Budget for elderly parent

Parent Cafe
1

MIL has just moved to our city. She lived very grandly for most of her life and continued to do so as her investments dwindled. She receives social security that will cover her rent and part of her utility costs. If she continues her prior rate of spending, she will be completely broke in about five months. She is 81 and her health is quite good.

DH and I will be responsible for supporting her when her money runs out. We live a very comfortable life but are fairly frugal, rarely traveling or dining out, driving old cars, and mindful of unnecessary expenses. MIL is already demonstrating an inability to modify her spending in her new setting, despite our pleas. DH and I are aligned in our concerns.

I’d be interested in knowing what you think would be a reasonable monthly budget (excluding rent and utilities) for an elderly parent in this situation. I realize that many factors come into play but am just looking for an approximation. A neighbor who cared for his mother in similar circumstances commented that MIL “should be able to live on $1,000 a month,” so maybe that’s a good starting point for discussion. Thanks for any input you can offer.

2

This does NOT include rent or any utilities?

What will she spend $1000 a month ON?

She needs money for food and toiletries, and a little bit of spending money. Maybe it’s me, but $1000 a month seems like a lot.

3

You are very good people to take on this responsibility, I am sorry it is necessary.

Do you know if she has any ongoing medical expenses, prescriptions, etc.? Those can add up. Will she have cable, be on your cell phone plan? Does she have credit cards? I guess as long as you and your DH are not on her cards her spending won’t be your problem.

4

If I were going to be paying the bills, the first thing that would happen is the credit cards would go. There is no reason for this person to run up debt. She doesn’t have the resources to do so.

I would set a budget that encompasses necessities first, and add to that some recreational spending money. Check her Medicare supplements to make sure they cover what they need to cover. Yes, prescriptions would be included, and that could increase her monthly allowance.

Her current rate of spending is unsustainable. Another reason to eliminate the credit cards. There is nothing wrong with living in a cash economy. Most bills can be paid online…by you.

5

You can’t just “get rid of the credit cards” for an elderly adult who is still responsible for their own affairs. I can’t imaging the hue and cry if I tried it with my parents, who are several years older than the OP’s MIL. If the MIL doesn’t want to change her spending habits, she would certainly not consent to this.

Have you tried showing her the information on her income, assets, and necessities (rent, utilities, groceries, transportation, medical expenses)? And showed her when her money will run out if she spends at her current rate?

Also, did she ever handle her own finances in the past? Or was there a FIL who handled investments, bills, etc. who has recently passed away? Some women that age (my mom will be one of them) are completely clueless about money and like it that way. That can be a really hard barrier to get through.

Good luck to you.

6

At that age, it really depends a lot on medical expenses.

I have a relative with very low income. She qualifies for rental assistance at a senior apartment complex. Each year her rent/utilities charge is calculated based on 30% of her prior year’s net income (after medical expenses - she does not earn enough to pay tax). She can have savings, but as she dips into it the formula is affected.

7

If this were me and she wanted me to fund her lifestyle, I think I would have to pay the bills myself directly, and no credit cards. I suppose I would even do the grocery shopping. I am a controlling person, I think, I could not just randomly hand over my hard earned money to some one who had proven themselves incapable of managing their own money. For example, if I agreed to give her $1000 and then all of a sudden she came to be with a credit card bill for another $5000 accumulated over the year, above and beyond the money I was giving her, yah, I would struggle with that!

8

Thanks for the comments so far. Yes, this is a stressful situation. MIL has avoided mental health professionals but her behaviors strongly point to narcissistic personality disorder, and I don’t just mean that she is self-centered. So it’s a tough situation. She will defiantly refuse to discuss things, and the sense of humility that most would have in this situation wouldn’t even occur to her, nor would it resonate if pointed out (We’ve tried.). As I type this, I am thinking that we may need to engage a counselor. However, I’d still appreciate feedback about the $1,000 budget.

To reply to some comments:

She would qualify for subsidized senior housing but “wouldn’t discuss it”. We found her a very spacious apartment (2 bedrooms, 2 baths) with a balcony, pretty view, and fireplace. We are ok with this nice, expensive place for now.

We are discussing taking away her credit cards, or at least everything but a Visa that we can monitor.

The $1,000 would be in addition to rent, all utilities, cell phone, internet, cable. We purchased her a (used) car.

Over the past three or four years since we learned of her financial picture, my DH has been struggling to get her to understand or to care about her financial predicament. He has tracked her spending on spreadsheets, sent her overviews that indicate when she will run out of money, made helpful suggestions, all to no effect. She just moved here from another state where she has resided for 81 years because she needs someone to help her and so we can try to get a handle on the spending (though that is our goal, not hers).

She has never lived with a budget or worried a bit about money. She married into wealth and that wealth sustained her until the past five or six years. (Her former husband is deceased.) She expects someone to rescue her.

MomofJandL, her spending will unfortunately be our problem because every dollar she spends today will be a dollar that we will have to spend in several months when she’s broke. We certainly won’t take out any credit cards with her, though!

We do need to get a handle on her medical spending. She has a vast array of prescriptions. Of course, any budget would need to adjust for the medical stuff, though we are also trying to get her to exercise some restraint. She tends to run to the doctor and the ER at the drop of a pin.

9

Is your husband the only child? If he has siblings, are they discussing possible strategy?

Is your MIL a good driver? Or would it be possible to take her car away to reduce her extravagant shopping (although that wouldn’t stop her from running up charges online).

No matter what advice you get here, it is going to be the most agonizing decision to actually move forward with a plan. MIL will not go quietly, and she will lash out at the two of you for ruining her life.

Thank goodness you and your spouse sound like you are in this together. That’s the only good part of this story.
Best wishes as you navigate this rough patch. It is honorable that you are trying your best to care for her.

10

powercropper, there are no siblings willing to assist in any way. She is an o.k. driver. You’re right about the lashing out. Thanks for the empathy.

11

I found with dealing with my kids, if I was ambivalent about an issue (is my son really ready for potty training?) it was easier for the child to manipulate the situation. But once I was confident in my decision (yes, he is physically ready, yes we are staying on top of this potty training schedule) I seemed to move forward and didn’t let the child’s whining and fussing deter me from the goal.

I suggest you find the line in the sand that you and your husband will defend. It could be before she spends her last dollar, but hopefully at least before she racks up thousands of dollars of credit card debt.

Is there anything you can do legally now? Has she granted anyone power of attorney over her affairs? You could try to have her found to be incompetent, but it would mean taking her to court and would be all kinds of awful for you.

We are in the midst of dealing with an elderly parent who lived alone long past when she was capable of taking proper care of herself. We regret that we didn’t cross the line sooner to get her the help she needed. But she was cranky and lashed out when we mentioned alternatives, and it caused less stress in the short term to let her continue living alone.

So I understand the position you are in, and send hugs your way as you figure out your next step.

12

Thanks, powercropper, for suggesting that we be firm. I don’t think she would be found incompetent, and we wouldn’t want to take that route. I agree about the line in the sand, which is why I’m hoping for feedback about what dollar amount is a reasonable budget. We would like to sit down soon and try to establish some boundaries.

Good luck to you as you continue to deal with your own elderly parent.

13

Ugh, such a painful predicament. So very sorry. If you are giving her money, it should be on your terms, not hers. I know- easier said than done. As for the budget-- are you in an expensive or inexpensive area? Can you set up direct pay for MD or prescription copays? What fixed expenses will come out of that $1000? Gas money/car repair? Food? If she plans to continue to spend $ on unaffordable manicures and opera tickets or dining out, then setting a budget will be challenging as she wont live within it anyway. Set what feels comfortable for you and stick to your guns. Good luck!

14

“We live a very comfortable life but are fairly frugal, rarely traveling or dining out, driving old cars, and mindful of unnecessary expenses.”

First, you should only give her what you can without harming your own financial well being. Second, would you be able to live on $1,000 a month budget excluding rent, all utilities, cell phone, internet, cable.? If you could do it than she should be able to also. There is no reason you should fund a more expensive lifestyle for her than your own. I would try and estimate what other expenses she has. If you are going to discuss an allowance with her and she is the type to want more… I would probably start out lower than $1,000 and let her “convince” you that she needs more.But make sure and only end up giving her the $1,000 or what ever you and your DH have already decided on. Good Luck!

15

$1,000 per month after mandatory expenses (rent, utilities, food, medical care) seems to be quite generous; she should be able to live quite comfortably. Remember, college students are expected to live on $1,000 to $1,500 per month including the mandatory expenses.

However, if she is a spending machine who is used to seemingly infinite wealth, any amount will likely be insufficient in her eyes. (And don’t be surprised if the utility bills are large, if she is accustomed to careless or wasteful use of utilities.)

16

I agree with your friend and ucb, $1000 should be more than enough for groceries, household incidentals, clothing, and $1000 should include car insurance and gas. The medical expenses are the big variable but if your husband has spreadsheets tracking her past expenses that is a great start.

17

Could your MIL have a pre-loaded credit or debit card and also give your financial durable power of attorney in exchange for his financial assistance? Could he put a credit freeze on her accounts so that she can’t apply for more credit and put a small credit limit on the one credit card she has (if it’s not a pre-loaded credit or debit card? These are realistically among the few ways from having future heartache in trying to reign her in if she decides she doesn’t want to live on whatever sum you and your H decide is tha max you can afford to help her with.

I recognize that the MIL may chaffe at these restrictions, but having her live in extreme poverty and pulling your H & you down with her will be extremely distasteful as well.

18

This sounds like a difficult situation. To me, $1000/month sounds totally reasonable - and generous. I agree with the other poster that perhaps starting a little lower than this, and then “giving in” to going to $1000 might be a good strategy.

My guess is that no matter what you are willing to give, it won’t be enough for your MIL.

So, it might be useful to start managing expectations now. You can say something to the effect that you’ve looked at your budget, and you are happy to say that you’ll be able to give her £750/month. Again, she might push back on this, and then you can go to $1000. But then you draw the line: you are not able to provide any more. If she racks debt, she will have to take care of it, because you simply can’t afford to.

19

I have trouble wrapping my mind about the question because for any of us, the answer depends on how much we have to spend. But, you’ve already afforded her luxuries she can’t afford such as a very nice apartment and a car. I see it as a slippery slope and feel that you will continue to be manipulated so that you give more. If you are being asked for rescue, it should be with legal papers naming your husband as the financial power of attorney and him controlling the finances. He would ideally only allow her to choose a lifestyle she can afford, including an affordable apartment. If she is not willing to agree to those terms, or is not asking for rescue, don’t get involved.

You might want to post in the parents caring for parents thread though I note many of the regulars have chimed in already.

20

Totally agree with #GTalum. So if “there are no siblings willing to assist in any way,” does there are no sibliings, period, or just no siblings that will get involved? If it’s the latter, why is that? Children of narcissists can be very damaged by the parent’s mental health issues. Is that why the sibs have distanced themselves? I see no good from the plan you have already implemented. Will you really be happy if this manipulative and selfish woman fritters away your savings? Why does your dh think he deserves that? Why is he so intent on still pleasing her? These are the questions I think should be explored with a counselor very soon.