do this if they wanted to clear up if more bobby trap bombs were out there or if they suspected there was a 3rd person still at large.</p>

<p>“The strength of the Miranda decision is its clarity in its nearly unwavering protection of a suspect’s Fifth Amendment protection against selfincrimination. The commitment to this rule is so strong that the Supreme Court has recognized only one exception to the Miranda rule—the “public safety” exception—which permits law enforcement to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation and allows the government to introduce the statement as direct evidence.” From fbi.gov</p>

<p>xiggi:

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<p>Xiggi:

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<p>Priceless :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Argbargy, there are a lot of people on those lists and the vast majority are not problems. They check out anybody that comes up with certain flags. I’m sure that it would have taken longer to go through those lists of people so interviewed than getting a fix and id from the photos. I’m telling you, that in major metro areas, there are many people on those lists. Certain religions, ethnicity, visiting certain things, checking out certain things, making pubic statements, writing editorials, having certain friends, can all get you a visit and add you to the list. The joke is that the lists are so comprehensive that they have become useless. The brother was interviewed and cleared, as are most people on such lists… He probably had no activities that were illegal at the time he was “interviewed”. So much for the impact of the interview as he headed to Russia for a 6 month visit shortly thereafter, where I’ll bet he got his terrorist training. Practice working with explosives is not so easy in a city, and he seemed well versed with the equipment.</p>

<p>I wonder what the reason was just to bomb the Marathon. It still makes no sense to me. Wanton destruction. What on earth could anyone have told someone to even know about such an idea much less do something like this? What purpose could this have possible served for ANY cause? Anyone have any ideas, because this really perplexes me. And they really thought they would not get caught?</p>