Boyfriend issues

Parent Cafe
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<p>Thanks for all the advice!
To clarify, I’m not naive about teens and sex. I was not the most innocent of teens myself, and am quite aware of all that a kid can get into. I’m still amazed that my D hasn’t really gotten into much of it herself. Although we have had plenty of the usual discussions about sex, I focusued more on protection and waiting for the right guy. The decision to wait until marriage was entirely hers. I’m realistic about it and would not be surprised if she didn’t keep that promise. I would hope that if she did break her promise, it would be with someone she loved and who loved and respected her, and with whom she might envision a future together. I think any parent hopes for that. </p>

<p>There are sort of two issues here: having sex, and lying about what she was doing. I think she was actually at the house where she was supposed to be, but I’m not sure. I can pretend I never saw the IM and address the sex issue as a mom, without involving my husband or the other family. The lying issue is more difficult. There’s no way I would have known about this incident without seeing the IM. If I get my husband involved, she will be in serious trouble, and he will probably get the other parents involved as well. We don’t know them personally, and having them over would seem a lttle odd. My D is otherwise a very good kid. I know you’re going to say I’m naive again, but we have no problems in school, she’s a high achiever, hates partying, and is well liked by friends and teachers. She has been SO good, that I wonder if this is her way of being a rebellious “bad” kid for a change.<br>
I guess my real problem is: if the worst thing about the lying issue is that it leads to the sex issue, maybe I should skip the first and head straight to the second. I can do that without revealing what I know.</p>

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<p>I just have a reaction to the attitude that it is naive to think your child is not having sex if in a relationship, also to the idea that they are going to have sex so provide them the information to have “safe” sex.
My four sons know that it is our religious and moral foundation to wait for marriage to have sex. We have openly discussed this, not in a threatening or controlling environment, but one in which we discuss the benefits of waiting and both the emotional and physical risks. So far they are all in agreement.
As a women’s health nurse, I see many teens who get pregnant, get STDs and even cervical cancer as the result of HPV. Many, many say they used condoms and/or birth control. They believed they were having “safe” sex.
The “It’s no big deal” attitude is a frightening one.</p>

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<p>To SuNa- The IM made it quite clear they were not having sex, but were sleeping together as Berurah described- she summed up my feelings exactly. Actually, were it not for the fact that she lied about what she was doing that night, I would be quite proud of the way they discussed the situation, and their response to it. I’m just concerned that next time, their response won’t be the same.
MladyD- I was thinking along those same lines. Sometimes I think we keep too tight a grip on a kid who otherwise causes no problems and this is her response to it.</p>

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<p>of course you can have HPV and not know it-
I even had Hep B and didnt know it.
( I dont think HPV gets you preg)
but it is true that you can get HPV even with a condom ( that doesn’t mean you shouldnt use one)</p>

<p>[new edition!](<a href=“http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/”>A Beacon of Light: Katherine Stone - Our Bodies Ourselves Today)</p>

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<p>Aries: Awesome post! You are so right that “everything and every one” is saying it is normal to have sex…it is not a bad thing to have people who say it is okay not to have sex and why…girls so often think it is a physical thing, but the trauma comes from the emotional price paid.</p>

<p>Also, a good comment about the IM being left as a subconscious asking for help. My D introduced me to a BF who was so not who I wanted to see her with…I tried to be polite, but a few weeks later when things changed and I shared my perceptions, she revealed that that was why she brought him around ot meet me & then her Dad, she wanted to gauge our reactions. Yet, as parents we so often try to not be too judgemental and risk shutting down the sharing.</p>

<p>As CGM said, the sex is not really the issue here- if they want to have it, they can do it without a sleepover…it is the honesty and trust which is paramount to the future relationship of mom & daughter.</p>

<p>Another thought, if you feel the need to hide D’s behavious from Dad, maybe that is an indicator you should tell him and all sit down toegther…been there, done that and Dad’s should know when there is a trust issue. You may have a chance to nip something in the bud now which would be a problem later.</p>

<p>It does not even necessarily have to be a dire, big deal (I did not read that intenseness in CGM’s post) but still can be approached as some level of trust issue. How you learned of the info is not important, that it happened is the point.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>As the parent of “good kids” I want to say that they often are looking for a way to bring stuff up they don’t feel comfortable about
IT is normal for them to hide stuff and to want to have sex, that doesn’t mean you need to give them carte blanche to do whatever ( not saying you are doing this)
But while you wouldn’t necessarily snoop , unless there was a concern, it is better I think to bring it up immediately, admit what happened, and play it by ear.
Let her know you are there and available, while also acknowledging that she is growing up- but even grown up kids can still ask their parents advice!
( not that I would ask * my mother*, but she is of the "if it feels good , do it mindset)</p>

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<p>Please consider that your d only lied to “protect” you, your image of her and the peace in the household. I fear that a confrontation re: the lie will divert the discussion from what’s most important, that your d is prepared to keep herself safe. So… I’d jump straight into the sex talk, along with whether she has considered how to protect herself from disease and unwanted pregnancy should she decide to become sexually active. Get specific. Ask if she could imagine securing condoms, arranging for gyn appt. Stress that her safety is more important to you than whether you agree with her decisions, or whether you become worried, or angry. Let her know that it’s hard for you to see her growing up and facing these very important decisions, but that you will love her and support her no matter what. Let her know that she can ALWAYS come to you for assistance. If she’s uncomfortable with that, assure her that she can talk to her physician (or other responsible adult in her life) and that you won’t pry.</p>

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<p>“A teenager “in love” simply doesn’t consider the possible consequences of something like lying about at which home she will be staying for one night. This does not make her a “liar” with a capital L,”- it does show she lies, and is thus a liar, and shows poor judgement that can move into other areas…like not using protection…</p>

<p>I just think when a kid starts lying about where they are, covering up their location, its a big issue</p>

<p>If my kid lied to me about what movie they saw, , but to tell me they were at becky’s house, when in fact they were all alone in Timmy’s house all night long, and I was totally clueless to where my D was at 2am, then 3am, then 4 am, well, gee, sorry if that bothers me.</p>

<p>If my adult H, told me he was going to stay over at a place so he could golf the next day, and I 'discovered" gee, no, he was in another part of town with people i didn’t know about…and female at that</p>

<p>Would we all say that is okay? I don’t think so…but its okay for a 17 year old girl to do that?</p>

<p>I am not saying go accuse her, lock her up, flog the boy, no I am not, but I am saying, watch her, pay attention…her judgement is obviously clouded with love, hormones, whatver, and the boy is not saying, gee, you should go home now, I would hate for you to get in trouble</p>

<p>it is good they discussed it, but I stand by that the D lost mom’s trust, mine would have, and it would make me question other things she says she is doing, I wouldn’t spy, but i would ask more pointed questions and i would have that boy over, for dinner, so he meets Dad…and sees that the parents are not ogres</p>

<p>So it sounded dire, it happens once, it can happen again, i want to know where MY children are at 4am, don’t you?</p>

<p>I have a friend whose D told them she was at my house with my Ds all day (she is 15)…we have know them forever, so mom didn’t call me, as I wouldn’t have necessarily called them on a saturday afternoon…well, this girl was off with the new BF, and no one knew where she was…my D did not know she was the cover story either…why she lied, well, she was not doing well with grades, so parents were limiting her “fun time” and she was spending to much time with BF on phone, after school and it was affecting things, so she was allowed to go to GF’s house to hang out…if you knew the girl, you would get it…</p>

<p>Well, the parents were angry, to say the least…it was not the hanging out with the BF, it was lying about it…</p>

<p>after that, the D needed to check in more often, parents were called to make sure D was where she needed to be and after some time, trust was regained</p>

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<p>“There are sort of two issues here: having sex, and lying about what she was doing. I think she was actually at the house where she was supposed to be, but I’m not sure.”</p>

<p>“Actually, were it not for the fact that she lied about what she was doing that night, I would be quite proud of the way they discussed the situation, and their response to it. I’m just concerned that next time, their response won’t be the same.”</p>

<p>If she was at the house she was supposed to be, and just the “sleepover” involved slightly different company then you expected, I am sure she will not see it as a bridge of trust in any way (even if you do), especially since they didn’t actually do anything ‘inappropriate’.</p>

<p>I think you should talk to her in general about life, relationships and sex. Not being judgmental, just sharing your thoughts and experience. I think that one of the biggest problems with teenage sex is that the kids assume that their parents will be freaked out and appalled if they find out about it. So lying and sneaking around becomes their only option.</p>

<p>If you don’t have a problem with her having sex in principle, but want it to be with the right person, for the right reasons (not because she is afraid that otherwise he will dump her for another girl that will agree to have sex with him, etc.) - tell her that! It will make it so much easier for her to turn to you for advice and help if she ever needs it in the future! And it will make it so much easier for you to address this issue with her if you suspect that there might be a problem of any kind…</p>

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<p>

SO TRUE. I’ve often hoped that people would be very blunt about what they think about the guys I date - I’m dating them, for chrissakes, not getting engaged! Yes, if your D has chosen a hippie with tattoos as her eternal beloved, you shouldn’t be judgmental - the heart of gold makes up for the ponytail. But it’s really okay to be judgmental about character flaws - after all, if she’s your “darling daughter,” don’t you think she deserves better than the twit she’s with?</p>

<p>Rant over, I swear. :)</p>

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<p>PS - thanks, MotherDear.</p>

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<p>

Absolutely. Without a doubt. And to ensure that, I do not “go off” on my children, I try to rarely (if ever) overreact to situations, and I try to not impugn their characters (declare them “liars”) for one small and relatively harmless transgression. I don’t know…this is just my style. Works for us. Each parent must do what works for him/her.</p>

<p>peace, ~berurah</p>

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<p>

FWIW, I <em>TOTALLY</em> believe you and DO NOT think you are being naive at all…probably because I have kids very much like yours, so yes, I’ve seen it! :slight_smile: The only thing I would disagree with is that she should be characterized as “rebellious” or “bad” in any way for what she’s done. I just don’t see her behavior like that whatsoever, particularly considering her “clean record.”</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>Berurah’s is the voice of perental reason here. I also agree that Citygirlsmom is over the top here. There is also a lot of denial going on here. I would bet my last dollar that a lot of the kids are paying lip service to their parents and conducting much different lives than their parents know. And to the OP, it sounds like youir daughter is a good, responsible kid. I don’t think this is an effort of breaking out of the good girl box. She’s simply growing up and becomming ready for new experiences. And Aires, do you go to law school at some extreme Christian school? It’s so hard to envision intelligent women in their mid 20s wanting to go into marriage in the dark.</p>

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<p>i guess I think spending the night at a BFs house more then a transgression, and if you read my posts, I never said “go off on them” </p>

<p>i said I would watch her, ask better questions, and check a bit more carefully, the next time she says, oh I am at so and so’s house, i would call with some excuse, because she has lost my trust for being where she is supposed to be</p>

<p>When did I say i would go off on her? far from it, if you bothered to look at what i said</p>

<p>the girl lied, and about something I consider a big deal, sleeping at a boys house </p>

<p>But hey, if thats okay with you, go for it…what lie would be the one that would raise flags with you?</p>

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<p>Well, maybe I am the one that is overreacting, but I think the trust between Mom and daughter is shot, and the question is does Mom confront daughter about the dishonesty or not. Mom is going to be wondering about her whereabouts and activities every time daughter leaves the house until she moves out!</p>

<p>I guess I’m just not a trusting person, but I have always assumed my children lie to me to some extent, I think it is natural for teenagers to do so, for that reason I verified their activities from time to time which then led to trusting them. They also almost believed that Mom and Dad had eyes in the back of their head! Because I grew to trust them doesn’t mean that the trust is not fragile, and not being where you said you would be overnight is not a little thing to me at all.</p>

<p>I appreciate what Anonmom says about her daughter being a good kid and not rebellious, and I would take that into consideration, but I at the least would have a heart to heart with her about trust, and make it clear that her location will be verified from now on, until she leaves for college - she screwed up a little too soon.</p>

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<p>Fine, when is it okay for a girl to sleep with her BF…and lie about…</p>

<p>If you read what I said, I would be calm on the surface, but when my sweet girl said, hey, I am crashing at becky’s house, i would think,…hmmm is she going to really be at becky’s house</p>

<p>I wouldn’t intergogate her, but my antena would be up</p>

<p>To me a transgression is not calling when they are supposed to, being really late, but sleeping at a home of a male while I think and she has told me she is somewhere else bothers me a great deal</p>

<p>I wouldn’t forbid them from seeing each other, i would NOT grab the boy b y the collar and shake him, i wouldnot tell his parents, but I would be more watchful</p>

<p>Sorry if you think paying more attention is over the top</p>

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<p>From the, aahh, mouth of babes. The point is the parents have a right and a responsibility to know what their minor children are doing, particularly minor children living in the home. If the daughter was 19 or 20, there would be different issues, issues of courtesy, but 18 or under still in high school, there are issues of safety and parental responsibility.</p>

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<p>A lie DOES raise red flags, but we may differ on what we believe the danger to be. For a student about to go to college, I would see this as an opportunity to address issues of the parent-“child” relationship.
I guess I do see this as a two-way trust issue. Can you trust her to be honest? Can she trust you to hear and understand her dilemmas?</p>

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<p>

Not at all. My school does not have any religious denomination. You can rationally differ on what “in the dark” is with marriage - I’m not saying that these are the kids who don’t even kiss before marriage - that’s the dark! Also funny that you assume that it’s only women - I have a lot of guy friends, many of whom are voluntarily virgins. </p>

<p>Not to be completely… open… but I just don’t buy the “test drive” mentality of marriage - i.e. you wouldn’t buy a car without test-driving it first, so why marry someone when the sex is bad? First of all, if he’s bad at kissing, bad at touching, is completely selfish, and is about as gentle as your average drunk frat boy, you don’t need to have sex with him to know what things are going to be like. Hello! If you test-drive a car, you only go for a few miles - you aren’t going on a cross-country road trip, waiting to drive in the snow, then taking it to work in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the Jersey turnpike going 80 mph, before you buy the thing. Extrapolate. Guess. Realize what is important and what is really overrated.</p>

<p>Two, maybe this is me being all ideal and naive - but why would you marry someone whom you could not discuss sexual issues with? If you love her enough to marry her, don’t you think that, while the sex might not ititially be great, you can work on it? For me, it’s not what the guy does the first time he kisses me that matters; it’s his responsiveness and willingness to work with me that matters. </p>

<p>Three - I do not equate intelligence with modern mores, nor the reverse. IMO, this is a subject on which intelligent people can differ, both intellectually and emotionally; there is little reason to suggest that everyone must make the decision in the same manner. The dictates of one’s psyche should never be compromised for social conformity.</p>