My best friend from high school went to Kenyon for the same reasons—wanting a break from the hyper competitiveness yet still being around like minded (academically speaking, as smart as she is) people. Though, I could never see her anywhere but a very small and rigorous LAC.
Maybe that’s the problem. California kids assume UC fit when there isn’t one out of desire for prestige/fear/etc.
I’ve read the last 10 pages of this and the hype about top UCs reminds me of “Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.” CA has a ton of great schools–lower tier UCs and CAL states are better schools than most out of state (AZ, U of O, Utah all have acceptance rates of 70%+). There are so many Cal States and low/mid UCs with higher academic standards and in-state tuition is 5-15k-ish…It is snobbery and pride, not academics, that are sending kids out of state.
I don’t know about snobbery and pride. I think one of the big reasons students don’t choose many of the Cal States is that students want a vibrant resident college community. A few of the Cal States provide that but many are more commuter colleges. Some of the larger publics outside of California provide that total residential college experience that is missing at many California schools that have very solid academics.
The CSUs have a lot of issues beyond acceptance rates, and I think that size plays a big role too. Also include that many lack football teams etc and it can be a turn off for a lot of students.
Not saying those are vital to any college experience, but it’s what the kids want.
CSUs are considered some of the better public schools nationally and am not sure if any issues (what issues-that UCs don’t have) cannot be overcome by the excellent tuition price tag 5-10k. Cal states are becoming much more residential and are attracting as many apps as some of the UCs (100K), but still get a bad rap compared to the UCs (IMO, if many were in other states they would be flagships).
@1andonly…agree that all UC’s and the “top” CSU’s are equivalent or better academically than those OOS locations you mentioned…snobbery & pride a factor.
@19parent…vibrant college non commuter enclaves, great locations, solid sports teams, and social scenes definitely override solid academics alone for many.
In fact, it is Cal States not UCs which require freshman to live on campus (local residents can opt for waiver at both).
Re: #986 I worked at a CSU for years, and there was never a requirement for freshman to live on campus, even if they weren’t from the local area. I checked online with this particular CSU, and I still see no mention of that requirement. At another CSU, Chico, the freshman are encouraged to live on campus, but there is still no such requirement. Those are the only two CSU’s that I’m pretty familiar with.
@SaSmith LOL at that kid who is going to WF. First of all very very few Caucasians live in Fremont, well at least not in the good schools, and secondly it sounds like he got rejected from the UCs.
San Diego State now has a 2 year on-campus living requirement for all in-coming Freshman outside the local service area. You can still apply for an off-campus living exemption but they are not always granted.
This living on/off campus is related to this thread how?
BTW in ref to the earlier discussion on diversity at CU vs UCB. Its interesting to note that UCB breaks down its Asian number to individual countries, curious as to why? The total for Asian (for direct comparison) is 41.8% at UCB.
University of Colorado
Asian 5.5%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander 0.1%
Black/African American 1.6%
Hispanic/Latino 11.2%
American Indian/Alaska Native 0.2%
More than one race 5.0%
White/Unknown 69.3%
International 7.1%
University of California - Berkeley
African American/Black 2.9%
Mexican American/Chicano 9.9%
Other Hispanic/Latino 3.7%
Native American/Alaska Native 0.4%
Pacific Islander 0.2%
Chinese 18.6%
Filipino 3.2%
Japanese 1.5%
Korean 4.6%
Other Asian 1.1%
South Asian10.4%
Vietnamese 2.8%
White 24.5%
Decline to State 4.7%
International 11.6%
Now a comparison by state population
Colorado
White 82.8%
Black or African American 3.8%
American Indian and Alaska Native 1.0%
Asian 2.2%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 0.1%
California
72.9% White (Hispanic included here)
6.5% Black or African American,
14.7% Asian,
1.7% Native Americans,
0.5% Pacific Islander
3.8% from two or more races
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fremontcitycalifornia/PST045216 says 22.3% white (not Hispanic or Latino). That is “very few”?
It does look like there is “white flight” going on. The white (not Hispanic or Latino) population was 41.4% in 2000 and 26.5% in 2010.
Probably because the numbers are large enough, and the difference between different ethnic origins can be of interest in some contexts.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CO,CA/PST045217 indicates:
Colorado (other numbers are slightly different from the above):
White (not Hispanic or Latino) 68.6%
Hispanic or Latino 21.3%
California:
White (not Hispanic or Latino) 37.7%
Hispanic or Latino 38.8%
@ucbalumnus at the top public HS in Fremont, Mission San Jose, the Caucasian population is 5%. The other high ranking ones, Irvington and American, are at 15%. Mission San Jose had 90 NMSFs this year and Irvington had 48, while American had 27. You’d be hard-pressed to find any Caucasian names on the lists.
Probably because there are not that many people of Armenian, Azeri, Georgian, Chechen, etc. ancestry in the US.
The really high performing schools in Fremont, and Cupertino for that matter, has a student body that are primarily consisting of India Indian and Chinese (China, Taiwan, HK, Singapore, Malaysia) ethnicities. In the case of MSJHS, over 90%.
CU123 to answer your question - Living on/off campus and a vibrant residential life is definitely a deal breaker to many students. My daughter has visited several California campuses on the weekend for sports, music, and science fairs and found them void of any activity. They would never be on any list of colleges she would consider. Even if there is a living requirement, if a campus has a reputation of being a commuter campus, it is a huge turn off to many students, and righty so. While those campuses might be cheaper, it isn’t cheap if the student comes homes, doesn’t engage and possibly drops out. That is why students look to OOS schools if they don’t get into a UC or 4-5 of the Cal States that provide that experience.
The ethnicity is an accident of immigration patterns. Specifically, that those areas happened to attract people who are highly skilled labor (often in the computer industry), often those who came to the US initially on PhD student visas. China and India happen to be rather big countries, so they were big sources of such immigrants. Educational attainment tends to transmit well across generations (whether you see it as nature, nurture, or both), so the result is not surprising.
The fact that most people think in terms of race and ethnicity first means that similar educational patterns among European and African immigrants who originally came as PhD students or skilled workers go unnoticed, because they look superficially similar to the much larger number of European and African Americans not of recent immigrant heritage.