Class sizes do get smaller at upper levels. You may want to investigate the size of upper level math courses at UT Austin and other large universities. Lower level math courses can be huge due to them being shared by other majors, although honors courses can be considerably smaller (e.g. https://www.ma.utexas.edu/academics/undergraduate/honors-track#programs-for-first-year-students ).
At smaller colleges, you may want to investigate the breadth and depth of upper level math offerings, since some smaller colleges have small math departments with relatively limited offerings.
UT Austin has one of the best math programs in the country, and he’ll be sure to find his crowd there. I wouldn’t pay a lot more just so he can go to a smaller school. But if he’ll have financial aid, then Williams, Carleton, Swarthmore, Pomona, Grinnell are all good for math, only they may not be easier to get into than Rice.
@mathymom4 As the mom of an unapologetic quirky nerd/geek, I would give you the college search advice of don’t go in with pre-conceived notions; you never know where he will find his “people.” Believe me; I get it. D20 is super STEM girl, robotics club president, math tutor through BC, etc. Our house is the gathering place for playing D&D and watching Doctor Who marathons. Guess where she found her “people:” a large southern state school known for college football and greek life. She could care less about either, but what she did find is a great honors college with amazing opportunities, great advisors and smaller class sizes. She’s taking a class this fall about the history of diversity inclusion in comic books; seriously, it’s her idea of a dream class. She’s finishing up a summer research program for incoming freshmen where she quickly found her “people,” a group of wonderfully fun and quirky kids just as excited to learn, a group that will push and support her for the next 4 years. She found a school with collaborative research instead of competitive, the opposite of the vibe got at other schools she considered. I know this is a long winded response, but point being you just never know. P.S. D20s BFF found her “people” at TAMU, and is starting in a couple weeks. She’s the Loki to D20s Thor, so there must be some quirky, nerdy/geeky kids there. I’m sure D20, her BFF and their new friend groups will probably stand out in their fandom graphic tees at their respective schools. They’re o.k. with that; I’m sure it will be like a “bat signal” for others like them.
This. As true as it gets. Also, college is not HS! UT-A is a super choice academically, and I know some recent UT-A grads who are definitely solidly in the nerdy/quirky camp and had a very happy experience. Sometimes the best option really is the girl next door!
@mathymom4 I can identify with your DS a lot! He should check out TCU! The Honors College is full of hard workers, but we know how to have fun together. He might qualify for some nice scholarships, too, being a valedictorian. I love the Math Department here as well. If you’d like, let me know if you want me to DM you more specific info about the department and school experience!
With respect to your son’s primary academic interest, consider schools included in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great Schools for Mathematics Majors,” such as Harvey Mudd, MIT, UChicago, Caltech, Pomona, Haverford, Amherst, Hamilton, Williams, Bowdoin, Reed, Carleton, Harvard, Brown, Grinnell, CMU, URochester and St. Olaf.
Definitely all hard to get into. We like to be realistic about that because some are high reaches for ANYONE! UT is definitely an excellent program and would be a great choice.
thanks Tigerwife92 for the long reply. I actually love it. Your kid sounds awesome. I also appreciate hearing that it’s quite possible to find your niche at the large schools too. Makes me feel better.
@mathymom4, I would suggest your son look at Williams’ superb math department (large for an LAC). Plus “hardworking students that like to engage in stimulating conversations and take their work seriously but also know how to have fun.” Like many LACs, Williams is known for small classes, nurturing faculty relationships and excellent career and graduate school mentoring.
For an indication of the popularity of math programs you can access IPEDS. Bowdoin reports 34 math “first majors” for a recent year, Grinnell 25. In making comparisons across schools of varying sizes, consider these figures in relation to the totals for all majors (472 and 403, respectively, in the cases of Bowdoin and Grinnell).
DD2 was nerdy and majored in math in college. She was only interested in smaller schools. Her #1 choice was Carleton but she was waitlisted. She attended Lewis and Clark in OR and loved it. She still corresponds with her advisor 7 years after graduating.
The Honors College at many state flagships would be a great choice, especially at colleges with an honors math sequence. Those are very self selecting (and therefore almost always small) courses. As an example my D took Honors Calc 3 (which required a 5 in Calc BC to qualify) her first semester and it had only 17 students. And you have the advantage of choosing from a much wider variety of upper division courses.
@mathymom4 Lots of great suggestions above. If you in the category of families that need to seek out merit-based aid, of schools already mentioned, I can particularly recommend Case Western, St Olaf, and Rochester. At the first two, merit awards can approach 50% of total cost of admission, not sure about Rochester’s amounts.
If he’s partial to LACs, perhaps Reed or Oberlin? They are very politically liberal but serious students and nerds abound! Akin to Swarthmore, which would also be excellent academically Of these three, Oberlin has merit awards of up to around 30K, the other two are need-based only. These student populations are distinct enough that a campus visit is highly recommended. Not likely during the pandemic but there are other ways to dive deeply into a school that has a distinct flavor.
I agree. Carleton was the first school that came to mind when I read your opening post. Grinnell too. S19 applied to and was accepted to both. Really smart, down to earth and fun kids. Not super sporty campuses so, for small schools, the overall vibe is right up for S’s alley.
Bowdoin’s math department is strong as well. He’s been supported very well by his professors and enjoyed his small classes. He took Multivariable senior year and Bowdoin doesn’t suggest kids at that level re-take any calc so started in Linear Algebra. It was a grind and really hard. He was one of three freshmen in the class. He had multiple small study groups and they totally supported each other. Went to office hours every single week and the prof was great. Ended up doing well in the class but said it was the hardest he’s ever had to work. They also have math “lunches” in the cafeteria once a week or so where professors talk about “fun” stuff happening in the math world. He went quite a bit and thought it was light-hearted and fun and a good way to get to know other professors and students.
I started as an engineering major at Northwestern and was totally weeded out after taking math and chem freshman year. I tried to ask for help but didn’t feel all that supported. (Obviously this was 100 years ago. Lol.) I knew that, if S wanted anything STEM, I wanted him to consider smaller schools. Luckily, he liked that idea. At Bowdoin, I really doubt that anyone is left to fail in math and science. If you want to do it, you will succeed. I’m sure it’s the same at many LACs.
After the first month of school, S19’s math prof sent the kids some article about how hard math is and how so many kids drop it as a major but it was a positive article talking about how anyone can be a math major if they want it enough. There were stories of undergrads who struggled but kept at it and now love it. I thought that was inspiring for the freshmen considering math and very supportive of this prof to share it with them.
Also, remember that “math” is different than Calc. Lots of students really like Calc and then end up not liking a math major. It can be more theoretical. Both of the classes S19 took his freshman year were nothing like Calc. They were mostly proofs. He finds he gets to use the Calc he enjoys more in Physics and will likely double major.