<p>A friend recently discovered that her 12th grade daughter can’t divide a two-digit number into a three-digit number, with pencil and paper. Her daughter considers herself a college prospect, has a math SAT in the high 400s, and is in the lower-level college prep math track (algebra stretched into 12th grade, as opposed to precalc in 12th grade).</p>
<p>Does this seem normal? The young lady shrugs it off, relying on calculators. But my friend sees this as a sign of a fundamental gap in basic mathematical reasoning ability (and I tend to agree). The answer was a single digit, plus decimals, and the fact that the kid couldn’t round the divisor and estimate the single digit answer is what surprised the mother.</p>
<p>Yikes! I would think this is an important thing to know. I know some people with poor math skills, but it will be difficult in college in any field with math (which is a lot of majors!) Have her watch some kahn academy videos–maybe she just never learned it but can pick it up quickly?</p>
<p>She should get a tutor ASAP. Many fields in college, including ones not traditionally considered math intensive (eg psychology, environmental studies, poly sci, etc) require basic math abilities. If the daughter can’t understand long division, she’ll likely encounter serious issues both in college and in life.</p>
<p>Long division is not taught anymore in a lot of places. The students learn a different type of algorithm for division, which is supposed to promote understanding, and sometimes succeeds at that. The alternative algorithm tends to be hard to remember for a student who has not really understood what’s going on. And there is very little drill to compensate for that. The girl’s teachers would probably argue that this is what calculators are for. Most college science and math classes permit the use of calculators, although a few do not. The few that don’t, rarely require long division by hand.</p>
<p>I thought the low level was pre- calc or stats for 12 gd, Calc Ap for middle & Calc AP BC for the top track.
Hasn’t there been any indication she was struggling previously?
I thought all states had benchmark testing that should have caught something like this.
I’d work with the math teacher to assess her skills and a plan to catch up.</p>
<p>I can’t do it in my head, and I have a 730 math SAT and am taking Calc.</p>
<p>But with pen and paper, that’s pretty worrisome. Yes, watch Khan Academy videos but I’m not sure whether that will be able to cover what she’s missed. If her parents are willing to, I would suggest having them sit down with the teacher (if s/he isn’t good, talk with the division head). The daughter might resent if they focus on the division problem, so this should be a discussion about her college prospects, which might not be so good anyways.</p>
<p>Yes, at school my kids were taught this excruciatingly long method for division. I showed them the “old” way, which they picked up immediately. I also made them drill a lot at home. They were unhappy with me at the time, but two of the three of them thanked me later (the middle kid didn’t like ANYTHING I did).</p>
<p>While I almost always rely on calculators for real world division, it’s helpful to know when my answer doesn’t make sense. If the daughter can’t understand that 32/150 is less than 1, she might seriously over or underestimate how much something costs if she accidentally enters in the wrong digit on her calculator.</p>
<p>I don’t think the issue is that she can’t do the exact operations needed for long division. I assume most people ten years out of college can’t do that. What is troubling is that she can’t estimate an answer even when its range should be fairly obvious.</p>
<p>Also EmeraldKitty, you’ve been on CC for too long. At my school the low level college prep math track was Algebra II by the 12th grade. Many other states just require successful completion of geometry to enter the directional as a freshman.</p>
<p>I would be more concerned with the SAT Math score in the 400s than the ability to do long division…which is usually done with a calculator these days.</p>
<p>I have to say…I can’t remember the last time I did long division by hand. DH is an engineer, and doesn’t do long division by hand.</p>
<p>I don’t think most people will suffer in life because they can’t do long division.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, if this is an otherwise strong student, a math SAT score in the 400s is not going to help with college applications. I will say, if she is taking algebra as a high school senior, she may not have had the math instruction needed to do well on the math section of the SAT. Where I am, most college bound students took algebra 1 in 9th grade, geometry in 10th, algebra 2 in 11th and precalc in 12th. Others took precalc in 11th and calc in 12th. Not too many college bound students at our high school were taking algebra as HS seniors.</p>
<p>A math SAT in the high 400s is only slightly below the national average. Unless this student is aiming for selective universities, it shouldn’t be an issue.</p>
<p>I do long division all too often - because I can’t find the calculator! Though if it’s really hairy there are always calculators on my computers.</p>
<p>Normal level in the US is trigonometry / precalculus in 12th grade. Any type of AP calculus in high school is considered advanced (of course, there are varying levels of advanced). College-bound students who are weaker in math may only reach geometry and algebra 2, or choose to take a low level statistics course instead of trigonometry / precalculus after completing geometry and algebra 2.</p>
<p>An SAT math score in the high 400s would make her competitive for all but maybe 200 colleges in the country (and there would be at least a few students with math scores like that in all but a few.)</p>
<p>I don’t think the sat tests more than algebra and a little geometry doesn’t it?
( I’ve never taken the SAT so I wasn’t sure)
No wonder kids have such trouble in math, we keep changing the way we teach it, but I bet that the schools of education lag behind.
Both my kids have learning challenges that affect basic math skills like computation ( which failure to track interferes with) but youngest made up being behind almost two years when she started high school, but finished physics & pre Calc by graduation because she & her teachers worked their fannies off.
My oldest did so well that when she took the GRE her math score was much higher than her writing/ English score & she is a very strong writer ( she has been working as an editor after grad school).</p>
<p>I would guess that the girl in question can get by fine with the skills she has, but I would want to be sure there aren’t any other gaps because that will affect her as she goes on.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s normal but I can’t say I’m surprised. When I was in Grad school (social science field), one professor got really frustrated with my class in the Methods class. He finally asked, “Who here needs help doing percentages?” I must have snorted when several purple raised their hands because one student turned to me and snarled, “We weren’t all math majors like you.” I threw back, “but you did pass third grade, right?”</p>
<p>Later, my best friend said “I know how but I have a question? If I want to find 74% of 524 do I multiply by 74 first and then divide by 100 or do I divide first and then multiply?” </p>
<p>This was graduate school; okay, in a social science but I was stunned.</p>
<p>I think people are way too cavalier because I always hear “we have calculators”. It’s not just knowing the how, it’s knowing the why behind the how.</p>
<p>My daughter was definitely taught long division in school (don’t remember what grade). However, she was never taught what I used to call short division (a multi-digit number being divided by a one digit number). They would do those as fractions instead - not setting it up with the division symbol and the divisor on the outside etc.</p>
<p>I learned to divide by hand in elementary school and to be honest I’d have to sit down and try it to see if I remember how to do it. I haven’t had to do it since maybe 5th grade, which was probably when we learned long division. I seem to have done okay, and this is the least of my concerns in math.</p>
<p>Way back in the olden days I missed large chunks if 3rd and 4th grades due to illness. Consequently I never learned how to do both fractions and decimals, and for some reason no one even thought to even send homework home and my parents were just told not to worry - I was smart and would catch up. Of course I never did and struggled all through school with math. Once in college, I just never took another Math class but was able to graduate and go on to get Masters from both Syracuse Maxwell School and University of Chicago and while those required no math, I did have to take Stats.</p>