<p>I think we need a test for brown-nosers!! Suggestions for questions?</p>
<p>Here’s a few:</p>
<p>Since having children, have you ever performed community service in arenas other than where your children are currently involved? </p>
<p>Do you accept behind the scenes, anonymous volunteer assignments at your child’s school?</p>
<p>Have you gone out to lunch or dinner with every one of your children’s teachers and coaches?</p>
<ol>
<li>Of course</li>
<li>Yes</li>
<li>Never.</li>
</ol>
<p>Good questions!</p>
<ol>
<li>Whe you arrive at the HS to pick up your child do you wait in the car or do you go into the building? </li>
</ol>
<p>If you are constantly going into the building you really ought to ask yourself “why?” This should be their world…not yours.</p>
<p>Haha. I’ve only had to go into the building for my youngest because I can see him through the glass doors…reading…not looking out for me…</p>
<p>Yes, though most of my volunteerism is in the schools. That’s just my area of interest. For instance, I serve on a districtwide committee for the schools but don’t think that has any direct benefit to my kids at all.</p>
<p>Yes, though I’m often in leadership roles now that I’m a stay-at-home mom. I’ve got the time and inclination to take key positions.</p>
<p>No. I don’t think I’ve ever had dinner with any of my sons’ teachers (though sometimes we are at the same parties/happy hours).</p>
<p>Good questions.</p>
<ol>
<li>I make him take the bus! : )</li>
</ol>
<p>I look at it like this- whether sincere or insincere, it doesn’t phase me what the parent does. He or she can suck up all she wants; if she wants to spend six hours a day sucking up at the school- go for it. It is the duty of the teacher/coach/administrator to disregard parental involvement when it comes to evaluating junior. Obviously, a teacher should not grade a kid’s test or paper differently than another because of mom. A coach should not alter his game strategy to appease dad. A guidance counselor should not tweak certain kids’ folders to their advantage because of their parent’s donation to the school. It’s incumbent upon those folks to maintain proper decorum and ethics when dealing with students. If those people lose sight of this and succomb to parental pressure, it’s their problem, not the parents. The parents are just doing what they’ve been ‘taught’.</p>
<p>Did it go on at our high school? You betcha. But I blame it on the school, not the parents.</p>
<p>Yes doubleday!! As long as parents get results, their “learned” behavior will continue. Junior can’t hlep it if his mom can’t or doesn’t want to volunteer many hours at school, and shouldn’t be treated any differently than the child whose mom is there all the time. It’s funny–if you’ve ever spent any time on a sports forum, you’ll notice that coaches almost universally say that they love working with kids but hate dealing with parents and would prefer not to have to interact with mom and dad at all. That’s why I wonder why these same coaches allow brown-nosing behavior to influence them?</p>
<p>Not sure I understand this “test.” </p>
<p>Yes, I have volunteered in arenas in which my own children were not involved.</p>
<p>Yes, I have accepted behind the scenes anonymous volunteer assignments at the school.</p>
<p>No, I have not gone out to lunch or dinner with every teacher, etc. and in fact, I haven’t gone out with any. </p>
<p>(I have attended parent/athlete/coach potluck dinners aimed at bonding in high school. Coaches wanted parents to be involved. That is how our community operates. Also, now in college, we attend our D’s athletic events along with other parents and we bring all the lunch food for the team, coaches and parents and everyone eats and talks together…including coaches. I have also had dinners together with the entire team, coaches, and any parents attending at national championships…parents are very very welcomed in these situations with my D’s team and usually provide all the food as well.)</p>
<p>The description of the parental activities here are things I DO do, but I do not feel I have ever brown-nosed. Brown-nosing implies being involved or in contact with the hopes of something in return. What we do is support teachers, coaches, and directors. We both have volunteered a lot in our school system. We see it as beneficial for the children in the schools to have this extra support and also for the teachers who appreciate the help and support. We try to give positive feedback on things so that we don’t just complain when a problem arises. Teachers often get to hear the bad stuff and not enough mention of what they are doing right. As far as coaches, our contact is not about our child but simply a friendly supportive parent who is out there supporting the team. The coaches I have known seem to really welcome and like that the parents here are involved in this way. We don’t ask for anything for our child. We’re there to support the team and coach (and of course our child knows we are there to support her.) There is no “influencing” the coach or show director or music person at school. It is simply being supportive parents who are willing to volunteer as needed, come out to support the events and give positive feedback to the efforts of both the adults and children involved. So, we do these things but we do not brown-nose and I don’t think of these things as brown-nosing. I don’t doubt that there are people who have ulterior motives when talking to adults who work with their children but that is not where we are coming from. If we compliment a dance teacher, a music concert director, a play director, a coach, a teacher, a guidance counselor, it is because we feel that their efforts warranted recognition and support.</p>
<p>It may not be the same coach. Or it may be that the coach is being put in a bad position, hates it, but does what he has to do to survive. </p>
<p>For example, given a team that is extremely low on funds- field in disrepair, no money for uniforms and equipment, horrible facilities for practice, unable to meet basic expenses like tournament fees and umpiring… coach knows that parents a, b, and c have deep pockets and are willing to underwrite the necessary expenses, but knows that this does not come without a cost. Junior will have to be given at least some time on the infield, or whatever. Normally, coach would not even consider junior for the position, but what the heck, if it gets the team that necessary funding, he’ll do what he has to do. In his eyes, it doesn’t really make a difference if he puts junior in for a few of the games that don’t count- junior isn’t going to do too much damage. Deep down inside, he wishes he didn’t have to deal with junior’s parents, and that they would just hand the $ over. It’s sort of like being boxed into a corner.</p>
<p>Edit: I’m all for giving kids that are second tier players a good shot. The bad thing about the team politics, is that the kids that are hurt the MOST are the hardworking kids that are sitting the fence- they’re improving everyday, they would get better with more playing time, they’re working their behinds off and have a good attitude. Those are the players that get displaced by junior.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes I’ve done things outside school, but honestly more now that my kids are out of elementary school.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not sure it was possible to do anything totally anonymously at our school. The two committees that I got most involved in Reading is Fundamental and our Learning Garden involved a lot of face time with teachers, but I thought they contributed to every child in the school and were fun for me. I also got roped into being PTA president for two years. </p></li>
<li><p>The only time I had lunch with teachers was when I was invited to be a part of a couple of school based committees that met at lunch time.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>doubleplay, I think now you are talking of a different sitaution and of parents who are giving money to the teams. That is not the same as being supportive, volunteering, talking/complimenting the effort of the coach and team.</p>
<p>“We always went up to a music or theater director after a school performance and commented positively about what was achieved by the kids and so forth. We always chat with the athletic coaches and try to be positive and supportive of the team and their efforts.”</p>
<p>I think this is great, but to be honest with you, I’d often like to choke those parents. I don’t think that the end of a performance that involves many kids is the place to do this. As an example of what I mean, my son’s musical performance was just lovely last month. After the program, but before the principal’s announcements, scores (literally) of parents converged upon the music director. The rest of the events couldn’t proceed because so many people wanted to speak with her and, frankly, the reason for that is that her recommendation carries huge weight in terms of getting those kids into the music magnet program in intermediate school. If you need to speak with a teacher, think about whether that person might be trying to leave or have something else to do after performances and have some consideration. This particular woman has to lock up certain things before she can leave the building and she can’t do that until she gets through the crowd of people saying “aren’t you wonderful! My Johnny thinks you are his hero! I just know you’ll recommend him for the magnet program.” Don’t get me wrong, positive feedback is crucial, but think about the time and place and have some consideration.</p>
<p>Zooser, all schools and communities are different. You are describing a situation where you say some parents are trying to get on this person’s good side to be recommended to a magnet program. In our case, there are NO ulterior motives. There are not hundreds of parents swarming these folks (we have a much smaller school and community). If I see the person, I most definitely compliment them on the fine concert or show. These folks seem very happy to receive such support. Maybe it is where I live. Also, there is no hold up of the event. Rather, as the kids and directors come out of the stagedoor, it is tradition here that supporters congratulate them and they all hang out in that corridor and receive the good wishes of support. I don’t “need to speak to the teacher” and it is not about my own child. I do the same even if my own child is not involved. Everyone knows everyone here and we like to support these events and the adults who run them.</p>
<p>Soozievt, if your events are smaller, then it’s not a problem on the same scale. In my community, events often involve hundreds of kids and even more parents. Even the sincere good wishes are an imposition in that situation. If in your community, there is an opportunity to offer good wishes and congratulations, that just goes to show why your community must be a wonderful place to live.</p>
<p>Having successfully escaped from the business world, and then getting much more involved with my kids’ middle schools and high schools, I most usually bristle at the term “brown-nosing”. I agree w/ soozie and teri that the key is ulterior motives vs. sincerity. Unfortunately, most of the people who complain the most about brown-nosing tend to assume that people have ulterior motives when they really don’t…D1 was very close to several of her teachers junior/senior year, and I’m quite sure she was accused of being a brown-noser… that the only reason she got her stellar grades was NOT the hours of studying she did, her true love of learning, etc. but instead was her brown-nosing. What a bunch of crap (pardon the pun!). In high school, it’s not “cool” to like school, to consider teachers as real people, and to enjoy learning. So, if you cross that line, you get the Brown-nosing moniker. As a parent, I tried to stay mostly out of “her world”, but sent more than one supporting/thank-you email to teachers (ccing administrators)… I did pass the “quiz” above (and passed, thank you…) </p>
<p>In the business world, any manager worth their salt can identify those with ulterior motives…and I suspect teachers are in the same boat. Most of the Eddie Haskell types are pretty transparent. It’s just that I resent those who tend to assume that the only/main reason others are successful is that they are brown-nosers.</p>
<p>“I guess I am one of those that was on the fence and leaning pro-Hillary mainly because I felt that Obama would get creamed in the general election”</p>
<p>My kids have had teachers who changed their lives and I’ve expressed gratitude, just privately. In some communities, private can be better.</p>
<p>I really believe strongly in being complimentary when I can in part because I don’t hesitate to be critical or ask for change if I think things are not working. As a consequence, I look for opportunities to sincerely tell a teacher that my son loves his course or her assignment. I told one teacher that I thought she was the best teacher of writing I had seen and that although my daughter probably wasn’t ready to take it all in, I was extremely impressed at how good she was. [Said at year-end]. I prefer compliments to be separate from and often prior to any thoughts of criticism or request for change. I’ve offered to teach classes in my area of expertise for a couple of my son’s outstanding teachers in classes where my area of expertise would complement what they are doing. And, I have written memos to the Principal, head of Special Ed, and Assistant Superintendent letting them know what an excellent job my son’s Special Ed person has done in enabling him to excel.</p>
<p>But, people do have strong needs to be liked and appreciated, especially in the school context in which the work environment may not be the most reinforcing of all time. So, they are susceptible to what might seem like obviously insincere flattery aimed solely at getting something they want. I have an employee who can be wonderful at this and I am amazed that he continues to get away with it. He can turn on this “sincere” gaze of concern and combine it with words of admiration. It works with clients. It worked for a while with me and the other partner of my firm, and it worked for while with the other employees, although people learn to read it over time. But, I think it still works to a certain extent, even with people who are used to it. It’s unfortunate that it does, but people seem to be wired to respond positively.</p>
<p>In response to the three part test, I don’t generally volunteer anonymously or in social services things in the school – I do pro bono projects where I think my effort can have the most impact (but that might be in Nepal rather than in our community). I’ll donate money if there is a worthy project and help my kids execute their social service efforts. And, I don’t take teachers out to lunch, but I do meet with every teacher (for my son only) at the beginning of year to get them to understand his somewhat unusual neurology – he has a very high IQ and is very dyslexic – and I want to get them to have both very high expectations and expect to make some accommodations/modifications for him. But, that meeting is not about complimenting them, but rather laying out what will help my son. So, I think I pass the test.</p>
<p>I almost detect some sour grapes here by the original poster. Are you certain “every” conversation is brown nosing? </p>
<p>As far as tests go I guess the main question would be "would I talk to this person, if they weren’t involved with my kid? Sometimes that’s hard to answer honestly as most of us were taught by our parents to be respectful. However, most of the time it’s easy. If it’s a good person, it’s no different than talking to anyone else. </p>
<p>Besides sometimes, unless you’re right there as part of the conversation, you have no idea… Had a parent complain to me at a tournament that I treated my son “differently” because at half I walked out and met him on the pitch and talked to him away from the rest of the team. I walked over to the parent and answered his question … “because I would never swear at your child.” Ten seconds later… “oh.” 
Sometimes the conversation ain’t that special… or in the way you think.</p>
<h1>37</h1>
<p>“I guess I am one of those that was on the fence and leaning pro-Hillary mainly because I felt that Obama would get creamed in the general election”</p>
<p>
???</p>
<p>I think I know what happened . Either that or I really need to read the bios of those two again. ;)</p>