How is the level of playing among these camps? My son slightly prefers orchestra-oriented programs (but loves chamber music as well). We prefer a much more structured program for him. Which would be a better fit? His current repertoire is the Vieuxtemp Violin concerto 4 and recently worked on Saint Saens and Mendelssohn Violin concertos.
I think this really depends on his goals. If he wants to go to conservatory or major in music, he is better off going to a program that gives him ample practice time. I would consider all these programs to be on the busy side, with not a ton of time for practicing. Kinhaven and Greenwood are overall more structured in terms of having activities all day long. BUTI (assuming the orchestra program) is less structured apart from the rehearsals.
Kinhaven and Greenwood are very similar, with a big focus on chamber, some orchestra, and some solo. The level at Greenwood is slightly higher for strings than Kinhaven in my experience.
Brevard and BUTI are much more orchestra-focused. This will be fun, but generally kids don’t progress as much when it is mostly orchestra as they would at a program with more chamber music or solo opportunities. The level at BUTI is higher than Brevard for high school typically, but Brevard is a bit more well-rounded in terms of curriculum and lessons.
For my own kids, I probably would have preferenced Greenwood, Kinhaven, BUTI, then Brevard (which is probably the order in level from highest to lowest as well), but my kids had definite goals for making a lot of individual progress over the summer. If your kid just wants to have fun, an orchestra program may be more fun.
Thanks so much for your reply. It’s very helpful! I am a bit surprised that Greenwood & Kinhaven has is considered at a higher level than BUTI! Does either of those offer and “free time” during the day?
What do kids do in BUTI outside of orchestra rehearsals? do they offer chamber music coachings and other music classes?
My daughter really enjoyed Greenwood Jr. and Sr.. Motivated kid can find a couple hours a day for solo practice, otw that kind of free time. Focus and culture primarily chamber, but some orchestra and chorus.
Competitive there if you are older and have not been there before. Most kids get reinvited year to year.
Assume you are talking about next year as I am sure it’s pretty buttoned up by now.
Unlike Perlman etc. most of these kids will end up at Ivies etc. rather than conservatories. (The level of play is very impressive.) My daughter loved that they moved through so much rep, a new group each week. Hope that helps!
My BUTI experience is old, but there is some chamber music and you can sign up for some lessons and classes. There are concerts most nights to watch. There would be time to practice, but in my experience most kids there did not practice. After so many hours in orchestra, I think everybody was just tired? Or maybe it is just the culture.
There are two tiers of precollege string players. There are those who are going to the solo/chamber music programs, and those going to the orchestra programs. Those going to solo/chamber music tend to be higher in level because they are practicing more.
String players going to orchestra programs ironically often think they are the highest level (these are often the kids in the front in all state), but they sometimes do not realize that there is another whole tier of students above them who have been practicing 3-6 hours a day for years. Their metric is who is in front in the top orchestra, and they are not always aware of the kids who are doing precollege programs and winning national competitions. This is often a rude awakening for them when auditioning for conservatory.
There are of course exceptions to this, and you will see some bleed over with NYO, but generally it is true.
I do not know how that is possible at the higher grade (grade 11 and 12). School has such a high workload especially if the kids are in the IB program. My kid has a maximum of 1 hour a day on the violin.
Do you guys all homeschool the kids?
My wind player went to Kinhaven senior for two years. He had no issue finding down time to practice. He did not work on solo pieces with his teacher, I don’t know what the situation is for strings. Many many students there were Juilliard, MSM and NEC precollege students and several in his year went on to conservatories (one made it to the final round at Curtis). He also went to greenwood junior so we have experienced both. They are rustic, device free and the kids and parents consider them very special places. Both years he came home wanting to practice more and having a deeper love of music.
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My son has two very close friends, one violinist and one cellist, who are like this, and both have multiple national titles. As a violist, my son absolutely did not practice as much, not even half this much; however, according to the several teachers he has worked with, he has learned a highly efficient way of practicing so he can still keep up with his friends (feel free to insert any viola joke 
).
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Our daughter went to a private Arts boarding school to accomplish what she needed per TMV. She was clear enough on what she wanted (conservatory) that she did not take (or prep for) the SAT and did not take as daunting academics. The school functions on fitting the needs of artist kids- right now she is missing a week for lesson and audition at Juilliard.
She would have not have gotten to where she needed to be or if she had gone to a regular HS where we live. (rural). Given all that, she just squeezed in to the level of rep needed to pass pre-screens for a top tier conservatory.
(She is there on a nearly full scholarship/financial aid.)
TMVs first sentence on this thread- “I think it really depends on his goals.”
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Do you guys all homeschool the kids?
Nope. Mine goes to a Science/Tech high school that doesn’t even have a music program. She is still able to manage 2+ hours on cello and 1 on piano each day.
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My kids also went/go to regular old public school. It’s a gifted program with a block schedule, so that does give them some flexibility, and also they don’t take a ton of APs, but it can be done. It is definitely a struggle though!
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That is nice to hear. My son still needs to learn to prioritize. He doesn’t have sufficient time to practice and it is a struggle every day.
What I was trying to inelegantly say in my prior post was-
It really does depend on what path your son wants to follow.
There probably are Olympic figure skaters who have Ivy level SATs and have taken all AP classes…. but my guess is that would be a rare bird. From my limited experience, raising one violinist, excelling at the violin these days takes a similar focus. (And I don’t mean to be a soloist, just to be a player with opportunities) Along with having the right teachers, and a family committed to supporting a somewhat irrational artistic endeavor.
There are discussions online, maybe here or Violinist.com if you search discussing the pros and cons of double majoring with violin at college level. All the best to your son!
This is very helpful. Thanks. Where do you think Bowdoin and Green Mountain would fall in this list of programs?
I won’t speak for TMV, but I’d put them near the top, perhaps just under Heifetz Sr and Meadowmount. (with Morningside Music Bridge and Perlman above those)
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It’s a little tricky to compare, because Kinhaven, Greenwood, and BUTI are high school age only, and Bowdoin and Green Mountain have a much wider age range. Bowdoin is on the higher side, probably comparable to Meadowmount for violin and viola (cello is very high at Meadowount).
The fellows at Bowdoin are quite good; the regular students decent. Generally, the precollege students accepted at Bowdoin are comparatively higher in level to the college students – in other words, not too much difference in level between them.
The level at Green Mountain lately is not as high. I know a number of precollege students who went last year that I would consider high intermediate or low advanced. But I think the range may be somewhat wide.
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In terms of level of play, I would rank Bowdoin, Green Mountain, Greenwood/BUTI, and then Kinhaven, and I don’t know anything about Brevard. Green Mountain is difficult to compare to high school programs like Greenwood/BUTI because they include conservatory/grad students. So highest level of play at Green Mountain is significantly higher than Greenwood/BUTI, but the lowest level of play at Green Mountain is probably lower than Greenwood/BUTI. Out of these programs my kids and their serious musician friends have had the hardest time getting in to Bowdoin. Kinhaven was easiest.
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Just curious has Kinhaven sent out decisions yet?
We’re also still waiting to hear back from Kinhaven.
Anyone know how the experience at Kinhaven is for older teens? 17/18 year old, I think my daughter would love it, but she is worried about being the oldest there.