CC and privacy

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Currently, there are two threads on the cafe that are raising some pointed, complicated issues about online privacy and our expectations when we post. </p>

<p>One parent has asked for general advice about a situation where she chooses not to divulge all the specifics; in the other case, we are reeling from the death of a long-time member and debating how much information we are entitled to about her IRL life as well as what we are entitled to do with her online postings.</p>

<p>I am finding myself very fidgety and uncomfortable as I read these threads, probably because I have been blithely posting away without ever really sitting down to ascertain what I believe about these issues. Certainly, we all feel we need to caution and guide our kids about online privacy, giving away information, and all the rest of it. I think I would also be wary of my child forming an intense online relationship with someone they have never met – and yet some of us feel that way about people who post here. </p>

<p>In my own case, I am getting the uncomfortable feeling that I may have to let go of CC and put more energy into the real relationships around me (not that I don’t now, but to re-affirm to myself that those are the important things and that I really don’t “know” anyone on CC.) I feel like I need to say a prayer for LTS and let her go. I don’t know that I should be giving advice to anyone I don’t really know. I just feel vaguely disturbed about our whole enterprise.</p>

<p>Any thoughts or feelings from anyone else?</p>

2

<p>I think there’s a big difference between a naive young person forming an intense on-line relationship with someone they’ve never met – someone who could be a sexual predator – and a mature adult doing the same. Certainly, mature adults do form unwise on-line relationships, but the same thing can happen in real life. </p>

<p>It’s important for everyone to realize that no matter where they are posting on-line – even on sites in which they think they can control who reads their postings – anything they post could be traced back to them. If the technology doesn’t exist yet to do so, it more than likely will exist in the near future.</p>

<p>Consequently, one should be careful.</p>

3

<p>If someone has a moderate online presence, figuring out who they really are is possible with a moderate amount of work. That’s on the legal side. On the illegal side, it’s probably much less work.</p>

4

<p>At least on the parent boards, the “friendships” we form on CC are just that - friendships. They are not started with the idea of becoming an intense romantic or exclusive bond, and for the most part there is no intention of meeting in real life. For those who do realize they live near each other and meet, I see those friendships as being similar to any other friendships we form because of a common interest. I think that is very different from online dating sites, or young people who form intense online relationships. </p>

<p>As for giving advice to people we don’t know… well, they’re here asking for advice. I have asked for advice on CC, and sorted thru the posted replies to find the ones that made sense to me, ignoring the ones that didn’t work because the poster didn’t understand the whole situation correctly. I’ve found a lot of insights here, and different ways of looking at things. As long as I remember to take things with a grain of salt, because I don’t REALLY know the person giving the advice, it can be very useful.</p>

<p>But on the other hand, CC is a REALLY addicting way to procrastinate…</p>

5

<p>dbwes,
I think there is a real risk to spending anonymous time with strangers–whether they be real folks on a forum or “friends” from a TV show. (Ever notice how intimately connected some people feel with soap opera or sitcom characters?) We can begin to deceive ourselves that we have deep relationships with these people when in reality we don’t. If we were to take ill, they wouldn’t come visit us, and if we wanted to go out for coffee and a chat, we couldn’t call and invite them.</p>

<p>I also agree with Lafalum that there is a risk to taking personal advice from people when we know nothing of the details of their own lives. What if they aren’t actually people of integrity, for example? (Have you ever asked for marital advice from someone, only to find out a few months later that the person him/herself was getting a divorce?) Yet, I do think that in cases of more factual advice on practical matters we can usually sort through to find the wheat and throw away the chaff. </p>

<p>I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that CC is important to me. There are an awful lot of really smart, broadly experienced people who post on here, and you can almost always find someone who is willing to discuss a topic of interest to you. In real life, I don’t know that many really smart people who have time to answer my questions and respond to my comments. And college talk is a topic that really bores most people. So, good or bad, I think I’m here to stay for a while.</p>

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<p>Privacy - Just assume that what you post in any public way, including email, myspace, facebook, etc. isn’t 100% private. You should also assume it wouldn’t be that difficult for your college student to figure out your online moniker if they were to try. My kids know mine but I don’t post anything that I wouldn’t willingly show them.</p>

<p>Advice - Many posters come here seeking advice about all sorts of things like particular college attributes, difficulty of admission, the best toaster to buy, where they should go if they’re visiting Rome, etc. Some other posters are seeking more personal advice. In all cases they usually get a broad spectrum of responses and they can use that info as they wish. Feedback from a number of advice-seeking posters indicates that they often find the feedback useful or at least thought-provoking.</p>

<p>Opinion - There are also plenty of ‘opinion’ threads that tend to be political or philosphical. I guess people use these to express their opinions, vent, state their case, and occasionally lash out at the opposing view. I don’t see any harm in this and it can be amusing since very seldom will any poster change their opinion based on any of the voluminous postings of a different viewpoint.</p>

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<p>Like dbwes, I too have been questioning my own involvement and posts on CC. I have tried to be careful about giving too many details about my DD or myself, but it really wouldn’t take much for someone to know who we are AND it would take no effort for my DD to recognize me. </p>

<p>I know I would not really want my daughter to read all of my posts. I haven’t said anything terrible about her, but she would feel, even in the relative anonymity of this forum, that I had been disloyal to her at times. Maybe and off-hand crack, or revealing something she would not reveal, etc. If something happened to me I would NOT want my D to read all of my posts - now if someone could put together a collection of just my wise remarks (short list), that might be okay - but things I wrote believing I would never be outed. </p>

<p>Thanks Dbwes for starting this thread. It gave me something very important to think about.</p>

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<p>Many people on here (and other forums) know exactly who I am and who my kids are. For the most part, the plusses WAY outweigh the negatives. My son is not a fan of my sharing so much information, but I have gotten so many benefits and have been able to be of service to others by doing so. I give and I get back. Every now and then it backfires- someone posted a newspaper article one of my family members had written along with the family member’s name and a nasty comment. The Mods removed it immediately. </p>

<p>In this era of electronic communication, it is not surprising to me that we get attached to our online communities. I don’t think it is a bad thing. I have met several people from CC in real life, and also people from one of my athletic forums. As has been noted, you have quite a bit in common with those who choose to frequent special interest forums.</p>

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<p>As someone who has been part of numerous online communities over the years–from the early AOL to Salon’s Table Talk to Altdotlife to CancerCompass, to name just a few–I have seen the whole spectrum of behaviors and relationships online. My observations:</p>

<p>1) You’re NEVER as anonymous or as difficult to track down as you think you are. </p>

<p>A good Googler with stalker tendencies can use small cues and facts that you’ve dropped to identify you from surprisingly little data. For example, in one place on this board I might mention my state; another that I work for a particular organization; in another I might refer to my job description. Presto! Those dots connect easily, and if my employer has an online directory (which they do), I’m identified. Even little things, like the name of a restaurant or store you frequent, can tell an observant reader which town you live in. </p>

<p>You are especially easy to track across cyberspace if you use the same/similar screen name in all the online haunts you frequent, if you use the same photo of your kid/dog/self as an avatar icon, or if you don’t hide your email address when you register on discussion boards. I once recognized a co-worker’s wife on a women’s discussion board because she used the same photo of their new baby that he’d sent out to the department as a baby announcement. As a result, I know wayyyyyyyyy more about their marital life than either of them would ever have shared with me in person.</p>

<p>Even life anecdotes may be more identifying than you think, because you never know who from your “real life” is hanging out on a public discussion board or happening across your blog. I’ve lost count of how many online friends have been shocked that someone they were ranting about on their blog or in a discussion board post SAW that rant and could identify them from it.</p>

<p>2) You’re more vulnerable than you think. </p>

<p>If you post about your problems, emotions, heartfelt dreams, etc., on the internet, you are vulnerable to con artists and emotional vampires. Sharing like that can be a really good and therapeutic thing, especially if you don’t have real-life confidantes you trust. But it can also leave you susceptible to manipulation.</p>

<p>A good friend of mine, who is well into the age of Old Enough to Know Better, was absolutely shocked when I pointed out to her that her blog posts revealed that A) she was lonely, B) she was vulnerable, and C) she had just come into a big lump sum of money. “Do you really want to tell the whole world that?” I asked. “But it doesn’t matter!” she protested. “I don’t use my real name on my blog!” “No,” I said, “but you mention what city you live in and what dating website you use, and the photo you use on the dating site is the same photo you use on your blog. How hard would it be for someone to use that information to get a date with you?”</p>

<p>3) You can’t assume anyone is who/what/where they claim to be. </p>

<p>People invent personas online, sometimes for trollish and disruptive purposes, sometimes to create drama in a boring life, sometimes just to be someone they wish they could be. Men pose as women, teenagers as adults, pedophiles as children, healthy people as dying ones (and vice versa), marrieds as single, poor as rich. Heck, people create personas just to have somebody to agree with and admire their other personas! (See: sock puppets.) And sometimes they are doing these things to exploit the emotions or money or bodies of others. </p>

<p>I’ve known entire online communities to take up a collection for a “friend” who has posted about her desperate financial troubles. Are the troubles real? Is the friend real? Who knows? They’re real enough to make people open their wallets. All I can say is, if a tale of woe sounds a little too well scripted…get some real-life proof or keep your wallet in your pocket.</p>

<p>Here’s a really extreme example, in which an emotional vampire strung someone along for no discernible motive:
[LA</a> Weekly - News - The Life and Death of Jesse James - Josh Olson - The Essential Online Resource for Los Angeles](<a href=“http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/the-life-and-death-of-jesse-james/17427/]LA”>http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/the-life-and-death-of-jesse-james/17427/)</p>

<p>4) Online friends are more “real” to some people than others.</p>

<p>To some netizens, other people online are just words on a screen. To others, they are as real as a person seated across the table. Every online community contains both kinds, and they are talking to (at) one another all the time. Unfortunately, nobody carries labels identifying them, so the We Are All Real people mix with the I Am Real, You Are Imaginary people–and guess which ones get hurt?</p>

<p>I used to dive into online communities heart & soul, especially when I was a stay-at-home mom with little adult interaction during the day. But now I’m older and wiser and the veteran of way too many flame wars, so these days it’s mostly my head, not my heart or soul, that goes online. I still think the web is a great resource. But when I start spending more time nurturing online relationships than face-to-face ones, I know it’s time to turn off the computer and invite some friends over for dinner.</p>

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<p>^^^ Great post, lunitari.</p>

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<p>

Haha! Yes, but that’s a whole 'nother issue!</p>

<p>

It’s funny because my family knows my screenname, and I’ve even occasionally sent them links to threads. However, fortunately for me, they can’t imagine what I find interesting here, and they don’t seem to have any desire to read what I’ve posted. I am one of those people who tends to be very transparent. I’m that way in real life, too, and it gets me into trouble all the time. </p>

<p>I was telling S2 that we had been discussing breakup situations with our kids on cc and shared something that someone said. I neglected to mention that I had started the thread and told the whole sad story of S1’s breakup and even told the world he was acting crazy. I’m transparent, not stupid…well, I mean that I’m not stupid enough to admit doing that, but I guess I am stupid enough to have done it. Even with me just saying that “we were discussing our kids’ breakups”, S2 was horrified. “You posted about that online?!” he said. I brushed it off saying, “It’s totally anonymous!” He was unconvinced. So, stuff like that could get me in big trouble; however, if I died, I don’t think I’d mind my family reading all of it. Like worknprogress, I’d rather they just read the wonderful pearls of wisdom I had dispensed, but they know how I am and if they read it all, they would undoubtedly roll their eyes and say, “Yep, that’s Mom…giving out too much information as usual.” :)</p>

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<p>dbwes asks a question I have considered. I’ve often thought about the irony between some of the information I’ve posted here and what I tell my children not to post online. Sometimes there are posts about posters meeting each other IRL. I wonder what I would do if someone proposed that. </p>

<p>Recently I became aware that another CC poster and I shared a common background experience. After a few questions and pms that indicated to me this person really did have that background, with a leap of faith, I identified myself to this person. I’m a bit surprised I never met this poster IRL given the background we share. I think the poster is also. I don’t know if we will ever meet IRL, or what I would do if asked, but at the end of the day it was nice to remember that it really is a small world. </p>

<p>I try to be careful not to post specific info about my job, my H’s job, or other additional bits of info that might allow someone to figure out who I am. If I feel it necessary to divulge that info, I do it privately. There is a career and major that is frequently asked about on CC that I know quite a bit about. I choose not to answer those posts. There is some info about my children I won’t post publically (maybe via PM). I try to be careful, but at times it’s easy to forget. That person on the other side of the computer seems so friendly and helpful. </p>

<p>There have been several posts that made me very uncomfortable. A recent cafe post from a seemingly desperate young woman comes to mind. Honestly part of me said ■■■■■, part of me thought suicidal. I now think I subconsciously choose not to post. For me turning it off was the easiest thing to do in the situation. To become involved in the post would have taken too much emotional energy. </p>

<p>In general I think most of us try to offer advice based upon our experiences and knowledge. As our society has become more mobile I think many of us no longer have the large support systems people of previous generations did. Online communities have become that support system and sounding board.<br>
I know that at various points in my life I’ve visited a variety of forums as a semi-regular participant. I’ve seen/read a lot. At times online communities have filled a void for me. I grow tired of many after awhile. Maybe I’ll grow tired of CC. I don’t know. </p>

<p>I do think online communities will be a great source for researchers for many years to come. I can just imagine all the questions…</p>

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<p>Another online group that I’m affiliated with had an in-person get-together for a week. This was several hundred people and I was incredibly impressed with everyone that I met. I’m sure that I’d had some heated arguments with some of these folks in the past but an in-person meeting probably means that I won’t have the same tone of arguments in the future.</p>

14

<p>I am having lunch with some people I posted with from another board tomorrow. </p>

<p>I suppose I have thought about preserving my anonymity and decided the benefits outweigh the risks. I feel I am not that important to be noticed or threatened or stalked.</p>

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<p>lunitari – what a great post. You make some excellent points. Once, I recognized a poster that went to high school with one of my kids, that was sort of eye opening. And I realized that someone from my community could easily recognize me from some of the things I’ve posted. I think I posted some things that my kids would probably find a little embarassing too, in the past, and decided that I was talking too much about them on line. Well, what’s done is done, but I am a bit more discreet now than I used to be about what I say about them, to be sure.</p>

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<p>I think Lafalum has it right-as long as you intend on JUST being friends, I don’t really see a problem.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, there is one young woman who I have known for about 4 years now. She may possibly know more about me than some of my “real life” friends do. Call me naive or unwise if you wish, but I am also friends on MySpace and Facebook with this young woman (yes, I do understand that this guarantees nothing).</p>

<p>By the same token, I would NEVER go to meet her alone (aside from the fact that she lives in eastern Canada and I live in California). Were I to meet her, it would be in a public place, and I would most likely take someone with me. I trust her, and we know quite a bit about each other…but you can never be too careful when dealing with internet “friends”.</p>

<p>I also think, like lunitari said, that it’s important not to value your online relationships more than your “real” ones…and I feel (maybe even somewhat arrogantly) that I’ve done a good job of this.</p>

<p>In fact, the young woman I’m referring to and myself will frequently tell the other, “G2G, hanging out with friends,” and quickly sign off.</p>

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<p>Returning to CC after nearly three weeks of moving-related computer inaccessibility…. </p>

<p>I am going to weigh in on this issue, because (for reasons I decline to state) my family and I have profound privacy issues.</p>

<p>I have owned a computer for just five years, and during that time, I have joined only two Internet forums. (CC is the second of these forums.) I joined each forum with reluctance, and for a compelling reason: to acquire information I could not obtain elsewhere. When I joined these two forums, I read their respective terms of service and privacy policies carefully; it was my responsibility to do so, and I have taken this responsibility seriously. Therefore, I have worded my posts carefully, disclosing non-identifiable information about myself, my daughter, and others with whom my daughter and/or I are (or have been) personally or professionally acquainted. Only my daughter and her other parent know that I am a member of these two forums; they know my forum screennames, and therefore, they are free to read anything and everything I post.</p>

<p>I have noticed that some CC members–both students and parents–are more mindful of personal privacy than others. As BCEagle91 pointed out, some forum members have disclosed specific information about themselves which has left them vulnerable to personal identification. (I know this for a fact.) Regardless, all current and former CC members had an equal opportunity to read, understand, and agree to CC’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy before deciding to join CC. The contents of CC posts–and personal privacy–are each member’s own responsibility.</p>

<p>With regard to CC friendships: I am among those CC members who did not join CC for the purpose of developing online “friendships.” I would not enter into such a friendship; however, friendships between and among other CC members can and do develop. Such friendships (of varying degrees of intensity) are a matter of individual choice and personal responsibility. I am of the opinion that online friendships are “real” relationships, even if the online friends have never met and never expect to meet face-to-face.</p>

<p>With regard to one of the Parent Caf</p>

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<p>It’s really important that people examine what they put out there in the public domain, because some people think the internet is more anonymous than it really is. I realized that (and was horrified) after a woman stopped me in the grocery store to say she “recognized” my on line persona.</p>

<p>I too developed some friendships on-line, but not ones that were able to withstand the test of time, except one, whom I have met in-person. I have seen people pour enormous time and effort into on-line relationships, often thinking they were as “real” as flesh and blood relationships. But they clearly aren’t, because typing out carefully chosen words is not a real “conversation”. A conversation relies on nuance and facial expression and hand gestures, and a whole lot of non-verbals that cannot be conveyed on an internet chatboard.</p>

<p>Like Lunitari, when I found myself thinking too much about on-line people and/or situations, I realized it was time to focus more on my “real” life and less on the internet. I think it is a little sad to pour so much energy into anonymous relationships, although I do understand the lure, having been there myself.</p>

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<p>I sometimes cringe at the depth of exposure in some posts and I have identified one person from my small community based on info that was given here and if I had the interest could research and find others. (I don’t have the interest). I would not solicit help from an online community if faced with a personal crisis, but can understand that for some it may be the only (or first) source of help. There are compassionate, knowledgeable posters who DO respond to those posts (Northstarmom comes to mind).</p>

<p>I would never/ever post about my child’s breakups or personal life. I wouldn’t post about my own, either. I do not post things that I wouldn’t mind my family reading, although I don’t share this with them. </p>

<p>I do think this forum is invaluable for advice on the whole college admissions process by allowing us to swap opinions, tips, etc. Knowledge is power.</p>

20

<p>If I could start over, I’d probably reveal much less than I have. However, my whole family knows I post, and all have benefitted, so in that sense, it’s not a problem.</p>

<p>Another board I post occasionally on requires me to use my real name. They say, if you don’t want your name revealed, don’t post. It’s actually a bit of a deterrent for me to post too much, but I think that’s sometimes a good thing. It keeps the postings generally positive in tone, and objective in content, and probably more factual overall.</p>

<p>Admittedly, though, I have learned a lot here from folks’ candid, honest opinions.</p>