1410 SAT Superscored (720 math, 690 english)
By the time I graduate hs: 15 AP’s, 12 D.E. (mostly business and finance classes)
A few honors classes that are business related.
GPA: Unw: 3.9/4.0 W: 4.6/5.0
I had one C in D.E. biology but it was my first one and I had one B in AP Hug but it was my first AP. I had A’s in everything else though.
Class Rank: 38/495
Decent EC’s: Research, V sports captain, internship over junior and this summer (2 summers, same company), 150+ volunteer hours at a meaningful organization to me, club officers in a few clubs, and a member of a few honor societies.
Demographics:
Hispanic Male (Cuba) (nothing ties to this anywhere in my application)
Florida resident
Middle class
Competitive Public School
2nd gen
I’m interested in applying for business, finance or econ.
Schools:
Dartmouth (possible ed)
Duke (possible ed)
UVA
Wake Forest
Notre Dame
UF
FSU
UCF
There are a few kids in my grade committed to dartmouth, duke, and wake at my school (2 to each school). I just want to know if I shouldn’t waste my time applying ed to any of these schools
What math class will you have senior year? Do you have 4 years of each of the core subject areas (Eng, Science (including bio/chem/physics), Soc studies, Math, and foreign language?) What is your class rank (approximate it if you don’t know/or if your school doesn’t report it.)
Note that Wake Forest and UVA have secondary admission to their business schools, which is competitive entry and holistic in the application review.
What is your annual college budget/what can your parents contribute each year? Run the net price calculators with all your parents at each school on your list to make sure they are affordable. Here’s Dartmouth’s: Net Price Calculator
Note the NPCs may not be accurate if your parents are divorced, own a business and/or own real estate beyond a primary home…are any of those the case for you?
You need at least one affordable safety…I assume that’s UCF for you?
I assume you mean as recruited athletes? If so, don’t let these commits impact your decision making…they are in a different pool than you.
I would recommend you work this in the app somewhere.
Freshman year:
AP HUG
Geometry + Algebra 1 honors (Summer and School year)
Physical Science Honors
Accounting 1 honors
Spanish 1 and 2 (2 courses in one year)
P.E.
English 1 Honors
Soph:
AP Psych (Summer)
AP Art Hist
AP Pre-Calc
AP World
Algebra 2 Honors (Summer)
D.E. Bio
D.E. Chem
D.E. College Planning
Accounting 2 Honors
Junior:
AP Stat
Ap US hist
APES
International Business Honors
5 D.E. Business Classes
D.E. English 101 and 102 (semester classes)
Senior schedule
AP Physics
AP Lit
AP Calc AB
AP Macro
AP Micro
AP Comparitve Gov
AP US Gov
2 D.E. business classes
Business Law Honors
I have BrightFutures which allows me to go to any public florida school for free if I get in. I have a few more safetys but I’m not worried about getting into those. Do you think I stand a chance of applying ED to Dartmouth or Duke
Class rank got to competitive and that was the minimum language requirement. Most kids in the top 10% stopped unless they could skip to the AP language (Only a few were allowed because they were fluent)
You have a business-heavy course load, yet neither of these two schools have an undergraduate business or finance major. For liberal arts type schools, no language beyond freshman year could be a weakness. The one C grade is also an issue. That said, the best way to answer your question may be gathering some intel on the stats of the students at your HS that did get into these schools (rank, GPA, course load, etc.) Similarly, how does your SAT score compare to those in your class and those who were accepted to these schools (Naviance scattergram)?
I know dartmouth is econ. But I would possibly do a modified major of econ with a focus on something business related. Duke has a minor in finance and I have a friend their who switched majors and said that the minor in finance makes it feel like a real business program. They also take a few classes at the fuqua schol of business there.
First, only apply ED to any school if the NPC looks affordable. Both of these schools are high reaches. The C in DE bio is a disadvantage, as is having a foreign language only thru level 2 and only in freshman year. It doesn’t matter at all that most students in your class didn’t take many foreign language courses.
What is your approximate class rank?
How does your HS counselor categorize the schools on your list, and what do they think about Duke/Dartmouth ED chances?
It’s tricky because you don’t yet know if you even like econ. Econ is not like studying business/finance/accounting. At all. You have to have a plan B major if you go to a school that doesn’t have a business major in case the quantitative and theoretical nature of econ is not for you. What are your career goals? (I know they could very well change, which of course is ok!)
My parents are able to afford all of the schools. The D.E. Bio was my first D.E. class and I was not fully prepared for it, especially since I didn’t have any bio experience prior to taking the class. My class rank is 38/500, but it is likely to get to about 30 after this semester is finalized. My counselor thinks that this is the best chance I have because I don’t have a “hook” or anything really unique. I know econ is very different from business and finance. I took a tedx intro to econ (non-credit) and enjoyed it. But again, I would try and do a modified major at dartmouth. My career goal is to either go into private equity, but my parents think I should do investment banking for a few years, but it’s so competitive and demanding. I don’t want my full life sucked away like that. But I will know which jobs I like once I do a few internships in college.
you are obviously a smart, dediated student and I am sure you will land somewhere good!
Having only 1 year (even if 2 levels) of a second language is going to be very problematic at some of these schools (regardless of what is normal at your school). Dartmouth recommends 4 years: https://www.dartmouth.edu/oir/pdfs/cds_2024-2025.pdf Wesleyan (as a proxy for selective private schools) publishes data that something like 80% of their enrolled students have taken 4 years of a language. That is pretty standard at highly selective schools. Also Dartmouth has a language requirement (others may too) are you up for that? You will need to do 3 terms. I am less familiar with the state schools, but you should check their required/recommended lists.
Are kids at your HS are often taking BC (or higher) math? Given you want economics, Calc AB may hurt you IF (IF!) other kids are doing BC and it is offered at your school.. if they don’t offer it, or only 4 kids get to take it or something, then less of an issue for sure!
I don’t know numbers offhand, but Dartmouth has already published their first year of non-test optional data, so you should see where your SAT fits in.
I know top schools have language requirements, or recommended number of years, but my high school only has 1 AP Spanish class because most kids don’t reach it (because the 3 standard Spanish’s hurt everyone’s gpa). I went to private school all the way up to high school and I had to take Spanish every year and knew it already in high school. My parents speak Spanish and I can understand some of it. I’m not fluent though. Would this help at all?
Only about 40 out of 500 kids take calc bc. The reason I took AP Stat was because I would not be able to take AP Physics next year without it (according to my school). My school does offer a double block of Calc AB for the first part of the year, and then Calc BC for the second part. I can do that, but my counselor said colleges will think I am cramming random AP’s.
Overall this is very good. However, this is low for Dartmouth College and for Duke.
Again, this is very good, but might be low for Dartmouth and Duke.
The first time that you take an AP class it is going to be more challenging than what you are used to. The first time that you take a DE class it is going to be more challenging than what you are used to.
For an incoming student at Dartmouth or Duke, the classes are going to be in many cases significant more challenging than what they are used to.
And these students, or maybe the top half or top 1/4 of them, might be average students at top schools such as Dartmouth College or Duke.
Internships are quite valuable. Finding out what work environment is right for you is one of the reasons that internships are valuable.
I think that you are doing very well. I think that you have a good mix of schools on your list and are likely to get multiple acceptances.
Mostly I think that you should think carefully about whether Dartmouth College or Duke would be a good fit for you. Generally speaking highly ranked universities are a lot of work, are very academically demanding, and you need to want to do it. The desire to work that hard should come from inside the student themselves. Don’t do it to please your parents, or because you think that you should. If you attend a top university at this level, do it because you want to do it, and because you want to show yourself that you can do it.
One option is to apply EA or RD to each school on your list, wait to get your acceptances and financial offers, and then decide where you want to go.
Thanks for your insights. I know Duke is still test optional so I would maybe go test optional there. Dartmouth still has not released SAT stats for the class of 2029, only that all admitted students’ scores were in the top 25% of their schools.
The kids in Calc BC (at least at my school), don’t take a lot of AP’s (I don’t know why?). There is only one BC teacher at my school and people say it is really hard. I’m not sure if I would be able to take it because of my schedule already and I don’t want to try and cram the information because then I won’t do well on the AP exam.
I know top colleges are going to be more challenging than normal high school classes. I agree that I should weigh in my options when I get in to any school, but I need to know where I’m applying ED. I toured both schools and loved them and would really enjoy both. Both have a great alumni network, good job placements, great in-college opportunities, etc.
I just want to try and increase my odds of getting into one of them, but I would prefer dartmouth. I know both schools are super competitive when it comes to admissions and there’s no guarantee or easy way in, I just want to know which school I would have a better chance of getting into ED.
To be very blunt, I do not think a student with your profile (or really most profiles) is likely to get any sort of ED “boost” at colleges like Dartmouth or Duke. I think for that to be plausible, you would need to pick an ED school where your profile was more competitive than their normal admittee who enrolled, and that has a habit of waitlisting or even rejecting such applicants when it thinks they won’t yield if they apply non-binding.
Given that, you could just choose whichever you like best, assuming they are both affordable. Or choose a different ED college where it might more plausibly help, but then you would have to go there even if you might still have a chance at somewhere you prefer . . . which again is plausibly why it might actually help.
I understand what you’re saying. I know at dartmouth and duke, most ed acceptances are athletes, legacies, and generally qualified students. I was thinking, maybe I could get in (very unlikely though), or deferred. If I’m deferred, I can have a good LOCI that could slightly help my application. Applying ED could also show them that I want to go there as my top option, which could help me if I am deferred or waitlisted.
I am also considering UVA and WF possibly for ed, but I am not 100% certain I would want to commit there when I could possibly go to a better school I like more. I like UVA and WF, I’m just not in love with them like Dartmouth and Duke. You can see I put some of my ecs up top. I have a few more average ones and some local and state competition awards, but no big national awards. My counselor says that Dartmouth cares about essays and LOR’s and that could offset a few lower parts of my application.
Would I even stand some sort of chance at all if I apply ED to dartmouth or duke? I know I’m not as nearly competitive as the other applicants, but it could help a little bit. What do you think?
Your essays and LoRs are not likely to compensate for the lack of foreign language, C grade, and number of business classes at the most rejective schools.
Does your HS use Naviance or Scoir where you can see scattergrams of past acceptances?
No one here can say what chance you have at any school as we can’t see your entire app, nor do we know it in the context of your HS, or in the application pool at any given school.
If you would forever wonder ‘what if’ if you don’t apply to Dartmouth ED, then do so. Just have a balanced list of schools that you do apply to, including at least one affordable safety/highly likely. Make sure to apply EA to all the schools on your list that offer it.
Private equity is also competitive and demanding. At schools like Duke and Dartmouth it will be competitive to be in the correct business clubs, competitive for interviews, competitive for internships. Classmates who have the same goals as you will be hustling from Day 1 freshman year to try and get these opportunities. You don’t have to answer here, but give some thought to the type of environment you want to spend four years of college in. Any additional thoughts for OP @catcherinthetoast?
@Mwfan1921 I think you nailed it. Your parents seem informed.
Aspiring to private equity (at a reputable firm) straight out of undergrad is extremely daunting and unlikely unless a lot goes right. Analogous to saying you want to go straight to playing for the Yankees bypassing triple A training (IB). Yes IBers (like me) are deservedly being referenced to as minor league players😀
Most PE firms don’t have formal training programs so they tend to gravitate when recruiting undergraduates towards very specific relevant backgrounds and truly exceptional students. They tend to fill in their junior ranks by picking off talented IB analysts who have gotten a few years of relevant training and deal experience.
Please don’t interpret my comments to suggest IB recruitment is that much easier or less competitive. As detailed by MWFAN getting an IB analyst role requires effort, achievement and some luck starting day one on campus. Even at target schools most don’t get bids.
Not saying any of this is unachievable for you, just suggesting you level set your expectations, and don’t seek to “plan” your future based on career opportunities that unfortunately aren’t predictable. Perhaps the most unfortunate or unfair aspect of these sorts of careers is the near term requirement to prepare, commit and go after them so early juxtaposed against the reality that all that effort in many (if not most cases) doesn’t lead to the desired career opportunity. The flip side is that all that prep has intrinsic value that is leveragable in many future careers.
If you have any specific IB questions happy to try and answer and good luck.
Again, I’ll be very blunt. Your profile seems to me a little short of competitive for the most selective colleges like Duke and Dartmouth. I also am not sure they even make sense for you. To me, you look like someone who should maybe be targeting some really good undergrad business schools. And if they think the same (that you are not a great fit), you may not get very far in their process.
But there is no big harm in EDing one of these colleges if you really want to, assuming they are comfortably affordable.