Match my son [NY resident, 3.98 UW, 1470 SAT, music, pre-law, prefer <$60k]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US domestic
  • State/Location of residency: New York
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Public
  • Other special factors: none

Cost Constraits: none, but would prefer school with some merit aid. Won’t qualify for need based.

Intended Major(s): Music, pre-law

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.98
  • Class Rank: 10 of 385
  • ACT/SAT Scores: SAT 1470

List your HS coursework

(Indicate advanced level, such as AP, IB, AICE, A-level, or college, courses as well as specifics in each subject)

  • English: 4 years including Honors, AP lit, AP lang
  • Math: 4 years up to Honors pre-calculus
  • Science: 3 years - Biology, honors chem, honors earth science
  • History and social studies: 4 years- including AP World Hostory, AP US History, AP Gov & AP Econ
  • Language other than English: 4 years Spanish including honors and AP
  • Visual or performing arts: Orchestra 4 years, concert choir, AP music theory
  • Other academic courses: AP psychology, AP Computer Science

Very strong music extracurriculars: all state orchestra, 2 community youth orchestras, summer music festivals, concert master, winner of a couple concerto competitions, chamber music performer, volunteer at Philharmonic orchestra, showcased composer

Honor societies and national honor society, student union, HS leadership award, orchestra officer

Essays/LORs/Other
Very strong LOR, working on Essays

Schools:

Doesn’t want to go as far as west coast or south. Prefers a school with strong music, pre-law advising

  • Assured (100% chance of admission and affordability):
  • Extremely Likely: Most SUNY schools
  • Likely:
  • Toss-up:
  • Lower Probability:
  • Low Probability:
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Hi - so the first thing I’ll say is you - you need a budget. I’m a full pay family. But I told my kids, $50K per - so when you say, prefer with merit aid - well a $90K school that gives you $30K is $60K. And yet another could be $45K full pay - so it really helps if you give a formal number.

Pre-law is any major and anywhere and I believe where you go is irrelevant to the law school you’ll go. Harvard, Penn, and UVA all aren’t that large and all have more than 100 colleges represented in their first year class (well over 100) - and Penn over 200 in the school. Your GPA, LSAT and more and more today work experience will matter than where you go.

Pre-law advising - ehhhhh - any major qualifies. He’ll need a good LSAT - I wouldn’t let this drive a decision - that’s me.

Cost wise, your best bets are going to be in the south. With his stats, you could be low 20s - just putting that out there as a “cost” comparator for you.

Many will tell you schools like Rochester, Case Western, and further out, Lawrence U in Appleton Wis and St. Olaf in Minnesota.

SUNYs come in all sizes - is there a size or geography type he prefers?

There are flagships but then there are LACs - can you guide in that direction from 2K kids to 40K kids - kind of thing?

Thanks

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Just to be clear, @BuffaloViolinMom, are you saying that he wants to major in Music and then go on to law school?

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Yes, he loves music, but doesn’t want to make a career out of playing the violin. He wants to get a BA in music and then get into law school.

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Cost wise, we’re flexible. If possible, we would like to be below the 60k mark with merit aid.

He prefers small to medium size school. He’s open to a LAC. He visited URochester and Ithaca and liked both. He did not like Binghamton. He’s interested in U Mich and Boston U, but we have yet to visit. He does not want to go south or west at all. Crazy kid loves the cold.

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So UM and BU should be out if you want $60K. Don’t even bother. I suppose there’s a small chance at BU with merit but highly unlikely. UM for next year is more than $80K the first two years and $84K the last two - and you’re not going to get merit.

He wants small to Medium and you give me Michigan?? :slight_smile: Under $60K, you have Indiana, which is outstanding in music. Ohio State is another as well as UMN and Michigan State - all within budget.

If you apply to places over your budget, you’re just setting up for a - sorry son, I know you got in but you can’t go there or you cave and pay.

So instead of BU, look to other urban schools - Pitt, VCU - well known in arts, and maybe if it’s not too far south - College of Charleston, which will be smaller. These three are all urban and within your budget.

Other thoughts:

  1. U Cincy - but it’s a conservatory
  2. You went to Rochester - Case Western is one to look at - but like UR, may not hit $60K.
  3. U Hartford - Hartt school
  4. Hofstra
  5. MIllersville U (public in PA with a music school)
  6. Muhlenberg
  7. Christopher Newport - public LAC in Virginia
  8. Oberlin
  9. SUNYs like Purchase, Fredonia, and others (smaller)
  10. I noted St. Olaf and Lawrence before. Kalamazoo will be another to easily clear budget.

So - a few things:

  1. A degree in music - certainly you can go to law school - but what if he doesn’t? Maybe you should have a double major or do a music minor…because life will be tough with a music major (I think) if you’re doing something non-musical.
  2. Some schools will be audition required and I can’t project that.

I’m putting this thread - which you commented on. Not sure if it will be helpful:

School list for violin performance - College Majors / Music Majors - College Confidential Forums

Good luck

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How far south is “south” to you?

U of Richmond has strong performing arts, gives music-specific merit, and has strong pre-law, including a “PPEL” major (Philosophy, Politics, Economics & Law).

Gettysburg College also has conservatory-level music but offers a BA option, has solid pre-law academics, and gives merit.

But if he likes cold, St. Olaf, Lawrence U, Rochester, CWRU, etc. might be more his speed!

College of Wooster would give him good merit, and has good music… and it gets pretty cold!

Pre-Law — The College of Wooster

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Did you do the npc for highly selective LACs such as Williams, Amherst? Those schools are incredibly generous and love musicians. For less selective schools agree with Lawrence, Gettysburg and St Olaf but they all have BM degrees which are more selective. Oberlin has a BA in music that is less competitive than the conservatory but I do not know how music opportunities work for non conservatory students. S24 who is a musician also applied to Emory, Macalaster, Geneseo, and Binghamton, all who have BA music programs that are excellent

My S24 is a musician at Williams college and we have been amazed at the opportunities. He has not only been in orchestra and chamber groups but has been invited to play in master classes and the pit orchestra doe both the musical and opera. I am not sure he would have had any of those opportunities if he was at a school where there was a BM music program.

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Thanks! Amherst and Williams are on the list to look at. We weren’t sure if they were both too much of a reach for him and also too much $$$ but Williams in particular seems to have fantastic music opportunities.

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Please feel free to pm me with any Williams related questions. We are full pay and we all believe it is totally worth it for so many reasons. They have a new conductor who is young and enthusiastic and has further expanded music options. It may be worthwhile btw to move this to the music forum which is surprisingly quiet this year but there are others who have lots of advice on this topic

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Oh and since this hasn’t been mentioned yet (I think) make sure that he makes an audition level video to send to the reach schools. My son sent the same pieces that he sent for prescreens at audition based programs. I also suggest reaching out to music faculty and taking a sample lesson if possible. We are certain that helped S24 with admissions

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Most BA in Music programs do not require an audition.

The parent said his kid doesn’t want to make a career out of music. And the kid wants a BA, not a performance degree. This is not a bad choice at all for someone wanting to attend professional school in the future.

@BuffaloViolinMom I would also suggest he look at St. Olaf. It might check a bunch of boxes.

@compmom perhaps you can give some guidance for this student who wants a BA in music NOT a performance degree.

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What about Bard? Or Oberlin?

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Did you have a sample lesson at Williams? I didn’t even think of setting one up for the LACs, but that might be a great idea.

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Yes. He had sample lessons at Williams, Davidson, Vassar, and Emory. He was going to do more but was accepted to Williams ED.

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If you don’t qualify for aid, well, Williams is over $90K. I understand, to one parent it’s worth it - but given this statement, you shouldn’t even go there because again, what do you say if you get in?

Are you willing to say - honey, sorry, we cant send you there or are you going to cave and spend well over $100K more than you anticipated.

You can run the NPC and see if there’s aid but - you have to decide up front a budget and not go above what that budget is. If it’s full pay, then fine - but then you can’t say - we’d like to stay within $60K.

So as a parent, I wouldn’t even give Williams consideration.

Don’t forget, law school may be another $300K - and where you go undergrad isn’t necessarily giving you a leg up on law school. So you need to have a budget plan - and if it truly is a budget plan, then stick to said plan.

Also, @thumper1 I’m looking at schools online and many require an audition for a BA in music.

Thanks

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@BuffaloViolinMOm I will PM you but for now, first, it is probably helpful to post on the music forum as well. Check out the Double Degree Dilemma essay pinned in the Read Me section which is really about ways to study music, though it omits the option of BA in something else (see below).

What happens when you mention music is that folks suggest schools “known for good music” but often those schools have on campus conservatories or schools of music, with BM degrees, and the BM students may get the best teachers and opportunities. This can vary, but is something to check out. (Note: Wooster has both BA and BM degrees…)

I am not sure you realize the advantage of your son’s musical experience at some reach schools, including Ivies. He should be doing a music supplement (if the school accepts it) with recording/video, music resume, and 1-2 letters of recommendation related to music. These should not just be about talent, and can include work ethic, how he works with others, curiosity, breadth of interests, whatever…..

In our experience submission of a recording/video is not the same level of requirement as a prescreen or audition recording/video. In fact, my kid asked Harvard, for instance, how much they wanted my kid to cue and Harvard admissions said “just cue the best 3 minutes.” One piece was sufficient in my kid’s case. The resume and LOR’s are important in a way they are not for BM’s. A most BA schools, auditions happen in freshman fall for various ensembles, orchestra etc. but not for admission.

He can major in music, minor in music, double major, double degree or even not do music at all (electives only , or even no electives). He can continue lessons and extracurricular performance, do summer programs, and still get into grad programs for music if that is what he wants.

If he want law school, sure, major in music if that is what he wants. Or major in history or whatever he wants, and do lessons and EC performance.

Harvard and some other schools are now free for incomes under $200k. Check out what you would need to pay before discounting schools like this, because his music will indeed help with admissions (though violins are of course more common than, say, oboe or French horn). He would appear to meet academic benchmarks.

Many kids I know who did a BA in music are still doing music, some with doctorates now. But one went to law school, one works in children’s tv, one works in arts administration, one got a grad degree in Medieval Studies…I could go on. (Of course some doctors are still playing…)

So any decisions made now are not written in stone and I am a firm believer in doing what you love as an undergrad.

Schools that might be fits: Williams, Amherst, Vassar, McAlaster, Tufts, Clark University.

I would look at Ivy League schools, “little Ivies” ( google that), and the website Colleges that Change Lives. Lots of great schools on the latter site.

ps Sample lesson may or may not be useful. We waited for acceptances and then kid attended classes, concerts and met with faculty or chair. A BA will be approximately 1/4 classes in music (BM approx. 3/4) so make sure to look into other factors like distribution requirements (Brown, Hamilton, others have none), location, size and most of all, vibe!

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My D23 is a 3rd year at Bard Conservatory, but they also have a very good non-audition music BA. Music students take many of their classes with conservatory students. Lots of opportunities to play music in school ensembles, student-run ensembles, bands, etc. Music students have the ability to audition later on for the conservatory if desired.

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Note that Bard Conservatory requires a 5 year double degree….Bard and Oberlin are reputed to have a “low wall” between college and conservatory.

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Just to clarify, the BM degree program (Conservatory) is a 5-year double degree program, but the non-audition BA degree program (College) is a four-year program.

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