<p>Yea…ok…I think Alexandre wins this argument. Wharton wins undergrad. Everywhere else is competing for second place, lol.</p>
<p>I actually don’t get why Sloan is ranked so high. This is based only on looking at the website and curriculum though, so I apologize if anyone is offended. My overall perception is that as a business program, it is extremely narrow and doesn’t have much to offer outside of tech/numbers driven subjects.</p>
<p>They only have 4 areas of concentration: Finance, Information Technologies, Marketing Science, and Operations Research. Compared to most business schools, isn’t 4 concentrations a really small number to choose from? I only know Wharton, and they have 18.</p>
<p>They don’t offer a lot of upper-level classes. If you look at their Finance concentration online, you only have 7 total classes to choose from, plus 2 that are required. Info Tech has 6-7 to choose from, plus 2 required. Marketing Science and Operations seem to be the only ones that give you some variety to choose from. Again I can only speak for Wharton, which is offering 13 Finance electives and 14 Marketing electives in just the Fall semester.</p>
<p>There is such a huge focus on science in their general requirements. For a typical MIT student this is fine, but I imagine that Sloan students don’t want to be engineers?
Two subjects in Calculus
Two subjects in Physics (Mechanics and Electromagnetism)
One subject in Chemistry
One subject in Biology
Two restrictive electives in Science and Technology*
One Institute Laboratory subject*
Eight subjects in the Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences (HASS subjects)**
Four Communication-Intensive subjects***
A physical education requirement </p>
<p>Also, from what I’ve been told if you’re not an Engineer at MIT, you’re looked down upon. Is Sloan is considered “easy” there so that students aren’t respected? </p>
<p>Again, I don’t know a whole lot about the specific program other than what is online. We all know the students are smart and the faculty are great, but is the program itself a good business program?</p>
<p>Also, I’m curious to know what other schools offer in terms of concentrations/majors and elective courses. You would think that something like that would be important to rankings, but of course they never mention that stuff.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>here’s how it is at McCombs at UT Austin, this is specifically for finance majors, once you pick finance as your major you also pick a track which is even more focused.</p>
<p>CORPORATE FINANCE and INVESTMENT BANKING TRACK: This track prepares students for careers as associates of corporate treasury departments, as financial analysts for corporations or investment banks, and as management consultants. Typical duties would include conducting analysis and providing recommendations on capital investments and financing alternatives; analysis of new marketing and product programs; generation and analysis of division and corporate performance measures; preparation and coordination of annual budgets and financial forecasts; analyzing and reporting on product and customer profitability; and, the analysis of acquisition candidates.</p>
<p>ACC 326 Financial AccountingIntermediate (required)
FIN 374C Financial Planning and Policy for Large Corporations (required)</p>
<p>3 hours of accounting from the following courses:
ACC 327 Financial Statement Analysis
ACC 329 Managerial Accounting and Control
ACC 362 Auditing and Control
ACC 364 Fundamentals of Taxation
6 hours of finance from the following courses:
FIN 366P Finance Practicum (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets
FIN 372 Advanced Topics in Finance
FIN 373.1 Advanced Studies in International Finance
FIN 376 International Finance
FIN 377.1 Advanced Portfolio Mgmt. & Investment Analysis, Theory & Application
FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management, may not count both)
FIN 377.3 Security Analysis (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 377.4 Financial Analysis
FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management, may not count both)</p>
<p>ENERGY FINANCE TRACK: This track prepares students for positions in project-financing, valuation, and risk management in the energy sector.</p>
<p>ACC 326 Financial AccountingIntermediate (required)
FIN 374C Financial Planning and Policy for Large Corporations (required)
FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Mgmt. (required)</p>
<p>6 hours of finance from the following courses:
FIN 366P Finance Practicum (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets
FIN 372 Advanced Topics in Finance
FIN 373.1 Advanced Studies in International Finance
FIN 374S Entrepreneurial Finance
FIN 375F Banking and Financial Intermediation
FIN 376 International Finance
FIN 377.1 Advanced Portfolio Mgmt. & Investment Analysis, Theory & Application
FIN 377.3 Security Analysis (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 377.4 Financial Analysis</p>
<p>INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT TRACK: This track provides students with a background suitable for starting positions as financial analysts with investment funds, investment banks or other financial institutions.</p>
<p>ACC 326 Financial AccountingIntermediate (required)
FIN 377.1 Advanced Portfolio Mgmt. & Investment Analysis, Theory & Application (required)</p>
<p>9 hours of finance from the following courses:
FIN 366P Finance Practicum (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets
FIN 372 Advanced Topics in Finance
FIN 373.1 Advanced Studies in International Finance
FIN 374C Financial Planning and Policy for Large Corporations
FIN 374S Entrepreneurial Finance
FIN 375F Banking and Financial Intermediation
FIN 376 International Finance
FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management, may not count both)
FIN 377.3 Security Analysis (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 377.4 Financial Analysis
FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management, may not count both)</p>
<p>FINANCIAL MARKETS/BANKING TRACK: This track prepares students for a variety of financial institution-related careers such as lending officers and financial analysts.</p>
<p>ACC 326 Financial AccountingIntermediate (required)
FIN 354 Money, Banking and Economic Conditions OR FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets (required)</p>
<p>9 hours of finance from the following courses:
FIN 354 Money, Banking and Economic Conditions
(if not used to fulfill requirement 1)
FIN 366P Finance Practicum (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets
(if not used to fulfill requirement 1)
FIN 372 Advanced Topics in Finance
FIN 373.1 Advanced Studies in International Finance
FIN 374C Financial Planning and Policy for Large Corporations
FIN 374S Entrepreneurial Finance
FIN 375F Banking and Financial Intermediation
FIN 376 International Finance
FIN 377.1 Advanced Portfolio Mgmt. & Investment Analysis, Theory & Application
FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management, may not count both)
FIN 377.3 Security Analysis (only available to students in FAP)
FIN 377.4 Financial Analysis
FIN 377.5 Energy Financial Risk Management
(or FIN 377.2 Financial Risk Management, may not count both)</p>
<p>REAL ESTATE TRACK: This track provides students with a broad background in valuing and managing real estate. This track is intended to prepare students for positions in real estate commercial brokerage and appraisal, mortgage banking, loan underwriting, real estate development and investment, and property management.</p>
<p>FIN 354 Money, Banking and Economic Conditions
OR FIN 371M Money and Capital Markets (required)
FIN 377.3 Security Analysis (only available to students in FAP)
OR FIN 377.4 Financial Analysis (required)
6 hours of real estate courses
3 hours of business electives
Only one independent study course may be counted toward the Real Estate track.</p>
<p>GENERAL FINANCE TRACK: This track is for students who do not wish to specialize in any area. However, given market and recruiting demands for specialization within the finance world, it is highly recommended that students select a track offering specialization in a particular area.</p>
<p>15 hours upper-division coursework in Finance, Real Estate, or Risk Management
Only one independent study course may be counted toward the General Finance track.</p>
<p>TMI…(= Too Much Info (learned that from The Office))</p>
<p>OK, so here’s what I did (This is what you do with crazy free time on your hands). These are the schools ranked by the averages of the BW and USNWR rankings. I don’t know what this may or may not mean. I took the Top 50 from BW and the Top 25 from USNWR and averaged their ranks. I would have taken the Top 50 from USNWR, but their list is too long and I’m just too lazy. Some schools had the same average so they both got the same rank. All in all, there’s 52 schools. USNWR had two schools (Washington, Arizona) in the Top 25, that BW did not have in their Top 50. So, I made the BW rank for these schools 51 and then took the average. I just did this, so check it out.</p>
<p>1 University of Pennsylvania
2 MIT
3 Michigan
4 UVA
5 NYU
6 Texas- Austin
7 UCB
8 UNC
9 Indiana
9 Carnegie Mellon
11 Emory
12 Notre Dame
13 Cornell
14 Washington University (Stl.)
15 USC
16 Illinois- Urbana-Champaign
17 Minnesota
18 Georgetown
18 Wisconsin
20 Brigham Young
21 Penn State
22 Michigan State
23 Boston College
24 Wake Forest
24 Babson
26 Southern Methodist
27 Purdue
28 Maryland
29 Ohio State University
30 Miami U- OH
30 TAMU (Texas A&M)
32 Arizona
33 Boston University
33 Georgia
35 Washington
35 Florida
37 Iowa
38 Bently
39 Syracuse
40 George Washington
41 Pittsburgh
42 Richmond
43 Northeastern
44 Baylor
45 Lehigh
46 Villanova
47 TCU (Texas Christian)
48 U of Miami- FL
49 Denver
50 Marquette
51 Fordham
52 James Madison</p>
<p>Pretty cool…Indiana #9 yaaaaa!</p>
<p>Yeah, that’s kinda funny. Indiana is ranked 11 by USNWR and 10 by BW, but when you take the averages, it goes up to 9.</p>
<p>uhhhh nnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</p>
<p>^ word to that.</p>
<p>This actually looks quite good. I know that averaging the BW and USNWR MBA polls gives a more accurate final result. I think it would be wise to wait for the next issue of the BU undergraduate B-school rankings because the improvements between the first and second attempt are always the most significant.</p>
<p>Alexandre likes Michigan at #3 by itself, only behind MIT and Penn :D</p>
<p>true, as long as Michigan is on top</p>
<p>Actually, I think Ross should be #2, but that is a personal opinion based on what I think B schools should be like. The truth of the matter is, there isn’t a difference between #2 and #5 or #6.</p>
<p>ALexandre, you mind clarifying what you think business schools should be like?</p>
<p>that combined ranking looks really good to me. Nothing is like woah, everything is basically comparable 3 up and 3 down.</p>
<p>Only thing is maybe the index rankings on BW and the peer assessment rankings could be compared and combined some way because the index ranking on BW are just so darn close in the middle. I mean look at 33-40, all have an index rating of 59-60. These 8 schools are seperated by that many spots but only one point, but then look at 40(GA) and 41(GW) you see that there are 5 index points seperating them. Surely there is a bigger difference between Georgtia Athens(40) and GW(41) with a 5 point differential than there is between Georgia athens(40) and Iowa(39) that have the same amount of total points. </p>
<p>The best way I see how to do this is to multiply the peer assessment rating by USnews by 20 to put it on a 100 point scale just like the BW ranking and add them together. At first glance it seems to give the rankings a few extra points. For example at 18 with a 3.8 ranking on USnews multiplied by 20 is a 76 but a 18 on BW corresponds to a 71. It is just 5 points so maybe it wouldn’t be all that bad but at 22 there is a 7 point difference. It isn’t entirely in favor of adding more credit to USNEws as 3rd in US news is a 4.5 and multiplied by 20 that would be a 90 and in BW 3rd is a 97 so that would place more emphasis on BW there. But what takes away from this problem is the fact that we can assume that they are the repective opinions of both rankings. It would have more conclusive rankings incorporating the true differences that BW saw as it has more differences in value. This would make for a SUPER RANKING.</p>
<p>All this would do is be slightly more accurate using the true index numbers instead of rankings because of the similarity b/w a few schools ranked far apart in BW and the bigger differences by schools ranked closer. As seen at 33-40 and 41 on BW. It would be using the ranking to its potential as they offered the points on the side. </p>
<p>maybe someday someone will do it. Maybe i will if i have sometime soon.</p>
<p>Legionaire, to me, and try to remember I stress this is merely my personal opinion, a top B school should have certain characteristics:</p>
<p>1) It should be very strong in all major Business disciplines (accounting, finance, management, marketing and production), </p>
<p>2) Have a very cohesive alumni network that is spreadout and loyal to the program</p>
<p>3) Be highly regarded and heavily recruited accross multiple industries (manufacturing, biotech, retail, banking, consulting etc…) </p>
<p>4) Provide a great overall experience, both social and academic</p>
<p>5) Be part of a larger elite university that is highly regarded</p>
<p>Good list, Alexandre</p>
<p>very true, Alexander</p>
<p>First, my apologies for coming late to this discussion (I have two businesses to run more on that later)
…but I just cannot resist responding to the apparent shock and horror of Miami U being ranking at 17 on BWs list.</p>
<p>I am a graduate of Miami’s school of business so I will state my bias up front. However, my bias is backed up with facts about the results that my fellow graduates and I have gotten from our degrees. After all, why do you want to attend a top business school? Isn’t it to get that great business career?</p>
<p>So note these facts:
+On the BW survey RECRUITERS (ah folks, THOSE people’s opinions are the ones that really matter) ranked Miami #3
+400 corporate recruiters to campus each year - The Fortune 500 and Big Five accounting firms are well represented in this group (this does not count the companies that conduct interviews solicited by students for off-campus interviews)
+More than 92 percent of Miami business students secure employment within months of graduation (every one of my business school friends had more than one job offer BEFORE graduation I had two OUTSTANDING ones by Christmas senior year and so did my roommate, all four were from Fortune 500 companies)
+Five percent continue with graduate education.
+Recent Miami graduates have gone to work for companies such as Banc One, Baxter International, CINergy, General Electric, the Kroger Company, National City Bank, Procter & Gamble, and Sherwin-Williams
+Sampling of Alumni who have made it to the top of the business field (CEOs & Presidents):
Brad Alford '78 Chairman and CEO of Nestlé USA
C. Michael Armstrong '61 Former chairman and CEO of AT&T and former chairman of Comcast Corp.<br>
Se Yung Chung MA '57 Former president of the Hyundai Motor Company
Richard T. Farmer '56 Chairman of the board of Cintas Corp.
Cynthia Fedus Fields '71 Former president and CEO of Victoria’s Secret Catalogue Division in New York<br>
Charles Mechem, Jr. '52 Retired chairman and CEO of Jacor Communications and former commissioner of the LPGA<br>
Marvin Pierce '16 Former president of McCall Publishing Corporation
Jack Rogers '57 Retired chairman and CEO of United Parcel Service (UPS)<br>
Robert Schneider '64 President and CEO of Patio Enclosures, Inc.<br>
John Smale '49 Former chairman and CEO of Procter & Gamble and retired chairman of the executive committee of General Motors
Richard Smucker '70 President of Smucker’s brand foods
Thomas Stallkamp '68 CEO of MSX International and former president of Daimler Chrysler
Me (Believersmom) '84 Owner and manager of two businesses and several real estate investments. (I know I could not have accomplished this without the knowledge and experience gained from Miami’s school of business since I did NOT come from a successful or wealthy background)
+The rest of the university is strong as well <a href=“Rankings and Recognition | Miami University”>Rankings and Recognition | Miami University; As someone who lives and functions in the “real world” (and I don’t mean the MTV show), I am telling you that you need more from your college experience than just your school of major.
+The university itself is continuing to improve, and the School of Business is key in this plan:
<a href=“http://www.miami.muohio.edu/provost/reports/firstin2009.pdf[/url]”>Academic Affairs - Miami University;
<a href=“http://www.forloveandhonor.org/[/url]”>http://www.forloveandhonor.org/</a>
<a href=“http://www.forloveandhonor.org/projects/[/url]”>http://www.forloveandhonor.org/projects/</a></p>
<p>Okay, that’s my $5 worth. Make up your own mind about what you think is the best school (gets you in the habit of thinking for yourself - great business skill) but make sure you do your due diligence and compare apples to apples.</p>