Chance Me: CO resident, 3.37 UW; 34 ACT; English on Pre-Med track

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US citizen
  • State/Location of residency: Colorado (Denver area)
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Private Christian high school
  • Other special factors: N/A

Cost Constraints / Budget
None

Intended Major(s): English

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.37
  • Weighted HS GPA: 3.73 (4.0 scale)
  • Class Rank: N/A
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 34 ACT (26 Math, 36 English, 36 Reading, 36 Science)

List your HS coursework

  • English: Honors English 9, Honors English 10, AP Lang., AP Lit.
  • Math: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus
  • Science: Honors Biology, Honors Chemistry, Biotechnology, Honors Physics, AP Biology, DC Anatomy
  • History and social studies: Honors World and the West, APUSH, AP Micro./Macro., DC U.S. Government, DC European History
  • Language other than English: Chinese/Mandarin (Simplified); Novice I, Intermediate I, Advanced I, AP (Current)
  • Visual or performing arts: Drawing and Painting I, Ceramics I
  • Other academic courses: The Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ, In the Steps of Paul (Biblical Leadership), DC New Testament, DC Old Testament, Senior Bible: Endorsement Capstone

Awards

AP Scholar with Honor (International, 11)

National Honors Society (National 10, 11, 12)

College Board National Recognition Program (National, 11)

Extracurriculars
Community Service (Volunteer)

Team Member

International and local service trips (155 hours); worked with local outreach partners, built houses and a church, and assisted in a medical clinic.

Athletics: JV/Varsity

Outdoor Track, Varsity Athlete, Track and Field

Varsity middle distance (400/800m); Academic All State Hon. Mention; 2 years varsity (expected 3rd).

Other Club/Activity

Co-President, Hiking Club

Co-President, Hiking Club (26 members, growing); found a sponsor, recruited peers (doubled members), organized meetings and hikes, etc.

Athletics: JV/Varsity

Cross-country, Junior Varsity/Varsity Athlete

Junior Varsity (Freshman/Junior years), Varsity (Sophomore); competed in in-state/out-of state meets, League/Regional meets; mentored underclassmen.

Athletics: Club

Track and field, Athlete

Club Track and Field athlete (3 years); competed in 400m/800m in indoor/outdoor, both in-state/out of state; trained with other schools/athletes.

Career Oriented

Pre-Health Sciences Club Member

Pre-Health Club; attended meetings, workshops, seminars, etc. Continue exploring careers/opportunities and skills in healthcare.

Other Club/Activity

Member, Suture Club

Member (Suture Club); practiced suturing and clinical skills, seminars; tutored members on specific sutures, applied skills in mission work.

Work (Paid)

Lifeguard

First-year lifeguard; monitored swimmer safety, maintained pool, worked holidays; developed leadership/initiative and teamwork. Hours varied weekly.

Essays/LORs/Other
Essays: I love my essay topics, but have a nagging “iffiness” about the essays themselves; particularly concerning for a school like Chicago, where essays mean everything.

Schools

  • Extremely Likely: University of Denver (RD), University of Colorado Boulder (RD)
  • Likely: Creighton University (RD), Bentley University (RD), University of Tampa (RD)
  • Toss-up: Syracuse University, New York University (if EDII), Tulane University (if EDII)
  • Lower Probability: Villanova University (EA), University of Washing (RD)
  • Low Probability: *Cornell University (RD), **University of Chicago (EDI)
    UChicago is undoubtedly my dream school, but I am worried that my GPA is at risk of sinking my application; to compensate, I think my essays need to be really good, but as I said before, I have a nagging anxiety about them (though I love my topics). Would love some advice about my application/chances, and appreciate any help! Thanks so much!
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Forgot to add my LORs: I have two, both of which I think (haven’t seen them) should be be very good, from a Social Studies teacher and a Science teacher I also have international mission experience with.

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I see two big problems with both Cornell and Chicago.

One problem is that I do not see you getting accepted with a 3.37 high school GPA. I just do not see how either would even be possible. I do not believe that ECs or essays can make up for a low GPA for these two universities.

The other problem might actually be even more important. Premed classes are tough at pretty much any university. They will most likely be even tougher at Chicago and Cornell. Imagine walking into a premed class at either of these schools. Look to the left of you. Look to the right of you. You are surrounded by other premed students some of whom have never had a B in their life, and many of whom, probably most of whom, have only had one or two B’s in their life. Based on your high school GPA it appears that you are not ready to compete with these students in the toughest premed classes.

My personal recommendation is that for your bachelor’s degree just forget about both Chicago and Cornell.

I do not think that NYU would be all that much different. I do not think that it is a “toss-up” even with ED2. I think that it is unlikely. I think that it would also be full of very strong students in tough premed classes.

If you are serious about premed, then you need to budget for a full 8 years of university. It would be a very good idea if you can to save money by attending an affordable university for your bachelor’s degree. As such find out what Villanova and U. Washington are likely to cost you. If they will cost significantly more than your in-state options then drop them. I would say the same for your other out of state public options. For the private schools on your list run the NPCs and see what they are likely to cost (unless you know that you will be full cost, in which case you might just drop them from the list unless your parents are okay spending something close to $900,000 before they call you “doctor”).

I would be tempted to add Colorado State given that you are in-state and I do not believe that UC Boulder is really going to be a safety for you. Colorado State has one feature that it has one of the very best DVM programs in the world (ranked second in North America, actually just ahead of Cornell for veterinary medicine). This suggests that there will be a lot of very strong pre-vet students at CSU, and the required pre-vet classes are the same as the required premed classes. You would be competing with these pre-vet students for grades in premed/pre-vet classes, but you would not be competing with them for clinical shadowing opportunities since they will be looking for veterinary clinical shadowing opportunities.

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I agree with most of this other than I think Boulder is definitely a likely for this student, in state applying to English. But an app to CSU is still a good idea.

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You go to a private school. They can give you more insights.

Why Bentley? They have English but it’s a school with an overall business focus. Seems odd.

You have a few things going for you. Colorado and a willingness to pay $90k plus a year.

I’d say unlikely to Bentley but given the major and full pay from Colorado- maybe. Unlikely to SU and no to NYU/Tulane.

No to lower probability.

Want to be in a city it sounds like? Look at College of Charleston (Charieston and New Orleans have similarity) and maybe VCU. UMN could be a big flagship worth a go. But C of C is uber urban. You can try for Honors

Good luck.

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If you would like a reach, perhaps consider Kenyon, which offers a superb English literature program along with solid biology, chemistry, physics and math departments for premed coursework.

Based on your background, Hillsdale also may be of interest.

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Not all private schools are focused on college apps, particularly religious-based ones.

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I’m sure they collect data and stats though. It’s a marketing tool to be competitive.

At least they should ask / try and work with a counselor. If they don’t have that info, well at least they asked.

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I don’t know about this student’s school but I do know of religious schools where they absolutely don’t focus on “competitive” because it’s about the religion rather than attracting students on other bases.
TL;DR - if the student has come here for advice let’s be constructive rather than telling them to go ask someone whose level of insight we don’t know.

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What about colleges with a solid core curriculum, such as Jesuit colleges or colleges with a similar tradition, though less selective than UChicago?
For instance, if you’re a girl, St Kate’s in Minneapolis St Paul, would be a safety.
Illinois Wesleyan, in Bloomington, is likely, and Loyola Chicago is a good target where you’d have a shot at being invited to their Honors program.
St Olaf, a reach but your ACT would help you. The Enduring Questions program would likely interest you.
On the West Coast, varying degrees of selectivity, wondering if Loyola LA, St Mary’s of CA, or Santa Clara might suit, or perhaps Pepperdine (more religious than the previous) ?
On the East Coast, Fordham in NYC (reach), Loyola Maryland (target) (in addition to Villanova which is a high reach?)

Likely: University of Denver, University of Colorado Boulder for English, Creighton University

Odd ones out:
Bentley University = business college, neither good for English nor Premed
University of Tampa = would likely lack rigor and focus, nor sure why it’s on the list - if you want a smaller college in Florida, Eckerd (topnotch science) and Rollins would both be better academically.

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Exactly

Every time someone is at a private, people suggest they talk to their counselor. If they don’t add value, then so be it.

And I was very constructive in my initial response.

Thank you.

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Congratulations on a strong academic record and ECs. I agree with the others about your list; there are other schools you could apply to that will provide a better experience and pre-med preparation than most of the schools on your current list.

Of your current list, I think Creighton is a terrific choice. Very strong pre-med prep and they have their own medical school. It is a likely for you. I’m a doctor and I have many excellent colleagues who went to Creighton.

Since you are interested in New Orleans, I would suggest adding XULA (Xavier University of Louisiana) if you are open to an HBCU. Absolutely outstanding pre-med education, and they are opening their own medical school. It’s in a consortium with Tulane, so you can cross register for classes there. Loyola New Orleans is also in the consortium and its campus literally adjoins Tulane’s. Both of these schools would be in the “likely” category for you and you would get into honors/get merit money.

Agree with those who suggest Fordham (Rose Hill campus) if you like NYU. It’s in NYC and has a big core (similar to U Chicago.) They just got a huge donation to build all new science buildings, so are looking for STEM students. It would be a match or high match I think.

Remember that for pre-med education, the important thing is not a famous name, it’s all about excellent classes and strong student supports.

Best wishes to you!

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Since we know nothing about the OP’s school, let’s neither make assumptions about the quality of their college counselors nor debate those assumptions

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I agree that your GPA may limit you at some schools. I know how hard it is to get a strong GPA, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not capable.

I would speak with your school counselor just to ask about where former alumni, with a similar GPA, have been accepted.

If you really want to “do medicine”, I suggest that you start at your instate universities. The minute you go on campus, find your academic tutoring center.

When our eldest was planning to study medicine, that was the first thing that was recommended to her, by my friends, who were physicians.

They advised her that if she wanted to maintain her “A” average, then she needed to go to tutoring.

She already was a A student, but the university level of instruction and material covered, was completely different-it was harder, more tedious and very rapid.

This is why the posters here are telling you that your GPA is going to affect your admission.

The universities don’t want you to fail. If you fail, they fail. A number of students who typically, get A’s, are shocked and surprised when they receive C’s and D’s in the freshman year of college. It’s not that they don’t know the material, it’s that going away to school is very different.

In combination with learning how to live with others, and organizing your study habits, a lot of emotional factors affect your studies.

Our daughter was taught how to organize her studies to be efficient and rapid. This daughter eventually became a tutor in engineering and CS.

So I would suggest you make sure you apply to your in-state universities and a few other affordable options out of state because you’re going to be in school a long expensive time if you plan on doing medicine.

Also, I would hold off on “suturing” because you’re not a physician and that can be dangerous and risky to the patient, regardless of whether they’re not in the same country. Also, a lot of people would consider it unethical for a high school student to be doing that during a church sponsored trip.

I know I would be VERY uncomfortable if any of my children did that as an underaged, non-physician volunteer. Our middle daughter did go to medical school and that would’ve been a big no-no and red flag for her Medical school.

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Admissions personnel evaluate people in the context of their schools, so it’s always hard to get great feedback on a forum such as this where we know little about your school. The GPA does give pause unless you go to an extremely grade deflation-oriented school which would be known to an AO. I’m also a bit curious on whether there is a trend among your math/science grades vs humanities - particularly with a 26 in math on the ACT. The science section of the ACT is essentially reading comprehension so doesn’t really give a good sense of STEM aptitude.

If you’re on the Pre-Med track, even with an English major, you’ll be taking A LOT of science and math and need a strong foundation. A lot of premed students choose different paths when they start really exploring things in college (and/or hit orgo) so it wouldn’t be unusual at all to choose a new path, but it may impact what will be a good fit for undergrad. Best of luck to you.

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I’m still confused by Bentley. Is it because it’s in the Boston area and you want to be there and you think it’s the easiest in? You are required to do a business minor - the school is set up for business.

I’m guessing you want to be urban, hence suggestions in my first post.

Suffolk might be that school in Boston.

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Very true. Both daughters have talked about how tough some of the premed classes are. One for example mentioned that in the first premed-oriented science class that she had (freshman year biology for biology majors) the first mid-term had a class average in the mid 40’s. I think that this was intended as a wake up call (and getting this wake up call early freshman year was probably a favor for many of the students).

Different students seem to react in different ways when they hit these tough premed classes. Some study harder and get through them. Some pick a different path. Some just breeze through really tough classes and seem to take to it (and even some of these decide that they want to do something else for their career).

Different students also seem to find different premed classes challenging. Some for example might find math and physics tough, and some might find math and physics to be solid A’s that help to make up for B’s in organic chemistry. We each just need to try it and find out what we are good at.

I think that there may be at least three reasons for students to pick a different path. Some students cannot keep a medical-school-worthy GPA in the tough premed classes. However many just find something else that they would rather do. There are lots of other options and you will be exposed to some of them in university (such as biomedical lab research as one possibility). Also, when students get into a serious level of medical shadowing / experience they might just decide that it is not for them. There are lots of other career options, some biomedical and some not.

One daughter referred to organic chemistry as “the most difficult B- that I ever had in my life”. She was in the “work even harder when classes get tough” group. Then she got to her DVM program and said that on average each class was just as hard as organic chemistry. This was a long and difficult path that she did succeed in. Now she is a vet and loves it. I do not think that an MD or DO would be any easier compared to a DVM (although the patients will be different).

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As a general proposition, you might want to check out the Common Data Sets for the respective schools you are considering, specifically with regard to Sections C7 and C9-C11; these sections give information about recently matriculated students at the school in question, and might allow you to make a rough estimate of your chances for admission.

In addition to some of the other schools you have listed, perhaps take a look into the University of Iowa: it has a well-regarded program in English and Creative Writing, here, Bachelor of Arts in English and Creative Writing; and you should also be able to get a good education in the sciences there as well.

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Yes, and one thing that can be particularly illuminating in the CDS is the class rank figures. I know you say that your school doesn’t rank, but I’d imagine that you and your counselor have a sense of whether you’re a top student relative to your school, or not; and your counselor recommendation will reflect this. At UChicago, for example, 96% of incoming students are in the top 10% of their high school class, and 99% are in the top 25%. We can also assume that many of the 4% who aren’t top-10% are recruited athletes or otherwise “hooked” applicants. Is your school so grade-deflated that a 3.37 is still top 10%? If not, I would be pessimistic about UChicago and similar schools.

And as others have said, beating the odds and getting into such a school might really not position you well to get the grades you’ll need in premed classes. Playing the long game here means doing your undergrad somewhere that you can hit the ground running and get better grades than you got in high school. As has also been mentioned, playing the long game budget-wise is smart too, since med school is very expensive and loan limits are becoming more restrictive.

What kind of aspiring English major are you? Do you mostly want to study literature, or do you have a particular interest in creative writing, persuasive writing/rhetoric, or…?

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Pepperdine came to mind for me too. Seems aligned with the religious coursework taken in HS. Very supportive premed advising with good outcomes. The English major offers both a literature emphasis and a writing/rhetoric emphasis. Acceptance rate is 63%, with a 3.61 median GPA and 30 median ACT, so it seems attainable. Potentially a good fit.

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