Calling on experienced dog parents

Parent Cafe
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<p>Help! Recently we rescued a one year old beagle. She had been given to the local humane society by an older couple that claimed they could not keep up with her. She is a friendly, playful, cuddly pooch. Additionally, she is tiny so she makes a great lapdog. She is a great dog to take on long walks. Thus, everyone in the household has fallen in love with her.</p>

<p>The problem is house training. We were told it was difficult for the older couple to walk her over winter so they trained her to go on wee wee pads in the house. So they recommended letting her do this and then moving the pads outside. We have done this and she started eliminating outside but continues to do so inside. Worse, she eliminates in her crate and gets herself soiled, which we were told dogs don’t do unless they were bred in a dirty mill or pet shop. She does not even seem to care about getting dirty or getting her food bowl dirty. </p>

<p>She is in her crate overnight and when we go out. We all work but I work at home a couple of days a week and my D is home afterschool at least three days a week. Therefore, she is crated during the day an average of 5 hours a day. However, it does not seem to matter if it is an hour or 5. Sometimes, she is fine overnight and sometimes she has an accident within an hour. We feed her in her crate at night around 6:30, put her outside and crate her for the night around 10:30. Then in the a.m., she is given a small snack (medium milkbone). </p>

<p>Looking through all her paper work, I saw the previous owners brought her from a pet store that purchased puppies from a breeder that had been found to run a dirty mill. It answered my question why these people paid thousands of dollars in purchase, vaccination and spaying bills for this dog and they gave her away in less than a year. </p>

<p>So what do we do now? The advice from the humane society has not worked. We have another older dog and we thought she would learn from him so we put them out at the same time and while she did learn to go outside, it does not keep her from going inside. She has her own crate now because she was soiling the other dog.
The vet said that we would have to keep an eye on her at all times even if it means tying the leash to our belt or the kitchen cabinets if we are in there. This seems insane. We have had three other dogs during the past 25 years and never had to do this. </p>

<p>Our kennel person, who watches our dogs, when we go on vacation has also bred dogs and she confirmed that if the dog came from a bad mill, it would be almost impossible to break this. She recommended putting her in a cat crate overnight, which she fits, so she cannot move around much.That seems awful to do forever. </p>

<p>Any advice that has worked for you, would be so appreciated.</p>

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<p>My first thought is how much room does she have in her crate?</p>

<p>If she can do more than stand and turn around you need to make the crate smaller. You can slip a large piece of cardboard in between the slots or buy a smaller crate. </p>

<p>That’s where I would start.</p>

<p>Immediately take her outside and state " get busy" and when she goes immediately reward her. Keep her a bit hungry so the treat matters.</p>

<p>Good luck. Dogs like routine and it will become routine quickly if you are extremely consistent. </p>

<p>Good luck! I hope it’s not a physical problem. That’s a different problem.</p>

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<p>I have a suggestion that may or may not work depending on the arrangement in your home.
We had a small dog while I was growing up that stayed in the laundry room while we were gone or at school, uncrated. She had a soft bed, her food and water, and newspapers on the floor that she used regularly. It really worked for us, as she had enough room to move around, drink ( I wouldn’t leave a dog five-six hours without water) and relieve herself in the one acceptable spot. The laundry room floor was linoleum, so no real problem cleaning if the newspapers didn’t catch everything. She only was closed in the laundry room when we left the house, but the papers stayed down in a corner when we were home as well. If we walked her regularly she would go outside, but if she did have to go and we were not diligent at home, she would go to the laundry room to the papers to do her business. She learned quickly that this was the one place in the house that was OK for that.
This isn’t an ideal situation for a dog, but for one with a working family gone long hours, it’s preferable to being in a crate all the time, imo.</p>

<p>Before I try too many new “routines”, however, I would hire a trainer. Find a good one in your area through word of mouth. She is young enough to learn new habits, but they need to be appropriate and consistently reinforced. I don’t believe that a one year old dog can’t unlearn dirty potty habits, even if they were from a bad kennel.</p>

<p>Good luck. Thank you for adopting.</p>

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<p>Has she been checked by a vet for urinary tract infections and such? Rule out a physical problem first.
After that, the other advice you have is good. You need to be persistent, and patient. Put her on a schedule and keep a sharp eye on her. She will learn eventually. Also use a good cleaner (we use Natures Miracle) to eliminate odors in the house where she’s had accidents.
Good luck. Sounds like her life is better with you. :-)</p>

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<p>I would have her checked by a vet first to see if there is any physical problem that is causing/aggravating this problem. If not, then I second the recommendation of a trainer. Usually, these issues require continued and consistent establishment of a system. Take her out every hour, praise her and reward her when she does go. After it works for a few days for each hour, then extend it to two hours, etc. I do not believe that a year old pup is a lost cause and cannot change established habits. I think your kennel person is mistaken. </p>

<p>I would not put her in a cat crate, a small dog crate should be fine. I’m not sure why you’re feeding her in her crate, though. I’ve never heard of that and have never done that with any of our dogs. I also think that five hours in a crate after a dog has been crated all night is too much.</p>

<p>I wish you luck. Problems like this can be very frustrating. Rescuing a dog is a wonderful thing to do but it often comes with challenges.</p>

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<p>We were always told that beagles were slow to train because they can be very stubborn. That has been true for ours. It might take some time.
Good luck to you and glad to hear that you adopted.</p>

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<p>I had also heard that dogs don’t go in their crates, so that was a new one for me! I found this article that may help:<a href=“What To Do if Fido Has Accidents in his Crate - The Housebreaking Bible”>http://thehousebreakingbible.com/training/crate-accidents.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>We also recently got a rescue dog and thought quite a bit about crating. We didn’t have a crate and didn’t really want to get one. We put our old dog in the laundry room that’s gated off and decided to do that with our new one. Our problems have been chewing. So far, she’s eaten the straps off two leather sandals and took a hunk out of the fringe on a small rug. So far, everything seems to be going through okay. I have learned to leave no shoes accessible! </p>

<p>Good luck on house training!</p>

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<p>Is there a fenced-in yard so a pet door can be installed and she can go out whenever she needs to? </p>

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<p>My in laws prior older dog began having accidents in two spots on their indoor carpet. After she died they bought a new puppy & being 80-90 they did not have the stamina or energy to make the effort to take her out all the time, therefore she never really became house broken and especially liked the places the old dog used. That puppy was killed (sad) and they then rescued a middle aged dog who was supposedly house broken, once again, they did not have the energy to train him to their house & he goes in the spots where the old dogs went.</p>

<p>We have house trained two dogs in the last few years, in each case it seemed like it was 6-8 weeks before we were certain they were trained and could be trusted. If your dog has to unlearn a bad habit it may take even longer. Perhaps you can figure something our where the dog is taken out to be house broken every 30-60 minutes & maybe even hire a neighbor to take her out for a potty break midday?</p>

<p>Whatever your chosen method, I would give it more time than you think and take her out twice as often as you think you should to really ingrain these new rules in her little dog brain.</p>

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<p>Our past experience with beagles is that they don’t care if they are dirty. Fortunately they are smallish and easy to bathe. :slight_smile: Very charming dogs (ours were) and worth that extra effort.</p>

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<p>A very useful link:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/house-training-your-puppy-mill-dog”>http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/house-training-your-puppy-mill-dog&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“Although crate training can be great for many dogs, it might not be appropriate for dogs who came from puppy mills. Your dog was probably forced to sleep in his own excrement at the puppy mill, so, unlike normal dogs, he might not have the same reluctance to soil his sleeping area. If he doesn’t mind sitting in his own mess, you may need to use a larger confinement area instead.”</p>

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<p>We just lost our wretched, terrible,but much loved dog. Actually, I’ve been tearing up this whole weekend over this and still catch glimpses of him in his favorite spots.</p>

<p>He was a horror to house break. After having two dogs that were so easy to train, this one just drove me nuts as he exhibited the exact same behavior that your dog is. Yes, he would soil his crate and himself. He broke a lot of the “dogs don’t” adages, because he did. Repeatedly. I did finally train him but it took a very long time of concerted effort that I was able to do at the time as a SAHM. </p>

<p>I first did have him checked out to make sure he had no ailment that was causing his issue. A clue to some of his problem was that our vet did say, “he’s going to be a puppy forever”. He was the sweetest puppy and cutest that I have ever seen, but he was unaware, slow in learning and would be his entire life. He did not seem to even be aware that he was voiding or pooping, I noticed. Like infants do not know either at times.</p>

<p>So I first limited his food and water more than usual–checked with the vet to make sure the levels were safe as he was just a puppy… With an older dog, you’ll have more leeway. I then kept him with me at all times and focused on his bodily functions. Stayed right by the kitchen door and if he started to dribble or squat, I immediately yelled, took him right outside and had him go there and then gave him a special treat. He was deliberately kept a bit hungry and thirsty, and I tried to pattern his body into going at various times and got to know his biorhythms. I even slept with him on the floor on a comforter with him right on me, so that any sign of going, I was right there. </p>

<p>He literally had a short leash and hardly ever was put down without being tethered to me unless he was outside. I always took him to the area where he generally did his business first .</p>

<p>Yes, he was housebroken eventually, but he still liked to pee in the corners and along my walls to the week he died. We had to make certain parts of the house off limits (the ones with nice carpeting and wall to wall) to him, which was fine because he was a rather bad smelling fellow anyways despite a diet to help him in that regard. Part of the breed trait. </p>

<p>He was equally difficult to train in other regards as well. But a little hunger with some yummy treats with compliance worked the best with many repetitions. </p>

<p>Good luck I;m in tears thinking about my little guy. Loved and love him so.</p>

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<p>Great advice, but I am so sorry, cpt. The only shortcoming of a dog is that they don’t live as long as we do. Many hugs to you. </p>

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<p>So true^^. We waited over a year after our much loved dog passed away to get a new one. It’s hard not to compare, but our old dog made us all realize the traits we wanted in a new dog. They give so much love. </p>

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<p>I’m wondering about you feeding her at 6:30 at night in her crate and then give her a milk bone in the morning. Maybe the time or amount of times that she is fed needs to be changed. My beagle is bigger he’s 28 pounds. I feed him twice a day. Then he poops a couple hours later. Perhaps your dog’s digestive system is slower or maybe she needs the amount of food divided up. Too much in her tummy at one time might make her have to go. Have you tried feeding her in the morning instead or feeding her earlier at night or twice a day? </p>

<p>“Our past experience with beagles is that they don’t care if they are dirty.” @intparent lol. the grass is always greener.Mine isn’t that way instead he is always licking and cleaning himself. It’s kind of annoying at times…</p>

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<p>Also want to chime in on the feeding schedule - we rescued a 25 pound schnoodle and never crated him. We were at home with him non-stop for the first few weeks (summer vacation) and that helped us all get on a good schedule. We fed him a small meal at 7am and then he went outside as needed. We fed him again at 4pm and that was his main meal. Walked him around 6pm and he always pooped on that walk. Let him out to pee again before bed. When school year started, he was home alone for 6-7 hours with no problem. So, I would try adjusting dog’s meal times - do 2 smaller meals and try to time so that you can walk him an hour or two after the main meal to try and get on a fairly regular schedule.</p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse So sorry for your loss. What breed was your dog?</p>

<p>OP, I think you need to start over and treat this dog as if she were an 8 yr old puppy that you were housebreaking. Definitely buy a gallon of Nature’s Miracle and treat the spots where she has urinated. Since she has been at the vet, I assume the vet checked for urinary tract infections. I completely support the suggestion that you should feed her twice a day, not once. I think you need to spend almost every minute with her for a while just as your vet suggested and take her out at least every couple of hours all day every day. Take her to the same spot, choose some phrase, such as “get busy” or “go potty” or whatever. Stand there until she starts to go, then repeat it over and over with mounting enthusiasm and finish with a lot of praise. I don’t think that “letting her out” is going to work the way <em>taking</em> her out will. Try to make sure that she doesn’t get the opportunity to have any accidents. If you are going to crate her, make sure that the area available to her is small, using a partition if necessary.</p>

<p>Does she suffer from separation anxiety? The dog I was recently fostering did, and he would pee in his crate if I left him for 15 minutes, much less a few hours. He also peed in the other places in the house occasionally, although he was more or less housebroken. It was connected to his anxiety. It was the first time I encountered that. He was a dog who had spent far too much time in a crate every day.</p>

<p>Consulting a good <em>behaviorist</em> as opposed to a regular obedience trainer would be a good idea. </p>

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<p>My dog is fed twice a day, and I take her out to walk just prior to the meals (breakfast and dinner). No output, no input is the general rule. :slight_smile: She goes out a couple other times a day, but usually just for a quick pee.</p>

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<p>" The vet said that we would have to keep an eye on her at all times even if it means tying the leash to our belt or the kitchen cabinets if we are in there. This seems insane. We have had three other dogs during the past 25 years and never had to do this."</p>

<p>This is pretty common advice, IME. I volunteer for a rescue and have fostered many dogs over the past couple of years. We have had a few that we kept leashed initially–never for more than a few days. But we’ve never fostered a beagle :slight_smile: They do have a rep for being stubborn as others have said.</p>

<p>I think adjusting meal times and also taking the dog for a walk and not ending it until you see poop are both good ideas. Keeping them walking can get things moving in a way that just letting them out into the yard may not.</p>

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<p>^ Yes walking her to poop is a good idea. Our beagle does not like to go poop in our yard. I can let him out to run around our backyard numerous times a day and he will pee but yet he will “hold” it to poop until I take him for a walk. I’m not sure what’s up with that but I think that’s where the stubborn part comes in. </p>