So my high achieving kids were rejected from all the really hard to get into mid size ivy type schools but did get into Wake, William and Mary, Rochester and many nescacs. Hopefully the op gets one of his/her first choices but my kids did not. Some kids apply only to reach and safety. I think it is important to cover the middle a bit which can feel hard to find with strong students.
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Is UCM really the university she wants to attend as a safety? Or is it the default ELC campus so she really would only apply to Oregon and Arizona + Honors ?
Have you visited either of those with honors tours?
Because the list is quite reachy, she would need to really like these two.
Fordham is quite different from them, too - seconding Santa Clara or LMU if she likes Fordham. Holy Cross in MA is topnotch for Humanities.
Wrt AZ ask about the cuts - those tend to affect Humanities first so what is the impact for Fall 2024 or beyond (change in size of freshman writing class&of intro courses, number of upper level classes offered…)?
At public universities beside UCLA/UCB, look into the Honors college - check out the website Public Universities Honors.
Why not look into Kenyon, Denison, Dickinson, Hamilton, Skidmore, Grinnell, Macalester, Bates, or Davidson? All of those would be excellent for Humanities and all have different “vibes” so 1-2may be a good fit.
Or is a large university a key criterion - I noticed UVA is listed but not William&Mary.
Since you have no financial constraints, applying ED to her favorite university would make sense.
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Not to go on a whole long digression, but I feel like in certain circles this alone is a big source of anxiety in admissions. What not even that long ago used to be Target/Match schools for the high numbers kids looking at the most desired colleges markets like Boston, New York, and SoCal now have acceptance rates under 15%, or even under 10%. I do think there are viable alternatives, meaning great colleges and universities, sometimes not in those markets, that remain Targets for high numbers kids. But it may require going out of established family comfort zones in some cases.
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If you would like to explore further ideas, this site offers 50 college suggestions based purely on an ACT score of 34:
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Thanks for the university honors link! Yeah, small liberal arts colleges are not an option. Period.
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I’m seeing that more and more. Because kids - mainly girls - with extraordinary ECs and great grades gamble with no EDs (despite having the means) and only RD at a ton of great schools and then are left with only disappointment. Yes, everyone ends up in the right place for them, and if it’s not the right place, they can transfer, but the first time around can be tough.
I hear you!!!
I’m not sure that’s a gamble if the student has no clear favorite. In fact, I think in that case ED’ing somewhere would be the real gamble. Many students aren’t ready to commit until they see what their options are and it would suck to get locked in somewhere and potentially miss out on a better offer. This is particularly true for CA residents who may want to see their UC/CSU options before committing somewhere, which would be impossible if they ED. If they get their ED, then they must withdraw all of their UC/CSU applications and will never know what they might have gotten and if it might have been a better option than their ED. I honestly think ED’ing a good idea for a fairly small minority of students who are really certain about where they want to be most of all (and can afford it).
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A couple months ago I took a look at Tulane’s most recent CDS. Their ED acceptance rate was quite high (like 75%…) while their RD rate was in the single digits. Double-check me if you want to, but it’s the largest ED/RD discrepancy I can recall of any of the schools I’ve researched in any year.
So for a top applicant, Tulane is either a near-safety or a reach.
ETA: I checked their 23-24 CDS, and these are the results:
ED: 1193/1752 accepted = 68.1%
RD: 2884/26184 = 11%
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This is just poor list management and nothing else.
There is no reason that kids should be shut out.
You have to build a list - and it must include one, preferably two affordable and assured admits.
These schools are out there in all shapes and sizes.
Some kids thumb their noses at them - and end up with nothing. And guess what - there’s not a state flagship in this country and likely the same could be said for regional schools - that don’t have Ivy level caliber students on their campus.
There’s a reason that when you look at professional grad schools - law, mba, what have you - at the top schools - they have students from more than 100 colleges, etc…because those really smart kids who could get into grad school, went to different colleges of all shapes and sizes.
There is no reason for kids to get shut out - but kids do get shut out because they don’t know how to build a list.
That was the same 10 or 20 years ago and it will be the same in 10-20 years from now.
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A need aware school that likes $$$$$
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Yep
Yes, this is getting down in the weeds, but if you are worried about the current RD acceptance rates of the schools on your list, and maybe also about yield protection in a few cases, I think the main solution is to find Likelies and Targets that would be really exciting for you, for which you are well-qualified, and that don’t have such low RD acceptance rates.
Again, with the way acceptance rates have crashed downward in various markets in recent years, this may require broadening your pool of potential Targets and indeed Likelies in some cases. But if you do all that you will likely end up with some great choices.
If all the necessary factors then align behind an ED I option, ED II, or both, great. But if not, fine.
Where I get very nervous for kids is when they basically seem to be substituting ED for actually coming up with those great Targets and Likelies. There is so much risk that simply will not work, indeed ED acceptance rates have ALSO been going down a lot of places, with some colleges also adopting policies of rejecting more in place of pointless deferrals. So to me that is not usually a substitute for a great Likely/Target list.
Now obviously you can often see what happens with ED I before actually applying RD (although in some cases you would be well-advised to apply EA or by some priority merit deadline). But even when waiting until RD, that time goes by fast, and I think people are well-advised to have done most of the work in identifying that list, and indeed if practical to start some of those applications.
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Yeah, a lot of what you say rings true, but this absolutely wasn’t the case 10 and especially 20 years ago. This is an issue of a baby boom around 2005. The UC system gets 50,000 more applicants today than from 10 years ago.
These are good weeds! Thanks!
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I grew up in San Diego.
It was true in the mid 80s and it is today. And will be tomorrow.
It’s more noted today because college admissions has been made into an industry and social media/the internet has helped guide that.
You give me a profile, things you like, and a budget and I promise there’s a safety and affordable name out there.
But too many kids want UCLA but not Merced. It’s off putting to them.
Or UM but not C Michigan, etc.
Or Pomona but not U of Pacific
It’s no different than it’s always been.
List management is an art. But not many are willing to put forth the effort or are willing to attend a name they feel is beneath them.
In that case, it’s their own fault.
Many, fortunately, choose safeties over reaches. Those kids have less stress.
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Yes, many UCs are Exhibit A for colleges that have gotten way more rejective/reachy in very recent years (very recent at least by my standards). Of course California has a really deep list of very good publics, including the CSUs. But I totally get why a bunch of California families are feeling a little shocked about what counts as a Likely or Target for them these days.
For what it is worth, though, I don’t think this is a zero sum game. Meaning I think a lot of colleges and universities have actually gotten substantively “better” since I was applying. More student-oriented resources, nicer campuses, deeper and more diverse faculties and undergrad programs, sometimes improved international standing, and so on. A college friend of mine with a D24 and I were discussing all this, and he pointed out we arguably went to our fancy college at like the worst point in history for going to a fancy college! And it was hard to dispute what he was pointing out.
Of course some individual institutions have had some sort of a resource crisis, various specific programs have been cut, and so on. But I think that overall, at least almost all the ones people here talk about are also substantially improved.
And so while this can be a tough sell to some families really looking for exclusivity, I think when you are forced to look at that wider pool for Targets and Likelies these days, you are not necessarily losing anything from the alternatives you would have been using for those application slots back in the day. Indeed, I think it is so much easier to investigate and discuss colleges online these days that if anything it is easier to find a really special fit, including possibly financially AND also other stuff the individual kid might really value.
So while I totally understand the anxiety and sometimes shock, I also think there is a cure, namely to just really embrace all the potentially exciting opportunities that you might not have even heard about before.
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I just can’t agree with a lot of this. I’m sorry.
This is so well-put - thoughtful, compassionate, and hopeful.
Different schools have changed in competitiveness. For example, when I graduated HS with a sub 3 GPA, I got into a UC I couldn’t sniff today, BU, and others. Those schools today would not be reachable.
But that’s the point - it’s not a question of what’s gotten more competitive. It’s a question of understanding where you fit in the entire system.
My one kid with the 4.5 and 34 ACt I was 15 for 15 in guessing (he was 13/15 in acceptances).
My daughter 16/21 I thought. She got into 17. I guessed rejection at W&L and I was wrong.
When you look at all the factors - forget the school name - when you look at what they want, who they take, etc - it’s not that hard to build a list.
But when someone says my dream school is such and such and it’s got a 10% or less acceptance, they’re not going to end up happy.
You can disagree - you’re allowed.
But my belief is that the school name or increased or decreased competitiveness doesn’t matter if you know how to build that list.
Good luck to you.
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