Carleton vs Grinnell vs Pitzer Help (intended Biology major, Pre-med)

Hi everyone,

I’m a high school senior and recruited student-athlete deciding between Carleton College and Grinnell College. I have strong coach support from both programs and am trying to decide where to apply.

My current plan is to pursue pre-med, likely majoring in Biology (though I’m open to changing paths if my interests evolve). Becoming a physician is my goal right now, but I also want a college that provides strong opportunities if I ultimately choose a different career.

A few factors I’m considering:

  • Both schools are Division III and academically strong.
  • I will be a varsity athlete and need to balance athletics with pre-med requirements.
  • Carleton is currently ranked somewhat higher nationally, but I’m not sure how much that matters for medical school admissions.
  • Grinnell is offering significant merit aid:
    • If I apply ED1, I would receive $20,000 per year.
    • If I apply ED2, I would receive $10,000 per year.
  • Cost is important, but not the only factor.
  • I’m interested in research opportunities, clinical exposure, medical school placement, study abroad options, and overall student happiness.
  • Location is also something I’m thinking about. Carleton is in Northfield, MN, while Grinnell is in Grinnell, IA.

I’d love to hear from:

  • Current or former students from either school
  • Pre-med students
  • Student-athletes
  • Anyone who seriously considered both schools

Some questions:

  1. Which school would you choose for pre-med and why?
  2. How difficult is it to maintain a strong GPA while being a varsity athlete?
  3. Do you feel one school has a stronger support system for pre-med students?
  4. How easy is it to get research, volunteering, shadowing, and clinical opportunities?
  5. Does Carleton’s stronger reputation provide any meaningful advantage for medical school admissions or future careers?
  6. If the annual cost difference were $20,000, would that change your decision?
  7. Looking back, what do you wish you had known before choosing either school?

I’m especially interested in hearing from people who have firsthand experience rather than just rankings.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Experience with neither but a few things to think about, if you don’t hear of anywhere else:

  1. Carleton is trimesters while Grinnell is semesters
  2. Med school doesn’t care where you go - or it’s very low on the list. And these schools are substitutional anyway.
  3. Carleton (this year) has a cost of $94,980. Grinnell is $91,938 so $3K less. Neither includes books, transport and more. So if you go to Grinnell, if you’re saving $3K + $20K, that’s $23K a year or near $100K.

So you have 8 years - that could be $800K+. Who will pay for grad school? Your parents? Loans that you’ll have to pay back?

If loans, they have to be paid back and I’m sure you’ve read the many horror stories from doctors. In fact, if you had to take significant loans to go to med school, I’d say to find another LAC that’s half the price (assuming you like LACs). Med school won’t care.

Med school - public - often wants in state. At UMN, only 20% are non-residents as an example. They are represented by 97 institutions (256 students) but don’t share with who. At Iowa, 114 of their 142 entering students were in state.

Here’s 3 things for you - two schools I found that show colleges attended (most don’t seem to show this, hence I used these two schools) - you’ll see, the where doesn’t matter. Your MCAT does. The shadowing you’ll do (summer, winter break), working with under priveleged and more might but the where no. Nonetheless, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that can say there’s meaningful difference between Carleton and Grinnell. I think Grinnell has more historic name recognition but these are two peers.

So below, I’ve put three things:

  1. U Kentucky med students college attended - because they show it (most don’t)

  2. UTK - same thing

  3. Vanderbilt med school apps - you will see how few % wise people get into - so it’s 3 years of apps and any acceptances - at most, less than 10% success.

Choose where you’re most comfortable and you ask great questions and I hope you get the answers.

And be very very very very careful of your 8 year budget and potential loans - because if you will have hundreds of thousands and others are recruiting you that are muich cheaper (most LACs will be), then you might consider them too.

Good luck.

2023-Annual-Report.pdf

Let’s say you don’t go to med school - here are career outcomes for each.

Grinnell doesn’t show salaries but on the Employment, if you click see more, you’ll see jobs by major. It doesn’t specify year. They also have a grad school section.

Carleton is not as detailed but notes they have info on 86% of their 2025 grads. Grinnell doesn’t show a knowledge rate but I’d assume it’s high given the amount of data they show.

I’m not sure any of this should matter but it’s always interesting to look at (to me anyway) if for some reason, like most, you don’t end up in med school.

Best of luck.

Graduate Outcomes - All Majors | Grinnell College

First Destinations Data – Career Center – Carleton College

By what source?

Have you visited both schools? Have you spent time with the future teammates and asked them these questions? That’s the best way to get the feedback you are looking for. You aren’t going to find many current students from these schools on CC.

Have both coaches said a lab science major is doable?

Not sure I agree that Carleton has a stronger reputation for any particular outcome.

This depends on your family’s financial situation. Do you/your parents have to borrow that extra $20K? How do you plan on funding med school, if you end up going?

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To me Division III seems vastly preferable to Division I. Premed classes will be tough and will require a lot of effort.

One daughter was pre-vet (same required classes as premed). Freshman year she started out in some sort of junior crew, and was promoted to varsity crew. She lasted one week. It was just too much. However a big part of the problem was that varsity crew practices were every day at 6am. The combination of premed classes, 6am crew practices, pre-vet shadowing (veterinary experience), plus having a life was just too much. I think that she made the right choice in dropping crew.

However, hopefully your practices won’t be every day and won’t be at 6am. You might want to find out how many practices will be required and when they will be.

Very wise. However, this describes both of the excellent colleges that you are considering.

This will not matter at all. It will not matter for medical school placement. It will not matter for job placement. It will not matter for admissions to other types of graduate programs.

Completely forget about the ranking of either school. You are comparing excellent to excellent.

Consider the cost of 8 years of university. Others have suggested that this could cost $800,000, but I think that it might even be a bit more than this. I would figure $900,000 by the time that you are done if you end up being full pay at expensive private schools. The ability of parents to handle this can vary, but it is a lot for most of us. If this would involve some debt, then the cost of attendance is something to consider.

You will need to be driven to do this. The desire to put in this much effort needs to come from inside you.

We don’t have experience with these two schools. We do have some experience with a slightly lower ranked (or perhaps more like “ranked on a different scale”) small university. The experience was excellent, with lots of research opportunities. Regarding shadowing, look to see where the nearest hospital is for both schools.

No. Both are excellent. If you get into medical school, or if you get into a different biomedical graduate program, you will find that other students come from a huge range of undergraduate schools. Maybe a few might be higher ranked (Harvard?). A lot will be similarly ranked but also a lot of students will be coming from schools that are lower ranked than either of the schools that you are considering. In any MD program, or any well ranked biomedical graduate program, there will be lots and lots of very excellent students and they will have come from “all over the place” (this is an exact quote from an MD I know).

This would be a tough decision for us. We were facing almost this exact question many years ago. We went with the “in the middle” choice, and not the cheapest choice but not the most expensive. The “in the middle” choice looked like the best fit, and we were able to make it all work out okay.

And finding the best fit is important, but is not easy.

I actually agree that this is a tough decision. If you can make the finances work out okay, then either one would be a great choice.

Update: I also have a women’s golf offer from Pitzer, so I’m now seriously considering it alongside Carleton and Grinnell! I’ve visited both Carleton and Pitzer and really loved Pitzer’s location in Southern California, but I’m having a hard time deciding how much to weigh location against academics and pre-med opportunities. I know all three are strong academically, but I’m wondering how Pitzer compares with Carleton and Grinnell in terms of pre-med preparation, research opportunities, GPA, and medical school admissions, especially as a DIII athlete. I haven’t visited Grinnell yet, so I’d love to hear from anyone who has firsthand experience at any of these schools or can compare them. I’m really torn because I love California, but I also want to make sure I’m making the best decision for my future!

You will not be at a disadvantage at any of these schools in terms of med school preparation OR pivoting to another field of you decide against med school in the long run. They are all outstanding schools with excellent reputations. Each has its advantages, but one advantage that Pitzer has over the others is that you can have access to the depth and breadth of courses offered through the consortium. This is not to say that Pitzer is a superior choice, but if you love the SoCal setting, then the consortium is another check in the “plus” column you can keep in mind.

I agree with a previous posted who suggested you make sure you’ll be able to pursue an academic plan heavy in lab sciences while playing a varsity sport – a good question for coaches (and athletes, if you have a chance to connect with them) at all three schools.

Congrats on your success in the recruiting process!

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If you were worried about ‘rep’ of Grinnell vs. Carleton, well Pitzer isn’t in their league. And I don’t think it matters.

Pitzer is much bigger. Why? The women’s golf team tells you - Pomona/PItzer. Pitzer is a part of a multi school consortium (the 5 Cs) that are adjacent to each other, take classes and eat together, etc. It’s $94,256.

So again - you ask great questions - but:

  1. What exactly is a pre med opportunity? If you went to Alaama, you’d have the McCullough Medical Scholars. Va Tech - has on campus shadowing. Wofford - will set up shadowing in your J Term - but pre med is an intention. You’ll need a great MCAT, you’ll need shadowing which you can do on breaks. You’ll need service, etc.

Research can be done anywhere. Often, there are more opportunities than kids. Some schools, like College of Wooster, which would be half the price of these, embed it in the curriculum.

What do you like about Calfornia? The 5 Cs abut the mountains, in the inland empire so you won’t have clean air - on a regular basis. You won’t have easy access to beaches, etc. You will to hiking and even basic skiing at Mt. Baldy.

When you talk about med school, think about your debt - not where you go. Look at the info I posted in post #2. It shows you a whos who from top schools and no name schools.

You keep asking who is better? You keep saying Carleton is better. Why?

US News rates both Carleton and Grinnell at a tie (makes sense) at #16. PItzer is #44. What does that mean? You need to look at what they are rating.

Linkedin says none of the three are amongst the top 50 for long term success. They have a different rating then US News.

Time Magazine 2027 ranking rates Carleton 151, Grinnell 215 and Pitzer 346.

But what does it mean? They all use different criteria. The WSJ loves schools like Loyola Maryland, UC Merced, and Claremont McKenna (top LAC). They are looking at outcomes.

What matters to you?

If you’re going to be a doctor, it should start with potential debt. You are talking about an $850K endeavor followed by several years of low salary.

Can your family pay $850K or will you require loans (hundreds of thousands). If the answer is yes to significant loans and your family doesn’t have financial need, you might want to find different schools.

Bottom line - these are all great names but different - Pitzer much larger with the 5 Cs, Carleton on quarters, etc. If you have to fly, PItzer is easiest to get to, close to the Ontario airport.

I like the suggestion earlier about reaching out to teams too.

But unless you fit better so you do better, none of the three give you an advantage over the other for pre-med and you can add a hundred or two hundred more schools to that statement - IMHO.

Congrats on great options - that tells me you’ll likely thrive anywhere - but loans are real, and have to be paid back - so make sure you understand your 8 year situation.

And check post two above - including the Vanderbilt link to see the difficulty of med school admissions from anywhere.

As an athlete, the academic calendar may matter more to you than it would for other students. You should think about when you will need to be traveling for competition, where breaks fall, implications for scheduling, and essentially, how each trimester/semester will be impacted by your athletic obligations.

As one example, someone doing a winter sport will need to keep their practice time “protected” for both semesters at a school with a traditional calendar because their sport straddles both. They will have a longer winter break which might fit well with a winter training trip. It will make study abroad virtually impossible. Otoh, they will have freedom the first part of the fall semester and the second halfof spring semester, so one term isn’t bearing the full brunt of a training/competitive schedule. Contrast all of that with a trimester schedule.

Playing an outdoor sport (like golf) can also be majorly impacted by weather, and when it will be hours everyday, that can matter not just to your sport but to your overall mood.

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Consider how many of the terms overlap with the sport season (with its extra time commitments) at each school.

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It might be a draw between Carleton and Pitzer in this respect. Pitzer is closer to Ontario than Carleton is to MSP, but MSP is a major international airport with far more airlines and direct flights to more destinations. And there’s a bus that goes from MSP to Northfield (only about 45 minutes). Both would be significantly easier than Grinnell.

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Pitzer, I believe, lost some places due to whatever new formula US News is using, and so did Carleton (I think). But are they different schools than they were before the formulas changed? No. And of course the fact that US News inexplicably includes the service academies in their national LAC rankings muddies the rankings even more.

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All you can do is ask these questions of your potential teammates at each school. I doubt there is much difference in med school outcomes or opportunities at any of these schools…and the data we would need to compare them across the dimensions you are asking doesn’t exist.

Big picture, as a parent of a NESCAC golfer, I would not underestimate the benefit of the California climate for playing golf, nor would I underestimate the impact of Carleton’s trimester system on grades and stress, when you are in golf season for all of the fall trimester and most of the spring trimester.

Good luck and congratulations on your recruiting success!

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If the four-year cost to attend Grinnell College is significantly lower than Carleton College, then choose Grinnell. Also, if you prefer an open curriculum, strong pre-med track records with high medical school acceptance rates, and an individual-driven academic philosophy.

Carleton, on the other hand, is a high-ranked brand name in STEM located in a tight-knit residential college town located close to Minneapolis/St. Paul, well-known for medical/healthcare industries, making it a strong place to pursue internship opportunities.

Both are solid LAC options for pursuing a major in biology.

Q: Is there a third option for you to consider besides Carleton & Grinnell?

See above. Pitzer.

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You’re not going to like this, and I’m surely going to take a lot of flaming for this.

Where do you want to be, 5-6 years from now? Med school? A biology degree without going to med school (which means a starting salary of 35-45K/yr, IF you can even find a job)? What is most important to you? Because it’s extremely time consuming to be a recruited athlete for any sport. Unless you expect to go pro in men’s football or basketball (which I’m sure you do not expect), you’re going to expend a huge amount of time on your sport, and it’s not going to leave you the time that you will need to get the 4.0 GPA you seek, nor to do all the hours of research, volunteering, and clinical work that you need to apply, plus studying for the MCAT. You can take possibly 3 gap years before your MCAT score will expire, assuming that you finish all your premeds while an undergrad, maybe take the summer after college off to study full time, and take the MCAT in mid September (usually the last administration date until the next calendar year). Or you can enjoy college, major in whatever you want, play your sport, do your best, and finish the pre-reqs after college at your local 4 yr state college, while living at home, and take the MCAT when you finish them - it will be a 2 year process, at a minimum.

You can be a successful premed. You can be a varsity athlete. It’s going to be very, very hard (not impossible, but very hard) to do both, even if you push off all the other required ECs to after college, and take a 3 year gap. And here come the flames of “My Iphigenia was a varsity swimmer all four years, and a pre-med with a 4.0 GPA, got a 528 MCAT, and published 8 research papers, was a right-hand-woman assistant to a family practice doctor for hundreds of hours, and did hundreds of hours of needle exchange outreach at the closest inner-city skid row, all while having a lively social life in college.” Umm, no. For most people, this is just not possible. It’s hard enough to do it without being a varsity athlete, and unfortunately, practices, games, away games, and the expected social events for your team are all not on a flexible schedule, making it very hard to even fit in studying, let alone research and the hundreds of hours of ECs.

And I haven’t even hit the issue of money. Med school, if you go, costs as much as 400K total, and will only go up. Sure, some schools offer massive fin aid, but most don’t; most people are paying the rack rate. You’re talking about paying 75-95K/yr for college, and you’re going to be spending a huge chunk of your time on the varsity sport.

BTW, you can major in anything you like, absolutely anything, and still get into med school, as long as you have the pre-reqs and the other elements of the application. It’s best to major in something you absolutely love, because it’s easiest to get A’s in something you love, and you need that high GPA. If that’s Bio, sure, but you shouldn’t think that because you are planning on applying to med school, you should be a Bio major. You can be an art history major, an English major, a folklore major, anything you like, and as long as you have all the pre-reqs and other components, med schools don’t care; in fact, they seem to like people who major in other than Bio or Chem.

If you really want to become a doctor, and if your family is not upper class, if your parents will miss 800K over the next 8-10 years, which might mean that they’d have to work a few years longer, or if you would be forced to borrow for college or med school, then PLEASE reconsider. Your best option is likely to be your in-state flagship, if you want to get into med school. It probably will cost you 30-40K/yr, and you can play your sport on the club level, or the rec level, to the degree that you are able. You’ll come out 200K ahead, and you will more likely be able to spend the time on studying for the high GPA and MCAT, and compiling the EC record you’ll need.

So please, if you really, really want to become a doctor - potentially satisfying life work, a decision that will affect the rest of your life, not just college - then consider the “third option”. Even if you weren’t planning on med school, choosing to pay rack rate or 80% of rack rate for a choice of two small LACs because these are the two offering you a spot as a recruited athletes is not necessarily the wisest choice. You haven’t mentioned anything that’s drawing you towards Carleton or Grinnell other than the fact that they’re offering you a spot as a recruited athlete - one at full pay, and one at the still very high rate of about 75K/yr, for the privilege.

Please, have a serious discussion with your parents, and anyone else who knows about the current state of applying to med school. Consider whether it’s worth it to you to pay that much money for one of two schools whose only draw for you seems to be that they want you to play your sport there. Consider whether you really want to be a doctor, or whether it’s just a thought, not a burning desire, because believe me, you have to really want it, to do the work to compile the record to get in.

And if you have to borrow to attend these schools? Not a good idea, at all (and I’m restraining myself).

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Great post.

I would add - lots of LACs (public and private) also come in at state school flagship prices.

This question (actually fourth, after Pitzer), plus what the budget is for a full 8 years of university, are the two questions that I am still wondering about.

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I have a high opinion of all these options, but no less so Grinnell than the others.

So unless your family is very wealthy and can offer to pay for both undergrad and med school for you, I would strongly consider taking merit from Grinnell. This is assuming what you would save could be redirected to reduce med school costs if needed.

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