<p>I find it curious that brown-nosing often seems to work in the high school environment. I certainly saw it work well when I was a student, my kids tell me stories of how classmates have successfully “sucked up,” and I’ve watched parents do it too at back-to-school-nights with apparently good results. (“My daughter just adores your class. She really had a blast doing that last assignment. It was such a creative project”…blah blah blah.)</p>
<p>I’ve done a little teaching myself and have found attempts at flattery from my students or their parents to be very irritating, if not infuriating. Being nice, respectful, and even complimentary WHEN WARRANTED is one thing and will never hurt, but what I find interesting is that the over-done, insincere, schmoozing attempts seem to work well too. (These are cases when the student or parent themselves joke about their brown-nosing afterwards to their friends, so I know my assessment that it was deliberate brown-nosing wasn’t flawed by my cynicism. Then you see their efforts pay off later as far as awards or assistance for their kids, etc.) Are that many people so insecure that they allow themselves to believe in insincere praise? Are people so stupid that they don’t see what’s going on? Does it make teachers feel guilty or obligated somehow? </p>
<p>For example, it astounds me how much parents seem to be able to find to say to the total strangers who become their children’s high school coaches, band directors, club sponsors or teachers. What would you have to say to a coach after every single game? Beyond comments like thank you, it was a wonderful concert, etc. how much is there to say to the music teacher? Maybe everyone is just more talkative, sociable, grateful or whatever than I am? I don’t know, I’ve certainly written thankyou notes/e-mails when a teacher has done something beyond the call of duty, and of course I’ve given compliments in person too, but the level of fawning and effusiveness I see dished out stuns me.</p>
<p>Totally agree- I can’t believe these people don’t see through it. Not only on the part of parents but on the part of the students as well. Lord, how do they look themselves in the mirror each morning. But it does seem to work, doesn’t it…</p>
<p>With some teachers or coaches it is easy and natural to develop a relationship. I’m a musician, so I always enjoy talking shop with the choir or band director. Parents who have worked on costumes or sets for a show have something in common with the director, especially after having multiple children go through the drama program. Sports coaches don’t interest me so much, but I can understand a parent who has something in common with them and enjoys chatting, even in the brief time after a game.</p>
<p>But I would never try to ingratiate myself with a teacher or coach just to be able to “use” them in the future.</p>
<p>I’ve been astonished as well. I’ve also been astonished at the more nefarious methods people go to when they don’t get what they want- taking their kid’s papers to independent consultants for ‘second opinion grading’, complaining to the principal when their kids don’t get to play, writing scathing letters when the kid gets her first “B”, trying to get the chorus teacher fired because kid didn’t get selected for All State. Between the two alternatives, I think the smoozing is preferable. Those who don’t say anything one way or the other… they’re buried in the noise.</p>
<p>It works because that is the way of our world–not just teachers and schools. It is truly amazing to watch a brown-nosing episode in live motion! I often wonder if people are that insecure or are they truly that confident?</p>
<p>I remember one mom at an MIT info session. In about 2 sentences with the admissions rep she managed to drop her son’s name, school, & interests several times! :P</p>
<p>I’ve been the kind of parent who does speak to teachers, especially the ones my daughters really enjoyed. Why?</p>
<p>Because there’s no amount of pay that would be sufficient for some of the teachers who have touched my kids’ lives. The really good ones that they have, have gone above and beyond to be the kinds of teachers they are, and I want them to know it’s very much appreciated. I would never do this to a teacher that I hadn’t heard glowing reports on from my kids.</p>
<p>Regarding coaches and extracurricular teachers - again, the ones my kids have had have enriched my kids’ lives beyond any paycheck. They have limited resources, and I have been able to be very flexible and generous with my time in volunteering for these teachers. Often when I am talking with them, after a concert, during teacher conferences, etc., it’s to talk logistics about something (where I put the cash box/how much concessions made/directions to a cast party, etc.). Many times these teachers will acknowledge all the parents who have helped out in some way or another, so while I may be congratulatory of a performance, event, etc., I am also acknowledging it is a team success that includes all parents who have pitched in to help out. </p>
<p>Case in point, youngest daughter graduated from high school last year. Last week, the theatre director held a benefit to raise funds for this year’s group of kids who will be performing at our state’s theatre festival next week. When I found out they were doing this, I e-mailed him right away and asked what I could do to help out. I enjoy knowing I can affirm this teacher (who my daughter has to have lunch with whenever she’s home from college) through validating his program, mentoring and supporting in any way I can (I’ve also given large anonymous monetary donations to his department - anonymous so no one can accuse me of trying to win over his loyalties to my kid). </p>
<p>I find it imperative to affirm teachers who have touched my kids’ lives so much and have had such a significant hand in their successes in high school. When my daughters played sports, I always volunteered to do stuff, as I figured whatever I could do, freed up time the coach could use to actually be… coaching. When you’re involved at this level, it is just plain more efficient to exchange information when in person. </p>
<p>The last thing I would call these important people in my kids’ lives would be strangers.</p>
<p>When I do give praise, it’s for something my kid has told me about, so it’s not insincere (I will say, “DD told me about _____ She’s sooo excited about it.”). It’s very specific, and I genuinely want to encourage how these teachers are reaching kids.</p>
<p>teri, what you describe is sincere and not brown nosing. I’m friends with several of my kids old teachers, and my kids are long done with school.</p>
<p>OTOH, my kids had a coach who was constantly brown nosed by insincere, disloyal, suckup parents. They were constantly kissing up to him, inviting him out to dinner, bringing gifts to him, talking their kids up, all that. My kids didn’t particularly care for the guy, but were respectful and good players. (They didn’t care for him because he played favorites with the kids whose parents did suck up and donated lots of money.) Anyway…</p>
<p>Fast forward a few years- we’re all done with high school, all the kids have graduated. The guy died a few months ago. The memorial service was announced, and old players/families were asked to attend if they could. We, and ONE other father/son were the only people to attend out of ALL the years he coached, and we weren’t one of the ‘favored’. It was disgusting. None of those fakers bothered to take the time to pay respects. Once their kids were done, they were done. All that fake friendship/come-to-my-party/let-me-know-what-I-can-do BS was over. </p>
<p>That’s what I think of when someone says ‘brown-noser’.</p>
<p>but the OP wants to know about all those parents who have to talk to every coach or every teacher, etc. after every game/performance. I think it’s judgmental to assume that every parent who is talking to a teacher is brown-nosing. By the OP’s standards, if they saw me at my kids’ high school after an event, I’d be automatically labeled a brown-noser.</p>
<p>I loved to talk to those teachers because we were usually talking about the activity that my kid was passionate about.</p>
<p>teriwtt, I agree with the need to affirm those people who are really working hard for the kids. The older I get, the more gratefulness I feel and hope I’m expressing to those folks. I think people understand that parent volunteers will develop relationships with teachers that other parents won’t. This is not what we’re talking about, though it could be in some cases when the volunteering is shallow and admittedly 100% selfishly motivated. One mother I know volunteered 40 hours per week in the school and came right out and said that it was so her kids would always get what they needed, ie. the best teachers, etc. Your benevolence appears to be genuine good-heartedness, since you are continuing to help even though your child has left the system and seem interested in the endeavor for its own sake. I think most of us can tell the difference between people like you and the ones who are ingratiating themselves in order to get something.</p>
<p>Didn’t see doubleplay’s post before I posted. (The forum keeps sending me back to log in again and again). Anyway, what doubleplay describes is exactly what I mean.</p>
<p>I hope my sons’ teachers don’t think I’m brown nosing when I tell them how much they love the class, I don’t do it too often, but I sometimes get carried away, because there aren’t that many truly great teachers.</p>
<p>Well, for one thing I think we parents should have taught our children to express their own gratitude by the time they reach high school. I know my college son did so with those few really great teachers he had in hs. If we’ve taught our young adults to be generous in spirit, then they will do that on their own which will mean more I think. </p>
<p>Expressing your gratitude in May or June makes sense. Gushing in late September is probably brown-nosing.</p>
<p>When I read the first post, I felt exactly as teriwtt wrote. I guess the exception would be the parents who told you afterwards or joke/admit that they were brownnosing. Otherwise, what you describe about being complimentary to teachers and EC coaches/directors is something I do as teri does because these folks are underappreciated. I was once a teacher and I know I would love hearing positive feedback, rather than just the complaints. We always went up to a music or theater director after a school performance and commented positively about what was achieved by the kids and so forth. We always chat with the athletic coaches and try to be positive and supportive of the team and their efforts. We try to attend some of these events now that the kids are already graduated. Even since my kids have graduated, if I run into a really fine teacher they had, I tell them what an effect they had on my kid now that she is in college and how what they did and taught had a very positive influence. What do I have to gain? Nothing. But I go out of my way to tell them. Even my kids do this and go back to see such folks when they are in town. I recall my younger one last year, as she was walking to opening night of a musical at college for which she was the musical director, she called her piano teacher back home and told her what an influence she had been to get her to this level to be doing what she is doing and wanted to thank her for all those years of teaching her since age seven. I don’t think any of this is brownnosing but it fits the actions you described in the first post. None of it is with thoughts of gaining benefits. It is all for the purpose of showing appreciation for the job they are doing. As far as talking to current coaches…it isn’t really focused on our child as much as support for the team and so forth.</p>
<p>I think parents should play a role as team members in their children’s education and activities and should support those who put in the effort with their children. As a teacher, I surely would welcome that contact from parents, their positive involvement, and their compliments and demonstrations of appreciation. It is not done ENOUGH for teachers, in my view.</p>
<p>“We always went up to a music or theater director after a school performance and commented positively about what was achieved by the kids and so forth. We always chat with the athletic coaches and try to be positive and supportive of the team and their efforts.”</p>
<p>ALWAYS? Maybe it’s the always part that bother me. Was every game and every concert and every performance such a stellar effort that comments from you were ALWAYS required? Did you ALWAYS coincidentally cross paths with the teacher/coach/director afterward, or did you ALWAYS seek him out? Do you ALWAYS develop a personal relationship with every adult in your child’s life? I guess I’m imagining what would happen after a concert at our hs, in which 500 kids participate, if every parent ALWAYS had to find the director to “chat” or give compliments afterward. Or what would happen if, after spending hours of time with a team on a weekend for a tournament, if the coach now had to stick around to talk with every parent–ALWAYS. I would consider that an imposition and would feel I was giving myself too much importance if I thought the director or coach ALWAYS needed to hear from me. </p>
<p>Not saying anything about you, sooz, but it’s those always kind of parents who make me suspicious.</p>
<p>I live in a small community. Yes, after every concert or school show, we did try to say something positive to the directors. I feel our job is to be supportive. At most sporting events, we saw the coaches. Parents are involved here and most do try to say supportive comments. I think being supportive and involved is good. At some point, if an issue arises, you already have some rapport as well. I don’t think it is good to just go in and complain and never tell the good stuff. </p>
<p>You asked if every concert or performance warranted compliments? Yes, I think the effort that went into them did warrant positive feedback. I know what’s involved in these events and they are to be commended for the effort and the job that the kids did. </p>
<p>If it is a sport event, there has to be something supportive to say about the team. It seems like good sportsmanship to me to be supportive no matter how stellar (or not) the outcome of a sports event. </p>
<p>Let me say that there are no events that my kids are in that involve 500 kids participating. And no, not every parent says something supportive. But I do think it is appreciated when their (teachers, directors, coaches) efforts are appreciated. As I said, I’ve been a teacher and I would welcome such support, contact, and positive reinforcement for my efforts. I also would rather listen to a complaint/concern from a parent who had been involved and supportive than one who only makes an appearance when they have a complaint.</p>
<p>I never saw complimenting and showing support of teachers as brownnosing as I never even considered anything to gain. I thought it was the proper thing to do to show appreciation and support of the job that teachers and those who work with children do. I do this even when my own kid is not in the event!</p>
<p>I spoke with teachers for some of the same reasons as I’m on CC, enjoyment and interest in the educational process. I appreciated gaining a deeper knowledge of what they are doing in the classroom, and who they are as people. We have a common goal-the education of my children. Forming allegiances with anyone who has similar goals to mine comes naturally. Communication with teachers is an outgrowth of who I am as a person, rather than a plot to influence unnecessarily. I offer my help where appropriate. I talk with the bank teller, the mailperson, the teachers, and enjoy the sense of community that results.</p>
<p>I compliment my sons’ teachers as warranted, which is often. They have/had great teachers. Don’t see this as brown-nosing at all but as much-needed praise for overworked, underpaid professionals. I think most good teachers recognize insincerity. Sometimes, the teachers can provide insight into a class you may not get from a monosyllabic 15yo.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m up early because this morning I’m serving breakfast to teachers returning to school today. Hope that’s not seen as brown-nosing!!!</p>