My DD is a junior at a STEM magnet school in VA (NOT TJ). The curriculum at this school is ridiculously difficult. There have been many, many dropouts, and even now in the first semester of junior year she’s had some peers drop. She has kept her head above water admirably and is invested in her research project, but she has hit a roadblock this year with a horrible calculus teacher. This individual cannot/does not teach the material in a way she can understand and she is getting shockingly low grades. Tutoring isn’t helping, working with the teacher isn’t helping, the administration isn’t helping. Her options are to drop out of this program or stick it out and do her best with this teacher/course - they do not allow students to stay in the program and withdraw from a course. So my question is - how much to colleges care about/consider magnet schools that aren’t TJ? If she were to quit now and go back to her base high school, her GPA would soar. Does it look better to stick it out in an incredibly rigorous program with a GPA hit or two or to save oneself and go back to regular high school? Obviously this is her decision, we’re just collecting data.
At the end of the day, you have to be at the “top” of wherever you are. Being mediocre at a top school is not better than being at the top of a mediocre school.
Strictly speaking, I think this is tough because moving schools is not going to hide what is going on now, but the academic piece aside, the “rest” is also important. If academics are all consuming, she is better off at a school where she will have room to thrive outside of the classroom too. That is how she will distinguish herself to admissions. Even for those tippy to students, if all they bring to the table is good grades, it is not enough.
Our experience at a magnet program - my kid ended up being around middle of pack (but sub-10% rank for the school overall). High SAT, 3.8 UW gpa, with like 12 AP classes or something. But there were kids who took even more AP classes and had higher GPA. He didn’t apply anywhere super competitive - loved his safety and got honors college. But the experience was good - taught him to work really hard and now he finds college is easier than HS.
That said, kids did leave the program and did fine. If it’s too much, I think it’s better to finish elsewhere- both for mental health and it’s better to be successful with the content. My other kid had health issues, she stuck it out and has had 2 Cs and is taking one if those classes again. She’ll do fine with college too but again she’s not going for super competitive schools.
Yes. I think there is a LOT of value in this. So its not just about being a big fish in a small pond with no trade offs. But the goals need to be aligned with the reality.
Just to add… A B+ in a hard class is usually a better choice than an A in an easy class. But that is not tanking. And also, the assumption is plenty of other kids are getting Bs, even if some are getting As. And it also matters if its one class vs. all classes.
Yes, not sure if gpa hit means ending with a C in one class or failing the class. I don’t think even one C is the end of the world but again, it depends on one’s college goals
In your other thread you wrote that you do not want her in a “total pressure cooker” for college. You indicated that you want her to have friends, be involved etc. You also said “her magnet high school/magnet experience has been extremely stressful and she has struggled socially and been bullied at times.” To me, it sounds like her current HS experience is exactly what you are trying to avoid in college.
I would take the focus off of what looks “good” for college, and put the focus on her happiness, reducing social struggles etc.
If that means switching back to your local HS, that’s fine. She will still go to college and pursue her interests….and hopefully have less stress and social struggles in the process.
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College, no matter where you go, shouldn’t be easy - but a lot of that is major and aptitude based. Some gel with certain subjects, some don’t.
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You write - “This individual cannot/does not teach the material in a way she can understand.” Expect that several times in college and if she’ll want help, she’ll need to find it. It won’t find her.
You are looking at things incorrectly. If your daughter can’t handle the current environment, she may burn out and not make it through college.
On the other hand, maybe it’s your daughter’s academic short comings and not the schools. Perhaps her load is too difficult for her current abilities.
Don’t worry about what looks good for college. Worry about getting her into a healthy place. Ultimately, her stats, whether at one or two schools, will be reviewed.
Good luck.
There are some magnet programs that truly push beyond what is developmentally appropriate for most kids. That’s not to say many kids don’t make it, but some kids don’t. Half our magnet kids are in the psychologist’s office in tears on a regular basis - you don’t see that in regular school. I don’t think you meant it this way, but I’d like to clarify from my experience — if she can’t handle current environment (ie, if she goes back to regular school instead of sticking with magnet), that does not mean she won’t make it in college. I’ve seen plenty of kids drop out of our magnet program, graduate from regular high school, and make it through college just fine. On the flip side, I have also seen some kids get through magnet program successfully but then burn out early in college because they are just spent by the time they get there and they never learned to manage expectations, perfectionism, stress/work life balance. I spent a lot of time with my kids in magnet program helping them learn how to balance their extreme workload with stress levels. Sometimes that meant teaching them to accept a B or even a C because they are all also perfectionists. For instance, stopping school work at 9pm no matter what instead of staying up doing homework until all hours - because sleep needs to be prioritized over a perfect grade.
I agree with this. Your student’s well being is far more important than anything related to college.
Yes my point isn’t to demean. My point is if a student is struggling so much -mentally or academically - their interest may spiral away from school.
Many kids start college with a hatred of school going in and have a miserable experience.
But OP also needs to understand that the student will have teachers in college they don’t mesh with - and support will only be there if sought out.
What we don’t know is if the student is truly struggling due to bad teaching or they aren’t ready academically for the course being taught. As they say, there’s 3 sides to every story.
Perhaps the teaching isn’t great. Perhaps the student is unable to adapt to the teaching style. Perhaps the student is simply not ready for the material.
In my mind, no matter the where and rigor level, getting this student to a happy place mentally is more important than Hofstra vs Harvard. And btw - both will have good and not so good profs - and both will have classes where they get it and both will have classes that strain the student - just like today.
Hope that helps.
My daughter went to an IB middle school program. When looking for a high school, she interviewed at the IB high school (and several other hs also). We didn’t like the administrator at all. We then looked at the magnet program at the hs we were assigned (it was for robotics, computers and something else) and the director’s own daughter had gone to the IB program. He said she was so stressed she almost didn’t go to college. That was the vibe we were getting too. Is that worth it? I don’t think so. (and then we moved so she didn’t go to any of those high schools. Oh well)
HS is supposed to be fun too. Drama and band and debate and working on the newspaper are important. If the school isn’t helping you solve this problem with the calc teacher, I’d say they don’t care much about the students, just about the program.
Go to the high school where her friends are attending. Have fun. Even going to TJ is not a free pass to an Ivy school if that’s even what she’s looking for. If students are leaving because of pressure or falling grades, it’s unlikely they are from the top of the class. If she was 40/200, she now might be 40/150. The pressure will only get worse.
Most colleges & universities accept just about everyone, so I think it is safe to assume you are asking about selective institutions. The most selective college & universities are filled with students that could (and many did) make high As in Calculus (and 5s on AP exams), even with poor teachers.
Same. Of course if she loves the program overall and just has to get through one difficult class, that is a path worth considering. But if this is overall not working out, then I agree it will be fine if she switches paths.
Hi all. Thanks for the replies. Whoever said that the stressful/pressure cooker environment we don’t want for her in college seems like what she has now is correct. However, she is 3 years in and heavily invested in her other work there, so pulling out would be a major decision. I wouldn’t say that this program is beyond her at all. She’s done very well and been quite successful. However, it has been to the detriment of extracurriculars and a “normal” high school life. She’s got a poor teacher in this one class and I agree she’ll get more in college, difference is that if you get a particularly bad fit/bad egg prof in college you can, sparingly, withdraw and try another section. In public HS you don’t have that option.
We/she don’t necessarily want her going to an Ivy. We think that’s unlikely. However, she is extremely smart and unusual and needs to be somewhere intellectual to thrive.
This of course is a serious consideration.
But so is this.
It is not really possible for us to know from the outside what is best for your daughter, but I think IF it were true whether or not this program was good for her overall was already a close call, then possibly this situation could in fact tip the balance, even though as you say it would be a major decision. But kids are resilient, and so again IF this was a major change worth doing, she would very likely make it work out well.
So my two cents is she almost surely can get to that goal either way.
In fact, I think if you make a point of looking for them, there are lots and lots of what I like to call academicky undergrad programs, at all sorts of different points on the selectivity scale in terms of things like GPAs and test scores. Among the reasons this is possible is precisely that not every smart and intellectual kid has a perfect HS experience, or does their best work specifically on tests like the SAT/ACT, or so on.
And so those programs do not always put a lot of such barriers in the way of joining, IF you are otherwise the sort of kid they think will fit well. And in fact some will let you try, but not necessarily everyone will succeed, which is a whole other thing.
But that doesn’t mean the current choice doesn’t matter, it just means that particular goal (finding an undergrad program suitable for a kid like yours) is not really in jeopardy either way.
And so I think the point various of us are making is really just permissive–she can choose whatever overall path seems like it would lead to finishing out HS with the best possible experience. And she can make that choice without being concerned about her choice cutting off her ability to go to a suitable college.
There are far more colleges than you realize where this happens - and then colleges have “Honors” colleges to boot.
Mine is at a regional by choice (chose the safety)- but she’s in a subgroup of Honors (actually two) - and she has rigor and intellectual classmates in spades. Started a club to help the local resettlement organization integrate refugees in the community. Interned at a think tank.
If your daughter seeks out intellectualism, she’ll find it whether at Iowa State or an Ivy.
And if she’s short of extracurriculars - it’s going to potentially impact admissions and/or scholarships at many schools anyway.
College is a time of personal growth - and hopefully she’ll pursue the path to get her where she wants to be - once she’s there on her own.
That can depend on the major she chooses.
She will find smart, intellectual students at many, many schools.
As far as teachers that are not a good fit- this is a learning experience and a skill that she will have to learn how to navigate in order to succeed.
It seems to me that her current HS experience is not what you want it to be. That would upset me and that would be my focus and immediate priority. She deserves to enjoy all aspects of HS.
Your daughter deserves to have a better experience in High School. If she has neighborhood, and life-long friends that go to her local school, I would likely go to that school. She has time to kindle those interest in EC, take the time she needs to for course work, and excel. She only has one time she is in HS.