<p>Good point, hayden. Police can’t just shoot at people willy nilly, and they especially can’t shoot to kill. There are specific protocols. </p>
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<p>Not the post itself. But the author of the post could be called to authenticate it, and then give his/her testimony about what he/she saw.</p>
<p>Minutes 1:48 - 4:15 hold a first person description of the incident. It is a more clear explanation of how the contact first happened. The officer yelled at them about being in the street, went slightly past them with his SUV then backed up along side and opened the door. The witness states that he was so close to them that the door bounced back when he tried to open it and angered him at which time he reached through the window and initiated contact. According the witness the officer threatened to shoot then did. The boys ran. The witness ducked and hid behind a car while Brown kept running. The rest is history.</p>
<p>I don’t know where the line is for “strong-arm robbery” and I am not in any way excusing the crime. However, the shove of the clerk was not a beat down in any sense of the word. It is certainly more serious than “shoplifting” but not a capital offense. </p>
<p>If the witness is accurate about the beginning of the altercation, the officer was spoiling for a fight. Two kids walking down the middle of a residential street? Give me a break, that’s not cause for the cop to stop the car and try to grab the kid.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see if the bullet wounds corroborate the story. There would be one wound from close range, some from the rear as the officer was pursuing and Brown was running, then some from the front as Brown turned around and raised his hands.</p>
<p>The stills the police released make the altercation with the store clerk look worse than it was. I’m not excusing theft either, but that was a shove, not a beating. That’s not a capital crime that warrants a fleeing felon being shot to death.</p>
<p>The tweeter says he thinks it was around 7 shots, 2 from behind and 5 from the front. He also says Brown turned around, and mentions Brown’s parents “trippin” consistent with the video Fang posted. In fact, it strikes me that the witness accounts are remarkably consistent. The tweets were contemporaneous, before other witness statements were in the media. </p>
<p><em>Language warning, and a photo</em> <a href=“‘I Just Saw Someone Die’: Photos from Man Who Seemingly Witnessed Michael Brown Shooting”>http://www.mediaite.com/online/i-just-saw-someone-die-photos-and-tweets-from-man-who-witnessed-michael-brown-shooting/</a></p>
<p>ETA – Fang, apparently a civil rights lawyer is trying to arrange for an independent autopsy. If that happens, I’d bet results will be released right after. I don’t think we’re going to have to wait on Ferguson PD.</p>
<p>In post #301 when I said “he” I meant the officer was angered by the door bouncing back and the officer reached out and grabbed Brown (allegedly).</p>
<p>Someone was asking about the rate at which blacks are shot by police compared to whites. There is not comprehensive nationwide data, but there is a clear trend:</p>
<p><a href=“Exactly How Often Do Police Shoot Unarmed Black Men? – Mother Jones”>http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-michael-brown-ferguson-black-men</a></p>
<p>Flossy, I’m sure you’ve seen the tape of the cop telling the reporter in McDonalds to turn off his video camera, as well as police driving the Al Jazeera crew away from their equipment. I thought you’d like know how the courts view this behavior. </p>
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<p>In other words, it is clearly unconstitutional. </p>
<p>(Sorry, too late to edit)</p>
<p>Here’s the link for the above quote: [Ferguson</a> police broke the law when they stopped civilians from videotaping them](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-broke-the-law-when-they-stopped-civilians-from-videotaping-them-and-theyre-just-the-latest/]Ferguson”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-police-broke-the-law-when-they-stopped-civilians-from-videotaping-them-and-theyre-just-the-latest/)</p>
<p>Also, you made much of the notion that the police didn’t seem bothered by the crew that was filming the Al Jazeera incident. But in fact, they were bothered. After they tear-gassed the Al Jazeera crew, police approached the local crew which had filmed the video we’ve all seen. The police had guns drawn. They directed the local crew to leave, and they did, evidently not wishing to be tear-gassed themselves or worse.</p>
<p>And yet another case of the Ferguson police unconstitutionally intimidating and threatening the press:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/14/crews-hit-with-bean-bags-tear-gas/14042747/”>http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/14/crews-hit-with-bean-bags-tear-gas/14042747/</a></p>
<p>pizzagirl: In my ten plus years on this board, your post 170 is one of the ugliest I have read.</p>
<p>This case is beginning to defy description; farce or tragedy?</p>
<p>I think it’s a tragedy. The only good things to come out of it might be a closer look at racial disparities in law enforcement versus the communities they serve and greater awareness of the troubling militarization of our police forces.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/08/14/ferguson-and-the-shocking-nature-of-us-police-militarization”>http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/08/14/ferguson-and-the-shocking-nature-of-us-police-militarization</a></p>
<p>I agree; the fact that the militarization issue has been disclosed and now is getting scrutinized is a plus. It’s interesting that politicians of differing stripes in Washington want to look at this. I am anxious to read Sen. Rand Paul’s critique of the police tactics in Missouri.</p>
<p>The video of the store theft is key to show the mind-set of Brown. As the store worker tries to recover the stolen property, Brown pushes him away as if to show he didn’t care what the worker wanted. That mind-set must have appeared in his reaction to the police officer when the officer said get out of the street. When a police officer says get out of the street you are supposed to get out of the street. Refusing to do so is a basis for arrest and prosecution. Brown was a bad guy not a good guy, but I have yet to see anything to suggest the police officer was in fear of his life or had some other basis to shoot Brown. </p>
<p>LakeWashington, Rand Paul has weighed in, and his views are exactly what I would have predicted:</p>
<p><a href=“Senator Rand Paul on Ferguson: We Must Demilitarize the Police | Time”>http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/</a></p>
<p>I have to say that I agree with every word. I have been shocked to learn of the arming of police forces. Apparently this has been going on for years, and I had no idea.</p>
<p>After the Trayvon Martin murder (which still haunts me), I was saddened to learn of “the talk” that black parents, even upper middle class, well-educated, prominent black parents (think Eugene Robinson), have with their teenaged sons. And Michelle Obama said, several years ago, when asked whether she worried about her husband’s safety now that he was president, that because he is a black man she’s been worried about his safety for years. She may have breathed a sigh of relief when her children turned out to be girls. </p>
<p>razorsharp, you are probably right that the mindset of Michael Brown was not one of an obedient choir boy. For one thing, he was 18 and full of the typical bluster that a lot of 18-year-olds have. For another, there seems to have been an undercurrent of tension between the community and police in Ferguson (meaning that the officer likely had a negative mindset of his own). I saw the video and pictures of the scene of the shooting, and I have a hard time understanding why it was so important that he get out of the street at that very moment. In my neighborhood (even on streets that look more traveled than I suspect this one was) teenage boys often toss footballs and goof around until they see a car coming. Jaywalking is also something pretty much everybody does. I certainly would never expect to need the police to intervene–most people are not causing any trouble just by being in the road.</p>
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It’s not rainbows and roses on the otherwise either…</p>
<p>Sally, we don’t know what happened. But if he accosted the cop and tried to grab his gun it’s a problem. Violence erupted again last night.</p>
<p>^^ Amen to that one.</p>