Schools that offer strong music program that are not conservatories

Hi, my son is thinking of pursuing a BA in music rather than a BM in performance.

He is thinking that he will eventually go to law school, but would like to major in music for his undergrad. He is going to also apply to a few conservatories/music schools that are part of a university, but wants to explore the option of BA in music if the music is strong enough.

His criteria is that it must be somewhere in the Northeast/Midwest. Nowhere west of Chicago or South of Philadelphia. It also has to be very strong in music with lots of opportunities to both perform, compose, and explore things like conducting. An open curriculum would be great.

Some of the schools he is looking at so far are Oberlin (dual degree with BM), Eastman/UR, UMich, Bard, Ithaca, Case Western/CIM, BU. We are in NY. He isn’t interested in the SUNY schools.

Anyone have experience with music is at some of the LACs? Ivy’s and Other Universities that don’t neccessarily have a stand alone music school or conservatory?

He plays violin, has strong music extracurriculars including summer programs, several community orchestras, chamber music ensembles.

4.0 UW, 1470 SAT, strong LOR

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You’re the parent wanting to spend $60K, so I have no idea why Michigan is on your list. Indiana is the sub with one of the top music schools.

Case, BU, Rochester and Bard are unlikely to hit $60K so it seems like these schools should be if I have time applications. I suppose Case could hit $60K but not the others (in likelihood)

Just noting that for you.

Have you been on the music thread? You’ll see much more there.

But if you have a budget like you noted on your other thread, then that should drive your campus choice above all else.

Good luck.

This post is in the music majors forum. I’m sure folks with experience in music both conservatory and not will chime in.

Yale offers a BA in music, and has tons of opportunities for every kind of performance imaginable. A reach but a maybe.

Tufts is another option. So is Ithaca, or Oberlin or Bard or Case Western.
There are a lot of schools in the northeast with strong music programs for both performance and BA in music options. I see you have some of these on your list already! So, I agree with you!!

Check The Colleges That Change Lives lists. Some of them would work.

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Can you clarify what the budget is, and whether you would qualify for need based financial aid? This might impact which schools would be a good choice. In deciding upon the budget you might want to keep the potential cost of law school in mind.

U.Mass Amherst and U.Mass Lowell both have good music programs. Many years ago I used to have a guitar teacher who had started out at Berklee College of Music, ran out of money, and had finished his bachelor’s degree at U.Mass Lowell. He was needing to give a lot of music lessons to pay off his Berklee debt, and would have been better off if he had started at U.Mass (either location). Of course this does depend upon a student’s budget.

McGill has a superb music program. The biggest problem I see here is that it is known for grade deflation, which is not likely to help your son’s subsequent applications to law school.

I am curious why your son does not want to consider the various SUNY schools. Again understanding this reluctance might help some of us suggest other schools that might be a better fit. Staying in-state could help to save some college funds for law school.

Doesn’t McGill’s music school only offer BM degrees, though? (And graduate degrees, of course.)

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You might be right. The person I know who went their for music did get a BM (and also a master’s).

One daughter was considering McGill for a different major, but we toured the music department and she asked about music lessons and events. They did state that many of the professors in the music school also give lessons on the side to augment their income. Apparently some of the music students do also. There are also performances by students very, very frequently somewhere or other on campus.

However, you are probably correct about the BM part, and the grade deflation might be something to think about for someone interested in law school afterward.

I have a third-year conservatory student (BM) at Bard. Many of her classes are taken with BA Music students. DM if you have any questions!

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Vassar, Williams are mentioned for music. Brown, Amherst and Hamilton have free curricula (no distribution requirements) I believe. Other “little Iview” could be explored.

Colleges that Change Lives website is a great resource and many schools on there would be good ctcl.org. Clark, St.Olaf, others


Bard and Oberlin are reputed to have a “low wall” between conservatory and college. Oberlin also has a Musical Studies BA- maybe someone can speak to that.

Music at a level that includes summer programs can help with admissions via a music supplement as you probably know. Some Ivies are not free for incomes under $200k and there is aid above that level as well.

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Lawrence? (only slightly west of Chicago)

I believe that I commented on your other thread about Williams, macalaster, Vassar and Skidmore all have excellent music programs if they are in budget. My S24 is a sophomore at Williams and has had more Music opportunities than we could have imagined

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Budgetwise, we ‘could’ pay full price if we felt it was worth it. We won’t qualify for need based aid and have money saved for college, but we’d like to stay around 60k if at all possible. If he gets into a dream school, we could make full pay work if we had to but we don’t want to pay an over-inflated price for a school that really won’t be worth it in the long run. Suny schools are definitely the best deal price-wise, but he just doen’t love them. He’s played with a few of the professors from Suny schools and they are brilliant, but the schools and orchestras were not what he is looking for. He did like the vibe at Ithaca and will be playing with the violin professor there in a few weeks.

What he is really looking for is spectacular music even if it’s not a conservatory. He knows Harvard, Yale, Princeton will have phenomenal orchestras and performance opportunities. We’ve heard Williams and Amherst are also strong in music. But, these are all crazy high reaches.

We were looking to see if anyone has had experience playing very high level music at traditional liberal arts schools or universities. He lives and breathes music, so it’s the number one criteria for him even if he’s getting a BA degree.

Thanks!

There’s no such thing as a dream school. All have bad roomies or dorms or profs or food or something. Nowhere is perfect.

That’s the first mentality kids have to change.

And there’s a reasonable sub for everything. You note Michigan. Way out of budget. Indiana is Michigan and has a top ranked music program, as an example.

There will be subs at the LAC level as well. And it seems the student is not looking for a 2nd major - and for law school, the where won’t matter and that’s an expense too.

Once you start looking at schools more expensive, this statement is out the window. You open yourself to the possibility of $90K plus. So if you really mean this, you simply don’t go there. I don’t know whether it’s Lawrence, St. Olaf, or some others from another thread - Oberlin, Whitman (gives a merit aid pre-read) Clark, Trinity U, Southwestern, Puget Sound, Gettysburg (has a conservatory too),

But there are others that will hit your budget. But when you have a budget, once you open yourself to being outside of it, then that’s likely going to happen.

The goal is law school - and unless you can carry both undergrad and law school ($700Kish), you have to factor that in at time of looking, not at decision time when the student may very well desire that $90K+.

Just stopping by to comment that Oberlin has a “high wall" between the Con and other students. They are very open about this. Con has excellent opportunities but very limited for non-Con students.

Agree Skidmore has a strong arts flavor and if willing to bend on geography then St Olaf and Lawrence University will be great options from both an admission and financial perspective. They also both benefit from having a very large faction of the student body involved in music so it’s easy to find similarly passionate classmates in many majors. Our S24 who applied as a violin BA found that he loved how that felt on campus.

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I know it isn’t the northeast but we really liked the music department at Davidson also. They have a small music scholarship and full coa scholarships that are worth applying for.

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Where is your student ?

I’m to offer a few suggestions, even though some of them are slightly outside of the geographic priorities.

Seconding Lawrence (WI) and thirding St. Olaf (MN). If St. Olaf is okay geography wise, then also check out Gustavus Adolphus (MN) which is about the same distance from the Twin Cities, but in a slightly different direction. And in that same corner of the world, Luther (IA) would be another school to give a close look. If a student would be competitive for the Harvard-type schools, then St. Olaf is probably a likely (60-79% chance) and the others I suggested would be extremely likely (80+%).

Getting back into the desired geographic zone (i.e. not further west than Chicago and no further south than Philadelphia), then some other possibilities include:

  • Butler (IN): About 4500 undergrads in Indianapolis, so similarly-sized to Ithaca
  • Gettysburg (PA ): About 2200 undergrads (seconding this)

And I definitely agree with @tsbna44 about Indiana
it’s got a world-famous music program. And it offers B.S. in various music fields as well as B. Mus.

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Sometimes, for a BA in music, it can be better to avoid schools that have a BM degree program. There are exceptions of course but it is good to find out if the best teachers and performance opportunities go to the BM students.

I wonder about Brown, Tufts, Williams
.lots of others but with a music supplement some reaches are possible (if affordable)


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