Am deciding between Hamilton and Carleton. Interested in Environmental Studies (and am curious if one school does better in this area than the other). Seeking a unified, supportive campus (I’m sure I would find this at both but still worth stating). Any insight is helpful!
So I would definitely suggest spending some time looking around each of their departmental pages:
One thing you might consider is the designated field study options. Looking at their course offerings, Carleton apparently does Oaxaca, Tanzania, Cameroon, and the Grand Canyon. Hamilton appears to do Adirondack Park and Arizona (through Geosciences). At neither college would you necessarily be limited to these, but I think it is helpful to know what they do in a way that is fully integrated into their curriculum.
Another thing I noticed is Carleton apparently is aware some people might be interested in a bit more hardcore Environmental Sciences. It doesn’t offer that as a standard major, but it suggests such people can talk to their advisors about which science courses to add, and apparently some such people do at least a science minor.
Carleton also has a designated GIS Lab housed in the Environmental Studies program, which recruits interested students from ES:
https://gis.sites.carleton.edu/
Generally, Carleton is known as one of the few most academicky LACs, with relatively high placement rates in PhD programs, a consistent top rating for undergraduate teaching, and so on. Of course Hamilton is very good too, but Carleton being so academicky even among LACs is something to keep in mind (it can be a pro or con depending on you, of course).
I agree both campuses would be extremely supportive. I am not sure what you mean by “unified,” however, so perhaps you can elaborate on what that means to you.
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I think Carleton might edge out Hamilton in this regard. Both schools have happy students though. Carleton is probably a bit more “midwestern friendly.” Plus, there is easy access to a major airport, which could make travel easier, depending on where you want to go.
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Nicely, for you, both of these schools tend to be recognized for their environmental studies programs:
With respect to Hamilton, its particular strength in this area may be found through the overlap of its environmental studies and public policy programs, which might make it the strongest undergraduate school in the nation for the study of environmental policy.
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In the world of LACs, you have two A+ options. Congratulations.
P.S. Just read through both schools’ course offerings in Environmental Studies. Serious major at both schools, but Hamilton College takes the award for most ridiculous course offered that I have ever encountered.
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Visit and go to the school you like more in my opinion. I am incoming Hamilton freshman and while we’d love to have you, you have 2 fantastic options and can’t go wrong with either.
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ENVST–323? Irrespective of your particular opinion, I respect that you read through Hamilton’s extensive environmental studies course listings on behalf of the OP.
I read through everything that you post. You are among the best & most reliable contributors.
Yes, that is the course. I just do not understand the connection.
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Thank you, @Publisher.
Framed here for the moment, the course content appears to rely on the premise that the environmental movement meaningfully intersects with specific social currents. As you suggested, this premise itself may be controversial.
Viewed simply by course count in environmental studies, Hamilton, at 55, seems to offer more breadth and variety than Carleton, at 26. To be thorough, however, this approach would need to considered by more specific aspects, particularly the frequency at which these courses are offered.
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In addition, there may be courses in other departments that are crosslisted with Environmental Studies, which may or may not be listed with the department’s offerings.
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Yes, and I think it can be helpful to see if the department gives you an idea of the courses actually required/recommended for the major.
So here is Carleton:
https://www.carleton.edu/environmental-studies/major/requirements/
They have courses in Bio, Chem, Physics, Math, Stats, Geology, Economics, History, American Studies, Art, Architecture, English, Political Science, Sociology and Anthropology, Religion . . . . Some are sort of only generically relevant, but some are more obviously specifically relevant–Geology of National Parks, Global Change Biology, Economics of Natural Resources and the Environment, American Environmental History, Global Environmental Politics and Policy, and so on.
And then some are specifically in ES, but I’d say the majority are actually courses listed in other departments. So that’s Carleton’s approach.
Here is a roughly equivalent page for Hamilton:
They also have a significant number of courses listed in other departments, but interestingly they seem to have more cross-listed courses. And overall it seems to me like at Hamilton, one of those specifically relevant courses is either more likely to be listed as an ES course, or at least cross-listed.
In the end I think this is a good exercise, but I am not sure the actual count of what courses are listed in what departments matters too much. I would more suggest just looking through the classes and seeing what sounds interesting.
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I think frequency of the class is very valid point. At LACS sometimes there is only one instructor for the course. That instructor leaves and the course disappears. Sometimes some courses are given once and never again.
This is what my DD experiences at Rhodes. I am not saying it is like that at Carleton or Hamilton but if there is a way to see what classes were offered in what semester over last 2 -3 years you may have eye opening experience. For example, students at Rhodes were waiting for some class for 3 semesters, it was announced and canceled…
To address deficiency another section of different class was added. Students will still graduate but they will not be able to study that one particular class they were waiting for so long.
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Both of these colleges are LACs. It is likely that neither college offers the same courses every year, every semester, or every trimester. It’s honestly not really a problem because the student can find a different course of interest, or take it another time, or petition to get into the class if needed, etc… Not much different from a student getting shut out of classes, like at any university. I had one kid at an LAC and one at a university. Classes also get cancelled at universities. Students can easily work around these issues.
Carleton offers the trimester system, of which this student must be aware. Some students love this system and it can be very fast paced. One advantage is that students will feel as though they are taking more classes in a trimester calendar because they will most likely take 9 classes a year. In a typical semester based system like Hamilton, students will take 8 classes a year.
Both colleges will be academically demanding and both are HIGHLY regarded. I can’t imagine that any employer is going to think that one is not as good as the other.
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I said unified because I had heard there is a divide between the light side and the dark side of campus and I was wondering how accurate that was.
I don’t know if it answers your question but those I have known to recently attend Carleton have said its reputation for a highly collaborative atmosphere and friendly community are very well-earned. It places near the top of lists on alumni giving rate and has unusually high attendance at alumni weekends because their alumni are more likely to have very positive memories of and ongoing connections with their college.
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Re dark side and light side, I’m not sure that is so accurate these days. When you’re on campus, there is a different feel to each side, but Hamilton has a very high retention rate of 92%, while Carleton’s is 95%. Both are excellent numbers though. Happy students return.
As with quarks, Hamilton’s campus indeed has been described with colors, or at least shades. In Hamilton’s case these are light, dark and, to further stimulate your imagination, grey. An individual student can — and likely, will — take classes, live and dine in all of these areas. If you like variety in atmosphere, you will be free, for example, to have breakfast on the grey side, lunch on the dark side and dinner on the light side. If this sounds gratuitously mysterious, then you can forget the unofficial shades and use the proper names of various buildings. In any case, as an opinion, Hamilton’s spatial variety greatly enhances the college and distinguishes it from its peers. Although not necessary with respect to making a decision as to where to attend, you also may want to consider these aspects in the context of Hamilton’s history, in which a traditional college merged with its innovative coordinate college. Nonetheless, the physical separation between once distinct campuses has long since been softened with intentional transitional architecture, as in this photo:
(Photo credit: Katherine O’Malley)
Seems reasonable, but today’s reality is a bit different. Students are well aware of low acceptance rates for transfers among elite schools, fear losing financial aid/scholarships, and want to believe that things will improve next year. Basically, even unhappy students return determined to tough it out rather than risk losing what they have.
Am also curious if the location of Hamilton feels significantly more isolating than the location of Carleton? I understand Northfield is a larger town than Clinton and easier to walk to.