That is a fair point. Once one looks at the factors that go into each of the multiple rankings online, it is clear that either they are too easy to manipulate by moving some factors around, or most LACs appear to be evenly matched.
For us, the overall vibe of the place and students we have interacted with (virtually) has played a big part. Thank you again for your inputs.
Thank you. I think my sonâs thoughts currently are similar to your sonâs , in the sense that he would rather have his college be the focus of his growth journey, with relatively easy access to a city on certain occasions. I went to a similar college and can understand this thought.
This decision may depend on how strongly this is sought. Suburban Haverford offers proximity to Philadelphia, of course, as well as reasonably convenient access to other historic East Coast cities.
Sort of random, but I know my S24 is being influenced by what he liked about his HS experience, and this was the setup thereâvery nice campus in the suburbs which has really been the focus of his activities, but the rest of the city is available for occasional other activities with friends, dates, and so on (this became a much bigger deal when he and his peers started driving).
Yeah, personally, I absolutely love Haverfordâs location and connectivity to Philly and beyond (for that matter, connectivity to where we live). I just think for my kid, there was a sharply diminishing marginal value to all that. Like, to him it apparently means largely nothing that you can train to DC or NYC as wellâhis vision, for now at least, is satisfied by just one convenient city.
First of all congratulations on deciding that LAC is a choice for your S24. A bold move for internationals that run /chase the big univ names.
Point 1 and 2, you should not even consider while deciding a college for your S24 as an international.
#3 Academics and job prospects: Its hands down Grinnell, why their real open curriculum that gives ample opportunity to decide what to major in and what concentration to pick-up.
What I understand from your post that you are looking for proper academic rigor. That leaves you to choose between Carleton and Grinnell. Regarding rigor, in terms of pace, Carleton might be a little bit faster because of the trimester system, whereas Grinnell you may feel a little bit slower because of the semester system. Because of the trimester system at Carleton, youâre taking more classes during the year than at Grinnell, but because of Grinnellâs open curriculum, youâre allowed to explore any area of study youâre genuinely curious about without being tied down to having to meet certain requirements. That gives your S24 an opportunity to explore, interact and grow more more holistically.
If your S24 is very academically oriented student and spends most time in completing course work / classes, Iâd probably choose Carleton. If he is a bit quirky and slightly nerdy, and ok with a bit less stress and a slightly more creative vibe Iâd probably choose Grinnell.
While Grinnell is in middle of no where, they have the might to bring the rest of world on their campus. And, not to miss the $3Bn endowment they have and how they are using the same to generate opportunities of students, faculties, and overall campus.
Do remember, Grinnell is more woke and some dont appreciate that, however if your S24 is considering philosophy that could be plus point.
Also, Grinnell is way too selective, especially for internationals. That means the rest of students around the globe are going to be of real high calibre and your s24 would have an opportunity to rub shoulders with that diverse global student body.
Further, Iâve heard that the wealthy at Carleton are into their money a little more than Grinnell.
Again, both are great options, and you have to decide clearly keeping overall perspective in mind, especially for your S24 needs, and overall wellbeing. You canât go wrong with choosing either.
And Haverford. Right back to where they started. Three excellent, comparable schools.
Just a quick reflection on this relatively minor point. The winter weather will be fairly different between the three with Haverford being relatively mild (comparatively), Grinnell being fairly cold, and Carleton being truly, brutally freezing in the winter.
Average highs/lows in January:
Haverford (Phildelphia): 41/28
Grinnell (Des Moines): 30/13
Carleton (Minneapolis): 22/6
I canât emphasize enough how cold Carleton is! Wonderful school (as are the other two), but brutal winters.
It sounds like you know Grinnell well, which is wonderful. Why donât you focus on the school you know rather than making up things about the school you donât? You can raise up one without putting down another.
This is clearly reflected and evident through the CDS data on average SAT score, college scorecard on income profile, and fin aid provided by both the colleges. So, apparently no surprises here.
Undoubtedly this is a function of each collegeâs ability to have generous financial aid. At $535,000/student, Carleton is much more constrained than Grinnell ($1.4 million/student).
All these schools meet full need and need based aid packages look similar (have to adjust for differences in COA and years).
Proportion of students receiving need based aid/proportion of full pays from the most recent CDSs (2022-23 for Carleton and Grinnell, 2023-24 for Haverford):
Haverford receiving need based aid: 45.5%, full pay 54.5%
Carleton 57.8%/42.2%
Grinnell 64%/36%
See CDS section H line C second column for those having need and line A second column for total# of students.
An advantage of independent analyses is that they can keep unsupported claims in check. For example, the WalletHub selectivity ranks (College & University Rankings) for Haverford, Grinnell and Carleton are #28, #43 and #50, respectively. While this doesnât measure rigor directly, it nonetheless suggests that Haverford students are at least as academically inclined as those at the other two schools.
I would call those âproper wintersâ, but for sure YMMV.
Edit: By the way, to put that comment in context, I grew up in the Upper Midwest, and in fact we had a cabin on a lake that happened to be very close to the same latitude as Northfieldâ44.35 N versus 44.46 N for Northfield. And of course this was before a lot of the recent warming trend, and I have very fond memories of lots of snow-related winter fun.
Again, though, others may not have quite the same background . . . .
This is sort of not true.
Congratulations on your childâs acceptances. I would join all three schoolâs Facebook parents pages and do a deep dive. I would also look carefully at the faculty make up and specifically at the number of permanent and tenured/tenure track faculty versus âvisiting assistant professorsâ who are not simply replacing professors on sabbatical. One can also look at advertised jobs to get an idea if a school is relying on visiting assistant professors to teach rather than hiring permanent faculty. Itâs difficult to form close, personal relationships with faculty mentors if these teachers will be gone in a year or two.
Kiddo just got back from Grinnell and loved it. Perhaps he was managing expectations, but he was pleasantly surprised by the campus and people. In terms of major, he has similar interest to your son as he looks forward to pursuing some sort of PPE major. One of the other LACs he is considering has a strong PPE department, but feels that Grinnellâs open curriculum may lend itself to pursuing a similar scholarship. Anyway, the whole remoteness of Iowa/Grinnell was mitigated by the school itself.
Isnât rigor based more on pace, amount of work, and difficulty of grading â IE, curriculum and faculty â than on selectivity?
(One reason I am not a big fan of the WalletHub ranking â 25% of the overall score is based on selectivity, and only 10% on faculty. Those should be reversed, imo.)
Personally, Iâd say rigor relates majorly to individual student dedication, as well as relating partly to both of the above aspects.
Yeah, I think colleges with a rep for rigor attract kids who are into that. How selective that makes the college will depend on many other factors as well.
This is very helpful and thanks for sharing.
Given OP is international, it will be worthwhile to look at financial aid given to international:
Haverford: Avg Aid - 84K, Internationals receiving aid 36.4%, Full pay internationals: 63.6%(total aid - 4.8 million)
Carleton: Avg Aid 52K, Internationals receiving aid 46.1%, Full pay internationals: 55.9% (total aid - 5.5 million)
Grinnell: Avg Aid - 51K, Internationals receiving aid 63.8%, Full pay internationals: 36.2% (total aid - 10.9 million)
Indeed, for Carleton and Haverford Internationals are the cash cows. Haverford seems to be more generous in terms of offering full ride to some.
@saps_k What is you COA? Are you full pay? At the end that could be an important factor to decide. If you are full pay, then Haverford is a no brainer choice!