Bucknell [$58,496] vs William & Mary [$67,722] vs U. Richmond [$85,730] for Political Science [parents can afford $76,140]

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I’m a graduating senior this year and have already applied and been accepted to colleges. I’m trying to choose between Bucknell University, William and Mary, and the University of Richmond. I have a few specific questions, but I would greatly appreciate any general thoughts.

Richmond is at list price for me, $85,730/year. I don’t live in Virginia, so W&M is $67,722. I’m a Presidential Fellow at Bucknell, which takes the cost down to $58,496/year. My family can afford to pay $76,140/year; the rest I’ll take as loans.

I’m intending to major in Political Science and minor in Creative Writing and Religious Studies. I would love to study abroad and will likely apply for internships. Outside of the classroom, I’m a bit of an introvert but I like to go out.

Bucknell is the least academically rigorous school I’m considering, but the Presidential Fellows program more than makes up for that. I would be required to do paid research with a professor from day one. After talking to a lot of current fellows, it’s clear they love the program and are treated as equal partners by their professors. My main concern about Bucknell is the greek life. From what I’ve heard, it dominates the social scene, throwing parties every weekend which are mostly closed. They also drink a lot. I would like to go to parties in college, and it’s cool having something to do every Friday/Saturday. However, I’d rather not be forced to rush or go into an Animal House-esque scene. If anyone knows any more chill fraternities or has any thoughts on Bucknell’s social scene, I’d love to hear them.

William & Mary, on the other hand, is technically “the best” school I got into. They have a great career placement center and an incredible poli-sci program. The alumni network is also super strong. I’m considering law school, and W&M has a pipeline into the best post-grads in the nation. However, I have three main concerns about the school. First is the size. W&M is the largest school I’m considering, at about 7k undergrads, which is double the size of the other two. I’m coming from a relatively small school, so I’m not used to that sort of atmosphere. I also visited the school on admitted students day, so there was a lot more “Rah-Rah” energy than I liked. Class sizes are bigger than my other two schools. The second concern is the academics. I like learning and I do well in school, but I don’t want to make college work my entire life. I heard that W&M can be competitive and there is a lot of work. Those are pretty typical tradeoffs for a great education, but I would like to enjoy my time in college. My last concern is that of the social life. Visiting on admitted students day, I saw a lot of the incoming class. It seemed quite introverted, made up of a lot of alternative and “nerdy” people. I’m a metalhead and can get into that scene, but I’d still appreciate the option for nightlife and parties like Bucknell has. If anyone could comment on these issues, that would be awesome.

My final school is the University of Richmond. I visited it first a few years back and fell in love. The campus, the facilities, and the location are all perfect. I appreciate being close to a major city but still feeling remote. The academics are also solid and there are great poli-sci internships available in Richmond. I have three main concerns. First, is obviously the money. This is the only school I would have to take out loans for, and its starting salary for poli-sci is the lowest of the three. I’m not sure if I can justify 80k a year, especially if I’m considering grad school. Next is the career center. I heard from a couple sources that Richmond’s career center for poli-sci is not awesome and finding jobs after college can be difficult. Finally, I heard somewhere that the social scene can be kind of cliquey. I can deal with that, but I would just like to clear it up. If anyone has any experience with U Richmond, it would be awesome to hear.

One general concern I have for all my schools is the political climate. Especially going poli-sci, I’ll be in an environment where politics can be dividing. I’d like a place where people can be friends despite differing opinions. I know there are always a few good/bad eggs, but it would be cool if that were the general atmosphere. I’m also concerned about poli-sci teachers grading based on subjective opinion. I’m not sure how much of an issue it is at any of these schools, but I had a friend who was complaining about it elsewhere and I want to be sure it’s not the case at these three.

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I think that Bucknell, Richmond, and W&M are likely quite comparable in terms of academic quality. You likely won’t exhaust the academic resources at any of them.

But the settings are quite different and it looks like cost is a concern as well.

You can only take out like $5-$7k per year as a student, which would mean that to cover the cost at Richmond, your folks would need to take out additional funds or you would need to cover the gap with wages from a job. So from that standpoint, Richmond could prove difficult to swing.

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To be blunt, the loans you would have to take out to make Richmond work would likely be a dealbreaker for me. Maybe if it was clearly the best academic program for you, but it isn’t, so I struggle with the idea of taking out so much in loans for the cited non-academic purposes.

Between Bucknell and William & Mary, my guess is in each case you would “find your people”. That said, Bucknell really is very isolated, so I think there is maybe more risk there. Indeed, I would not think of Bucknell as a great choice for “night life” outside of the party scene, although there are a few local bars.

On the other hand, while I don’t know if William & Mary is more competitive than Bucknell (that is not their reputation in my circles), certainly kids at William & Mary tend to be pretty into academicky stuff. Bucknell’s reputation is more pre-professional–but those tend to be work hard/play hard types, so I don’t know if the working hard thing is escapable. Smart and ambitious college kids tend to work pretty hard at every college.

In the end I personally think William & Mary is sort of the obvious choice just because it is so strong for your current interests and ambitions, and I think its location, and actually its size, is a plus because it makes me more confident you will find the sorts of kids you want to hang out with, with suitable activities to match.

That said, it is quite a bit more expensive, and Bucknell is a college some people really love. I just see there being a bit more risk you might not love it as much as some.

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That’s are tough call since all are good schools but I don’t think taking out $80k of loans is worth it in general. A humanities major has to be even more careful but thats still not a wise idea even for STEM. It’s a lot of money and these are fundamentally similar schools.

You have great options that don’t require loans. I would pick W&M or Bucknell. Both are fairly remote and at Bucknell it’s true people do lean on the Greek system. You do have the town, but once you leave Williamsburg, there isn’t a whole lot around W&M either. I think you can find less competitive people at W&M and people who are less interested in Greek life at Bucknell.

I do think W&M is better regarded in PoliSci and better represented in DC. My son is on the Hill and he sees plenty of W&M interns and grads. For that reason, personally, I would give the nod to W&M.

Disclosure: I’m a Bucknell alum from way back in the day. My S24 went through the admissions process at W&M this year. Never been to Richmond but I think this is a $$$ decision anyway.

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Williamsburg is a little limited, but I note Newport News is like 25-30 minutes away (including with train service), and then Norfolk is another 30 minutes or so. Jamestown Beach is about 15 minutes away, Yorktown Beach 25 minutes, Virginia Beach about 1 hour.

Not necessarily the most important thing, but when my S24 was considering William & Mary the fact you could pretty easily do things in nearby cities and beach areas was appealing.

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If that is your real name, consider changing it to something more anonymous. You will probably need to message an administrator.

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My son is finishing up his freshman year at WM, and he is a very laid-back, non competitive type. He’s been extremely happy with his choice. His friends are very diverse and interesting. He’s involved with lots of on-campus activities. While DFAS is a really fun day, it’s not like the day to day atmosphere on campus. I’ve been on campus a lot and don’t feel like I’m seeing lots of alternative types. But there will be a nice variety of folks. Happy to have you message me if you have any questions I can help with.

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I am also a William & Mary mom. My son is finishing up his sophomore year and couldn’t be happier. He also came from a very small out of state private school (90 students in his graduating class) and initially thought he wanted a much smaller liberal arts college. He has found William & Mary to be the perfect size. His classes have all been relatively small - I think the largest has been about 35 students. His upper level classes have maxed out at about 25. Intro classes tend to be a little larger. Freshman seminars (your College 100 and 150 courses are capped at 15 or 16 students). While the academics are rigorous, I would not describe the school as “competitive”. Students are very collaborative and the professors care about their students and want them to succeed. I can honestly tell you that my son has never spent a Friday or Saturday night in the library and has a very active social life.

I will echo @lkbtnc’s comments above about DFAS. I can sort of understand how all the cheering at the admitted students day may have given you that impression, but William & Mary is not a rah-rah big time sports school. My older kid attended an SEC school and I can say that William & Mary football games, while fun, feel like a high school game in comparison. Last year Cam Newton was a regular fixture in the student section (cheering on his younger brother). My son commented that most of the nerds at William and Mary had no idea who he was. :joy:

As far as social life/partying, it is there for those who want it. Fraternity parties are generally open (except for mixers), many of the club sports also throw parties. My son is a member of a club sport and a fraternity. He parties more than I would like, but has maintained good grades as a physics major and econ minor. Williamsburg does not have any night life. There are three delis across from campus that have a bar scene on weekends, but I have heard that the local police have been seriously cracking down on fake IDs lately.

I’m happy to answer any other questions you have. The student body is nerdy and leans left politically, but they are a very friendly and welcoming group.

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First of all, I would scrap the idea of taking on debt for URichmond. It’s a fine school, and if you had a different financial profile, I could absolutely see it being your top choice in this situation. (For example, if you qualified for need-based aid that made it more affordable than the other two.) But I don’t see distinguishing qualities that make it above-and-beyond better than your other two choices, such that loans would make sense. I would narrow this decision down to W&M vs. Bucknell, for sure.

I feel as if W&M is getting dinged here in contradictory ways. It’s both too “rah-rah” and too nerdy, introverted, and “alternative?” Surely if both of those extremes are represented, there are plenty of regular people in the middle that you would fit in with just fine. And while I understand feeling wary of a larger school, 7K undergrads really isn’t that large.

So, the impression I’m left with is that you feel more comfortable with Bucknell, but you’re worried that, for a not-unmanageable price difference, you should take the opportunity to go to W&M even though you’re really not “feeling it.” Plus, you’re concerned that Bucknell could end up being “too much of a good thing” in the social scene department.

W&M is a great school that you shouldn’t hesitate to choose. Bucknell with Presidential Fellows sounds like a terrific opportunity too, and the cost savings would be a plus too. So this comes down to a “fit” issue.

When you spoke to the current Fellows, did you also ask them about their social experience? If you focused only on the Fellows experience when speaking with them, maybe you could hit them back up to discuss their impressions on the social side.

At any rate, only half of eligible students at Bucknell go Greek. But it may still be true that the social scene may feel more homogeneous there. That would be an argument in favor of a slightly bigger school, where there are more subcultures to choose from.

I don’t think anyone can tell you which would be better for you. Both, I think, are fairly balanced politically. There’s only so wrong you can go, so gather as much information as you can and trust your gut.

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URichmond has it’s strong points. I can’t speak on poli sci there, though.

You can apply for the Bonner Scholars program. They are currently taking applications.

Here’s the info my son received:

Do you want to join a network of students committed to community engagement and social change? Do you want to connect your skills and passions with the city of Richmond? Each year, 25 Bonner Scholars are selected to make a sustained commitment to community engagement, giving eight to ten hours a week to nonprofits, health clinics, schools, and government agencies.

Together, students explore their interests in social issues, and after their first year, they intern at one organization for the remainder of their undergraduate experience. In addition, Bonner Scholars participate in reflective conversations and educational programming to deepen their understanding of the Bonner Center for Civic Engagement’s learning outcomes, such as difference, power, social change, and active citizenship.

In exchange, Bonner Scholars earn:

  • Approximately $3,000, paid bi-weekly during the academic year
  • $9,000 for two 280-hour summer internships at nonprofits ($4,500 each)
  • Priority class registration
  • Mentorship from Bonner Scholars Program staff and community leaders, and
  • Membership in the Bonner Foundation national network, which includes 100 Bonner Scholars at the University of Richmond and thousands of alumni around the country.

The application will open on April 17, and the current deadline for submission is May 10, 2024. You may choose to submit a recommendation letter from someone who can speak to your civic engagement efforts.

If you have any questions about the program, please reach out to our staff using the below contact information. We are happy to connect with you. Thank you for considering this opportunity and we invite you to apply to the 2028 Bonner Scholars cohort

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I think William and Mary is great option.

Have you investigated their Washington DC campus options?

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IMO these are academic peers. Agree with taking out Richmond due to finances. Between W&M and Bucknell I’d go with your personal preference.

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Why is Bucknell the least rigorous? Because US News ranks them lower?

You have no idea about rigor - which will be different major to major and class to class.

First thing, no loans.

Then it’s about fit.

W&M and Bucknell share some traits but W&M is less isolated.

Either one would be great - where did you feel better?

Good luck.

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I know you aren’t claiming this, but for the benefit of the OP –

URichmond is the #25 LAC, Bucknell is the #30 LAC, and W&M is the #53 U.

I think W&M is better than that, but somehow the USNews formula update landed them there, probably about 20-25 spots lower than they should be.

So yeah, these three schools are, I think, appropriately described as reputational and – as far as we can tell – academic peers.

OP should not worry about prestige at all, and (rather) zero in on fit and cost.

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I’m just not a believer in “higher rank” or “perceived pedigree” is tied to what people think of rigor.

I don’t think anyone can claim which of those three is most rigorous - and a lot would depend on major, professor selection and more.

But everyone gets ideas in their head.

These are three fine schools - and there’s no wrong choice overall - although there may be a wrong choice for the OP.

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My intent wasn’t to discuss rigor. I only meant that as far as we know, these three should be seen as (overall) academic peers.

The OP can drill into their curricula and figure out which one best fits their goals and preferences.

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I get it - but OP seems to have come to a conclusion that many will or do even though they have no idea.

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OP: I think that you have a reasonable understanding of your options.

William & Mary is the best choice among your options if you are not into hard liquor & partying Bucknell style. Wm. & Mary academics are superior to the academic expectations & demands found at the other two schools. All are fine, but W&M is the best among the 3 options.

U Richmond is too expensive.

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You don’t mention where you live, but I would factor travel into the equation at least a little bit.
Bucknell was on my S24’s short list (and the other two were also). But after taking a connecting flight then getting a rental car and driving an hour, I felt it was a headache.
Bucknell to me is much more regional based than Richmond or W&M. We have kids from KY go to Richmond and W&M every year but Bucknell is not on anyone’s radar around here.
I think Richmond and W&M draw kids from north, south and midwest while Bucknell gets primarily north.

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So per their public student facts, it looks like Bucknell is usually around 20-25% PA, another 40-45% other Mid-Atlantic (mostly NY and NJ), and another 15-20% New England. Then the remaining 17% or so is fairly evenly drawn from the South, West, Interior, and Internationals (the latter appear to be about 4%).

William & Mary is automatically going to be much more state-focused as a public university, meaning 62% or so come from Virginia. I note as an aside if you dig into the detailed data available through the state, a lot of those come specifically from Northern Virginia, more so than at, for example, UVA.

It looks like another 17% or so, so around 45% of OOS, come from the Mid-Atlantic, but with more Maryland and NJ and less NY and PA (makes sense to me). It looks like 6% are International, and I’m not sure about the breakdown of the rest, although the rest of the top 10 states, after VA/NJ/MD/PA/NY, are NC, MA, CA, CT, and TX (DC is on that list as an 11th, actually just ahead of Texas).

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