Son is taking pre-calc Honors with difficult teacher and not enjoying a bit. The same teacher will teach BC next year. Would it be better move down to reg. pre calc, and then to go with easier class and teacher for AB next year, or would that hurt chances for serious science schools/programs like USC, cal tech, etc…? Also, is physics AP more important than Chem Honors. This will all be in 11th grade.
thank you.
To answer your specific questions
- Reducing the rigor in math will certainly hurt chances for the most selective serious science schools/programs.
- He will need to have taken physics and chemistry and have taken the SAT II in one of those. It might not be a bad strategy to take AP Physics as a junior to record a good AP score and get a very high SAT II in physics and save Chemistry until 12th grade.
To question the basis for your question. If the goal is to go into serious hard science or engineering, the math must be mastered. One way to do that is to get a tutor and stick it out with the fastest track regardless of pain. The other approach would be to drop down to a slower track, but really master the material at a pace that is digestible. I think this is often a better approach for some.
This decision should be based on the emotional and intellectual makeup of your son and not be based on college admissions. People learn in different ways at different paces. Spend too long being miserable and all of the love for the subject is lost. IMHO, that’s counterproductive.
There are great colleges for every student. There are colleges like WPI and RIT which are good matches for students who will be broken by the pace of BC Calculus but produce very successful graduates. I’m sure there are similar schools on the west coast too.
Good luck.
Thank you for your reply. I do think that the pace of pre-calc Honors has been overwhelming, he has always said he loved math, and the challenge until now. It’s interesting, his teacher and tutor say he understands it, loves the problem solving aspect but hates to go to fast. My concern is that BC would go even faster…but that backing out of it might eliminate certain college chances right then and there. (cal tech and H. mudd seemed to indicate it would stand out as not good) To focus on his comfort now, vs. college feels like a big decision. Do you think that a higher grade in an “easier” course is better, (like an A), rather than a B or even B- in Honors or BC? I know it seems like we are overly concerned, but he has wanted to be a structural engineer /physics student for literally his whole life. The school wants to know now to plan (it’s a small school). I don’t want to mis-guide him. His father and I are comedy writers, and can’t help him with any math at all! 
You are right about counterproductive…he came home this year, and said, “Maybe I am not smart enough to be an engineer!” 1 teacher/course did this to him …they are so young!
OH, what are WPI and RIT? thank you
WPI = Worcester polytechnic Institute
RIP = Rochester Institute of Technology ( I would guess)
Also consider RPI = Rensellear polytechnic institute
I also think not taking the most rigorous math class offered at your school may be a hindrance when applying to the very tip top schools.
OK, thank you. Lots to think about. what is your feeling on physics AP in 11th grade vs. Honors chem, when he is taking physics honors right now as a 10th grader. His love is physics, not chem…but would that be too much with BC? (he will tak ap english/history, but those will not challenge him so much as take time) and do a year long research mentorship at UCSB through the 2 year stem program…thanks again, johanna.
oh, again, is a B or B+ in BC better than an A in AB for sceince colleges? and/or usc typs with strong programs?
It does not matter when he takes chem, so long as he takes it at some point.
Obviously an A in BC is preferred, particularly since most applicants to these top STEM schools will have an A. At the end of the day, if he is rejected for a B+, out is highly unlikely that he would have been accepted with an A.
He’s a sophomore. If he takes AB junior year , he can still qualify for Caltech etc. by taking calculus 2-3 at a local community college senior year.
AB junior year plus another calculus class senior year will be excellent for USC , RPI, etc.
Also, he doesn’t need to attend Caltech to become an engineer. Caltech is very particular in what it expects from it’d applicants but it’s atypical.
He needs to take all three of biology, chemistry, and physics honors. Physics honors can be replaced by AP physics 1. Then, AP Physics C would be recommended.
Thank you. The only reason he took physics honors this year and not chem honors with his 10th grade classmates, is that it wouldn’t fit into his schedule. He is at a really small school (42 sophomores). He WANTS to take AP physics next year, and not chem, but is that a repeat of this year? Chem is a necessity for him, but not a love. The 1 college counselor seemed to indicate that NOT taking BC in 11th and stretching it out ie: AB in 11th, and BC in 12th would automatically eliminate the true science Caltech/MIT/Mudd from his potential college choices! I am a comedy writer, so that sounds like a joke to me…but what do I know? That’s why I am here asking I don’t need him to go to a top top tippy top caltech, but I don’t want to eliminate the possibility with one course choice! we live in the central coast of CA, so caltech and mudd are “close” and family is everything… They said if he is only doing AB next year, he should move down from precalc H to reg next semester too! That looks bad! Is a B+ so bad in precalc H? really is it that tough. This kid is a multi-faceted, kind, smart, driven boy! I don’t remember it being this competitive…my father was dean of engineering at ucla/berkeley for a while…nearly 50 years combined…I remember hanging out summers in the engineering building/sitting in on classes and Phd exams…they were smart for sure, but couldn’t talk much socially…it was a fun way to grow up on trips with genius professors arguing about how to roast a marshmellow or hang a door…that must be where my son gets it!
He needs to take Honors Chem next year then, and AP Physics C senior year (after a year of calc - AP Physics C is calc-based).
He doesn’t need to drop down from Precalculus Honors if he’s getting a B or higher.
Taking Calc AB junior year, BC senior year is fine for all colleges, although CalTech and Mudd* would see that as “minimal”… BUT… you live in a densely populated area of CA, meaning you have good community colleges within driving distance. He can take Calc AB junior year, then as I said take Calc 2+3 senior year, and be ahead compared to students who took BC (BC = calc 2). He could take Linear Algebra or Discrete Math summer after junior year, as those don’t require either Calc BC or Calc 2, and it’d beef up his math skills and course list.
In short, taking Calc AB as a junior doesn’t preclue anything, as long as 1° your son gets an A and 2° he keeps going with math classes.
*All other colleges, including Harvard and Stanford, would be absolutely okay with AB-BC course rigor! But was said upthread, CalTech and Mudd are different animals, they’re the only two universities in the US where a calculus class is the MINIMAL qualification (unlike other universities, where it’s typically precalculus for the very selective universities, and algebra2 for minimally-selective universities).
Mudd requires calculus, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s AB or BC. FWIW- My son took AB as a senior. He was admitted to Mudd and is thriving there. ( On the other hand, BC wasn’t offered at his HS.)
thank you for all of the feedback! We must make a decision by the end of next week…they have to plan for next year.
Also as a parent I would let go of the “top schools or bust” mentality.
You should find a school that will fit your child, not make your child fit the school.
I would even say if you have to ask, MIT is not for your child (AND THAT IS OK)
All ABET accredited Engineering schools are good and he will find a good job.
Thank you. I really don’t have that mentality in general. I think the pressure is on at his school, within himself, and also I will admit that I do not want to steer him in a direction that is “easiest for now,” if it cancels choices for later weather Top Top or not. This is a different game then when I went to college, or at least it feels like it…