Boyfriend issues

berurah · May 5, 2006, 10:22am

ADad~

While I sincerely admire your obvious commitment to forthrightness and honesty (and I think you are most likely a wonderful dad/husband), I must point out that the essence of a parent/child relationship is VERY different from the essence of a mature adult relationship between two spouses who are presumably on equal footing. Yes, honesty should be encouraged/expected within BOTH of those types of relationships, but with a spouse/spouse relationship, there does not exist (or IMHO SHOULD not exist) the disparity in maturity/social-emotional functioning that would necessitate a “caretaking” element. I do not “keep tabs” on my husband because 1.) It would be disrespectful to him as an adult, 2.) I do not have the same responsibility for his safety and welfare as I do my children’s, and 3.) His behavior over 22 years has never indicated that I would be justified in doing so.

A parent’s relationship with an adolescent child is much different. Inherent in the parent/child relationship is the eternal struggle for independence on the part of the child, from toddlerhood on lol ;)–and the eternal struggle of the parent to “let go.” For lack of a better way of putting this, there is a learning curve involved in adolescence. I do not expect my developing children to behave in exactly the same way as my husband, and because of that (and because of the disparity in our levels of cognitive/emotional functioning), I tend to view their behaviors through a different sort of lens. What some on this thread see only as lies, deceit, and dishonesty, I choose to view as an adolescent’s internal struggle for independence (perhaps not correctly approached). Now, there are some behaviors about which I would not be so quick to give the benefit of the doubt, such as outright cruelty to others, cheating in school, drug/alcohol abuse, stealing, or other such things. These fall into a different category for me, and my kids are VERY well aware of that and have not EVER tested those limits–YET.

The thing is, I fully agree with you about the importance of honesty in ALL relationships. And adolescents, as adults-in-training, should be guided gently but firmly to strive for that but should not be “branded” for occasionally falling short, as we ALL do.

~berurah

berurah · May 5, 2006, 10:31am

suze and clueless~ Thanks, y’all! :)

aries~ You GO girl…you sound like you’ve got your head on straight! In so many ways I was like you at your age—didn’t cave on stuff just 'cause “everyone” was doing it! :D

~berurah

roshke · May 5, 2006, 11:44am

I agree with ADad. For me, regardless of the age, it’s all about the honesty, and I would have no trouble making an issue over what your daughter did. I don’t think that means that you have to start WWIII and ruin the rest of the time your daughter is home, but I would be frank and express my disappointment at the deception. Trust and privilege are two way streets.

ADad · May 5, 2006, 3:00pm

berurah,

Can hardly disagree about the difference between parent/child and spouse/spouse. I think we agree, though, that trust and honesty are esential in both relationships. I don’t keep tabs on my wife either, but if I were to learn somehow that she had out-and-out lied to me or knowingly allowed me to be deceived about where she was at night or who she was with, I would consider it to be a major problem. Not a caretaking problem, but a trust problem.

Spouses were brought up to begin with by cgm, I think, to show that purposeful deception about whereabouts and companions is a trust issue in all relationships, and not an unfair burden on teens. (When I have 22 years of good behavior from my teen, I’ll be glad to loosen up! )

I fully understand that the teens are struggling for independence and testing limits. I also know full well that my teens have done stuff that I would disapprove of. But here is my issue:

When parents won’t take positions against irresponsible behavior, and/or won’t make an effort to enforce such positions, then they are allowing free rein to teenage judgment. That might be OK when it comes to some things, but when it comes to some of the things you mentioned, when it comes to drinking, when it comes to sex, I just can’t see that. Teens, as a general matter, just can’t be relied upon to handle such things safely. Not when one mistake can be fatal, devastating, or significantly harmful for the teen or for others.

That is why I just don’t get why some say “they are going to do do X in college, or they are going to do X anyway, so why resist?” 
Because first of all, they might not try to do X if parents lovingly oppose it, and if consequences for getting caught are significant and enforced. Second, they might do less of it, or they might be more careful about it, or they might delay it, if parents oppose it. All of those things reduce their risk, reductions that are our responsibility as parents to encourage. Third, kids are more likely IMO to respect parents who lovingly and seriously stand for something, who act like parents. That IMO is very important, even if the kids don’t always in fact do what the parents wish.

Kids don’t have to use alcohol, sex, or the things you mentioned to show their independence. There are plenty of constructive, safe ways to establish and show independence. My goal is to allow them to be independent in ways that don’t put their own lives or futures at risk, or the lives and futures of others at risk. But if their way of showing independence is to, with premeditation, mislead me about where and with whom they spent the night, then IMO it is my job as a parent to see that they find some other way to break free.

nngmm · May 5, 2006, 3:14pm

“[Three] themes guide American constructions of adolescent sexuality and explain their near-universal strong opposition to the sleepover: the perils of raging hormones, the costs of the battle between the sexes, and the logic of “not under my roof.” By viewing the sexual maturation of teenagers through these 3 cultural lenses, American parents dramatize adolescent sexuality – they highlight the dramatic and conflicted aspects of sexuality, forces that overwhelm the individual, conflicts that put girls and boys at odds, and the radical break between parents and teenagers that is required before parents accept their children’s sexual relationships as legitimate.”

<a href=“http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/494933_2[/url]”>Must We Fear Adolescent Sexuality? - Page 2;

berurah · May 5, 2006, 3:31pm

ADad~

Well, I think we are more in agreement than I had first thought. I think you and I share the same values pretty much to a T. And if you’d take the time to read all of my prior posts re: parenting issues (not that I expect you to lol ;))—things such as drinking, etc., you will see that I’ve pretty much ALWAYS been arguing YOUR position. In fact, I’ve been lambasted from time to time for being a hard ass and overly conservative, particularly with regard to issues around drinking/drugs/general irresponsibility, and yes, honesty.

Look, when you have a kid who is 18 or 19, the fact is that you are NOT going to be privy to everything that s/he does. And it is only when you “catch” the dishonesty that you become aware of it. I ALWAYS make use of those “teachable moments.” In this particular case, because the OP’s daughter is so close to being out from under her parents’ roof, I would choose not to make a big deal about this one thing. That is NOT to say that I don’t value honesty. It’s just a matter of picking battles, as they say.

I tend to pick few enough battles that my children KNOW when I am very serious about something, and they have always shown me the respect of following those rules. And I think it is just that…a matter of respect, precisely because they perceive me to be “fair” and not overly critical or arbitrary.

I actually agree with the vast majority of your above post. Like I said above, you seem like a wonderful dad and a great husband, and I’m stickin’ to that! :)

respectfully, ~berurah

ariesathena · May 5, 2006, 6:54pm

I agree… and you said it better than I could have. I really think there’s something to be said for imparting some values to your children… it’s just that people get really weird about sexual values. Parents (rightly) would not stand for children who were racist or made deragatory remarks about women, although the theories above (“They’ll do it in college anyway;” or, “They’re almost grown and I’m not going to change them,”) apply.

Also like to concur with Berurah here - I’m sure that most of the parents on this board are absolutely fantastic… and someday, their kids will realize how lucky they are. You have B, the very loving parent of six and who just kind of adopts others; CGM, who talked about getting her daughter to enjoy her lovely, curly hair when the Mean Girls teased her; all the “taxi moms;” and, oh boy, the dads, who are all the poster “boys” for what fatherhood should be about - the ones who are more involved with their kids than a lot of moms.

… which is probably why the OP came here for advice!

calmom · May 5, 2006, 7:18pm

nngmm, thanks for posting that link. I found it really interesting and it clarified a lot of issues to me.

Boyfriend issues

CONNECT WITH US