Caught son with pot again - what to do?

Parent Cafe
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<p>What you have to keep in mind is that you cant make empty threats & you have to make expectations clear upfront.</p>

<p>In CPTs example, I dont know what sorts of consequences would make a difference to a kid who would not acknowledge that he was stealing the car.
I used logical consequences early on, plus I have girls who dont always test the limits as much as boys do & I as I say, my first was so easy, I didnt even develop many skils by the time the 2nd came along.</p>

<p>( of course my first is now making up for lost time & then some :frowning: )</p>

<p>Since there wasnt necessarily clear structure put in place the first time he was caught, it makes it more tricksy. Perhaps use the original therapist as a mediator?</p>

<p>I like my idea of taking a gap year, either for him to find a school in a more liberal area, or to prove to his parents that he can live under their rules- but making it exceedingly clear that there is to be no more use under their roof ( with the recourse of being kicked out if that happens) and that there will be no financial assistance if he finds that indeed his actions have logical consequences when he is away at school could work too.</p>

<p>I dont expect he will be honest, but if it was my kid I would wonder how long he had been self medicating & as he isnt in a state where it is decriminalized, I would be concerned where he was buying it & who from. ( I would also assume that he shares his habit with at least a few of his friends)</p>

<p>I have never heard of heroin being cut into marijuana, as I think that would taste like crap & the same dealer doesnt necessarily sell both, but there are plenty of unethical dealers who will soak their marijuana in all kinds of toxic substances with unpredictable results.</p>

<p>I suspect the parents are reacting emotionally to their rules being disregarded, but since young adults often think they are as mature as it gets :rolleyes:, they might get better compliance if they approach it logically.
If he really needs it to calm his anxiety, there are also other methods that can help with that, even medication if it comes down to it.
Even though there is only a short time before college if he doesnt take a gap year, he could still develop a written plan as to how to cope with stress without using- at least while he is under his parents jurisdiction.</p>

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<p>No, because he disregarded the rules that he agreed to and put his parents at risk.</p>

<p>"It’s called integrity. You said you were going to/not going to do something, and then did the opposite.</p>

<p>That’s a lack of integrity - indicative of a character issue…COULD mean you’re a bad person, in any case, certainly someone not to be trusted and someone who has little regard for others."</p>

<p>A character issue?!? Oh for goodness sake. He’s a 17 year old teen and teens lie to their parents. It’s why so many parents on this board say their kids don’t drink, smoke pot, have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend, when all the statistics point to just the opposite. </p>

<p>I also have a hard time believing none of you ever broke any of your parents rules when you were a teen and I highly doubt that it points to a character issue in you.</p>

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<p>^^^There must be millions of teenagers out there who “are not a good person”. I suspect there are very few of us here who can claim that our teenagers have followed all of our rules, even when breaking them could put us at risk. If you have a teenager that you think has followed all of your rules, I would guess that maybe you don’t know your teenager very well. Teenagers are going to try things- sometimes risky things. The majority of them get it out of their systems sooner of later, their brains fully develop, and they are off to a new things.</p>

<p>We have been through this with one of ours, and I don’t know that anything we did really worked. He just grew out of it. The one thing I will say is that he turned into a very reliable, trustworthy, productive adult. He has integrity! He is a very good person, despite doing some things as a teenager that were not in line with our values or our rules. </p>

<p>The one thing I do worry about when kids are experimenting with drugs is what has already been mentioned- that they are self medicating. If he were mine, I would have him meet with a counselor or therapist if for no other reason than to get another, unbiased opinion. Where does he get his money? Does he have a job or do you give him an allowance? (Sorry if this has already been mentioned). If you are giving him money, you might want to modify that arrangement.</p>

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<p>Is there anyone here who didn’t violate family rules and/or lie to their parents at some point in their adolescence? </p>

<p>And do we all consider ourselves to be bad people?</p>

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<p>Again, I’ve been involved in community services organizations. I’ve gone to large weddings of other families. I’ve seen vast numbers of families from literally all over the world. </p>

<p>At the last non-family wedding, the bride had an uncle who carried around 2 drinks at all times and looked disheveled. I laughed with her and said everyone has at least one. </p>

<p>Where are these families that operate by strict integrity rules where failure means exclusion and banishment? I read about that stuff in the papers - though mostly in the context of religious cults and abuse - but where are they in regular life? </p>

<p>Thinking about it, I did know a family where there were strict rules which had to be adhered to or else … and it became known the father beat his wife and children. </p>

<p>And I guess I’ve known families which demanded - yes demanded - obedience and work. And those families and their kids are as screwed up or more than the rest. </p>

<p>So what exactly is the point of raising children? I thought it was to be a family and teach and encourage and guide and share and laugh and love, not to set up rules and punishments.</p>

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<p>Another thing I note in this discussion is that several have referenced that the OP is dealing with an adult- or someone who is close to being an adult. This assumption always frustrates me! Yes, the OP’s son is almost an adult- legally. But anyone who has read anything about teenagers in recent years must realize that the brains of 17 and 18 year olds are far from adult brains. Studies show that brains do not finish developing until the early 20’s. The National Institute of Mental Health notes about teenagers that “…the parts of the brain involved in emotional responses are fully online, or even more active than in adults, while the parts of the brain involved in keeping emotional, impulsive responses in check are still reaching maturity. Such a changing balance might provide clues to a youthful appetite for novelty, and a tendency to act on impulse—without regard for risk.” Numerous studies reflect the same findings. So while we like to think our young adults have the maturity level to think like we do, many if not most teens will still have many lapses in judgement. It is how we address these lapses that we should be addressing here.</p>

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<p>“Not a good person, IMO, and that’s the issue here.”</p>

<p>“Not a good person because he lied to his parents about pot? Oy.”</p>

<p>totally agree emilybee. this is ridiculous to slap the “not a good person” label on a 17 yr old for not following this parental request. </p>

<p>Lergnom, I love your post. While I completely respect each family’s choice about family rules, those of you who have rigid rules about such things should recognize that your kids may be the ones who are really good at hiding these things because they know they need to. so don’t simply assume that since you haven’t found any glass jars that the same behavior isn’t happening.</p>

<p>my preference is to have an honest relationship with my kids, where they know they can come to me with anything, (and they do) and where my rules are accepted because they respect them, they are meant to protect all. I don’t want my kids to be blindly obedient to me or anyone else.</p>

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<p>In this and other discussions of teen behavior, I have noticed that people on the side of stricter punishments often talk about the lack of respect shown by the teen. While I like respect as much as anybody, I think viewing the situation from that vantage point is problematic, because it makes the conflict about the parent’s needs and feelings, and not those of the teenager the parent is supposed to be raising.</p>

<p>I would also note that those on the side of stricter punishment often have a very black-and-white view of people: you did this bad thing, so you are a bad person, and everything you ever told me (or will tell me in the future) is tainted. I also think that this is not an effective way to deal with a teenager.</p>

<p>I think there is a middle ground here. If this were my kid, I would not subject him to punishment, but to torture: he would have to hear a bunch of lectures from me about the dangers of pot, the health issues, how it could keep him from getting a security clearance, etc., etc., etc. But in deciding whether to send him off to college, I’d look at the totality of the information I had about him–as OP is planning to do–and not just this one issue. I would be monitoring college grades, though–I’d insist that I have access to them.</p>

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<p>Well, I for one never said that I was making any judgment about whether the OPs son was a bad person or anything like that. I guess that I just old-fashioned enough to believe that a) parents, not children, have the right to set the rules that are to be followed in the homes that they maintain for the children and b) that one should teach children that lying and breaking the rules have consequences. I guess I’m just old-fashioned</p>

<p>Clearly, this discussion is useless.</p>

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<p>Agree with emilybee, lergnom, Hunt — I really feel like you have to love your kid through this. Not shun them or write them off because they disobeyed you. </p>

<p>OP – if you want to talk to your son when he might listen, do the old car ride trick (kids will listen when they don’t have to make eye contact). When you do your dorm shopping, don’t go to the Bed&Bath near you – go to the one that’s 45 minutes away – more car time = more talking/listening time.</p>

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<p>I’ve followed this thread with great interest. My college age daughter has a significant medical condition. We have tried every medicine on the market with no relief. What works? Marajuana. While we live in a MM state, it is very strict and her condition does not qualify. I will only let her use it in the house. No driving, not at her friend’s houses. I am VERY conflicted. She needs it, but it is not legal.
I have to say my opinions have changed drastically over the years. And I am very concerned that it is occurring in my house, but I don’t know what else to do.</p>

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<p>Authoritarian households are not old fashioned nor modern, they are just authoritarian and will always be around.
It can work if you have compliant children, but if you have budding scientists who want to know the reasoning and motivation behind your decisions- besides just " because I said so", you may lose compliance as they start to sense their own responsibilty toward developing independent judgement.</p>

<p>I dont think this discussion is useless at all, because it has explored the difficulties of following outdated rules and laws when there is obviously uneven application.
But I can see how someone who feels that it is more important for their children to obey than to develop their ability to make decisions would feel otherwise.</p>

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<p>

For me,I think as a parent there are some things that have to remain unacceptable. Bringing drugs into the home is one of them. No, I wouldn’t throw a kid out in the street for a little pot in the house, but there definitely would be consequences. My older daughter once did something so serious that the consequences were swift and painful, and she never did that thing again. Again, for my family, stomping on that like a bug was important to prevent further such behavior and the natural consequences that would come along with it. The natural consequences would have been life-altering or life-ending. It was our goal to prevent that. I am of the school of thought that mostly a little pot is no big deal, but it can lead to very serious problems. As I’ve posted on another thread, my husband has a nephew who at 19 years old and 5’2 inches tall went to state prison for crimes that came after finding small amounts of pot in his early teens and not being at all concerned about it. His future is pretty much gone, his parents are financially destroyed, and the whole mess over the course of years ruined his siblings’ teen years and left them all without money for college. No, I don’t think that is the usual trajectory and I don’t think lying to parents indicates a lack of integrity or character, but IMO, the lying and bringing drugs into the house does warrant keeping an eye on things and being alert for escalation.</p>

<p>Hunt, I think you have it right about torture. My daughter spent almost a year listening to me randomly freak out and seeing her father cry. Which, I guess, were just natural consequences in a different way.</p>

<p>In our house, my husband and I do set the rules and my kids have known all their lives that we don’t play. If they don’t like the rules, they can make other arrangements when they are legally of age.</p>

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<p>Yes, children do agree to do things, not to do things and then renege. But bear in mind, this issue was important enough that a third party was brought into the picture, a counselor and the issue was put on the table there. This is not an agreement that cups have to be rinsed or that clothes have to be in the hamper or that the bed has to be made. This was something that was enough of a sore point to the parents, not to mention being something that is ILLEGAL, that does bring risks to the parents, so that a counselor is on the scene about this and STILL this kid turns around and brings pot into the house. </p>

<p>Now the kid who stole his parent’s car? Well, he doesn’t think of it a moment as stealing. Yes, he was told he was to ask, and there were scoldings, naggings, reproaches each time he did this without asking and got caught, and yes, he agreed he would ask, but if inconvenient to do so, he’d just take it, figuring the consequences were worth it. If it weren’t for the fact that he had the accident when he was driving it without permission, the parents probably would not have known about him taking it that time and even if they had, the result would have been another “talk”. Water off that duck’s back. But this has opened the eyes of the parents to what an ugly brat they have. Yes, he can be wonderful too, but when he’s there truly believing this is just one of those things and so what that he hadn’t asked…and he really doesn’t get it. Very concerning. </p>

<p>So, it’s not just that the OP’s son did something he was asked not to do, that he agreed he would not do, that it’s illegal, that it puts parents at risk for some things they do not want to have such risks, but that it was serious enough that said parents got a counselor and this is a major issue, AND HE STILL BROUGHT THE POT HOME. I don’t see why anyone here sees this as not a big deal. Change some of the situation, and, yes, I can agree. But with all that was said and done by all parties, and he still disregarded all of this for something that was totally within control? Something not right with the morals of the kid, and yes, that is a serious problem, in my opinion.</p>

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<p>Dkitty, in your situation, however you internally feel about the pot, you and your daughter have come to an arrangement/agreement about it. Whatever the opinions and facts are about the dangers both legal and healthwise about this are not what is being discussed, here but that a child is breaching an agreement. If you came home and found a pot party with your DD"s friend’s partaking would be a whole other story, and yes, these sort of things happen. I don’t know how many very upset parents I know who found out that their kids were sharing/selling their ADD or other type of meds to others. I know of two alone who were expelled by their schools for dealing drugs, which was providing prescribed meds to others who were not on the prescription. And I remember my son arguing that his friend who got into trouble some years ago was not a dealer because he wasn’t making any money on the drugs he gave others. These kids don’t get it. But back to the point, there are times when you are faced with the fact that your kids manner are not there. </p>

<p>Friends of ours were so upset when their younger kids told them that they were uncomfortable with their older brother having sex with his girlfriend in the house. Apparently, the young man had no concerns about the feelings of others and was flagrent with no regard to who was around. Not good enough that he was trusted to have said girlfriend in the house , in his room. Some common sense and discretion was needed here, but the kid didn’t have it and when confronted,actually became hostile. In the last 15 years, I’ve seen a lot of very hurt parents when it finally hits them in the face that their kids are boors and not good people. They know better. They just don’t think it’s important enough to observe certain rules of etiquette, keep agreements, be sensitive to others. </p>

<p>So, yes, I’d be very concerned if a kid of mine who was told in no uncertain terms that pot is not allowed in the house, and that we are all going to counseling over the use of pot and the counselor is also in on this agreement that it does not come into the house, and within a short period of time, I find he brought pot into the house.</p>

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<p>

EMM1, this was your first post in this thread. It’s a prime example of what I’m talking about–it’s about you, and your feelings, not about your kid’s best interests. As others have noted, this is a style of parenting followed by many, and perhaps it’s effective for some people. But it sees problems in terms of conflict, personal affront, and respect. Indeed, you make it clear that it’s not “about” whether the kid is depressed or not. Why would you think your need to keep something from being put “in your face” is more important than whether your child is depressed or not?</p>

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<p>Obviously, the mental health of my kids is paramount, but I have always told them that I am an actual human being. I have feelings that can be hurt, I make mistakes, and all the other things that human beings do. I don’t generally expect my kids to hurt my feelings or treat me with disrespect. Because I don’t do that to them. I have raised them from birth to place great value on kindness and courtesy. It really is out of the norm in our particular household for people to be unkind or disrespectful to each other. With the caveat that my son is only 14 and is still completely a work in progress. But he is a kind, if sloppy, work in progress. Especially to his little mommy whom he has to care for and protect.</p>

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<p>I hear you, ZM, and I feel the same way, mostly. But I’ve observed in myself that sometimes when my kid does something wrong, there can be a bit too much of “How can you have done that to me” when it really doesn’t have much to do with me. In the OP’s case, given how the rest of the kid’s behavior is described, it’s hard for me to see this bad behavior as primarily an affront to the parents. It is one, of course, but I just don’t think that’s primarily what it is.</p>

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<p>I see your point Hunt, but bringing something into the house against the parents’ wishes is about them, too.</p>

<p>One of the only fights I ever had with my oldest daughter was over that exact issue.
She brought a chinchilla in a monster-sized cage into my house when we had told her explicitly no pets. But it was in danger of homelessness, so she snuck it in and managed to keep it hidden for a few weeks. I went absolutely insane for the exact reason that I expect rules to be followed unless otherwise discussed.</p>

<p>I’m not sure we’ve ever had a rule against pot, though. I would put that on my personal “don’t ask, don’t tell” list. But if it were to be found at some future time, I would then ban it and expect the ban to be honored.</p>

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<p>Now I’m back, and now I’m mad. You know nothing about my house, you know nothing about my children and nothing about my relationship with my children. I think that it is quite remarkable that the people on this thread who have expressed the most touchy-feely views about parenting are the quickest to express fill in the blank judgments about those who disagree with them. But in any event, I will restate the premises for my basic position</p>

<ol>
<li><p>In order for a household to not be chaotic, the household has to have rules. The parents have to be the ultimate authority that sets those rules. Depending on the situation, the parents may or may not discuss the rules with the children before they are established, but the parents remain the ultimate authority.</p></li>
<li><p>One of our most important duties as parents is to prepare children to function in the world as adults. Lesson no. 1 is that actions have consequences. If you break the rules and get caught, you are in trouble. If you lie to your boss and get caught, you are in trouble. Etc.</p></li>
<li><p>This was not a case where the kid broke an arbitrary (wear yellow on Tuesday) or relatively unimportant (wash out your glass) rule. It was an important rule about which the parents appropriately felt strongly about, whether you agree with them or not. The rationale for the rule was explained, and the kid agreed not to break it. Moreover, even before the explanation, it was the kind of rule that the kid knew or should have known was in place even before it was made explicit. Nonetheless, the kid brought the drugs into the house the first time (something every kid knows will get him into trouble if caught) and carefully and rationally warned, lied, and got caught again.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This situation falls under the Super Chicken principle–you knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred (I know, I’m showing my age). You ultimately do the child no favor if you go all soft and mushy on him in this situation.</p>