The student just completed his junior year in h.s. No hook, but he’s a warm, social person with good interpersonal skills – frequently complimented by people in other generations for his conversational skills. I’m hoping that might shine through somewhere in the application process.
Demographics
US domestic
Oregon suburb city
Public high school
Other special factors: none
Cost Constraints / Budget All colleges in the list below have been run through NPC and appear within affordable range.
Intended Major(s) Computer science, small possibility of a business minor.
GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
Unweighted HS GPA: 3.90
Weighted HS GPA: unknown
Class Rank: not provided by h.s.
ACT/SAT Scores: none
List your HS coursework
English: Intro to Lit, International Lit, American Lit
Math: Geometry, Honors Algebra, AP Pre-calculus
Science: Intro to Comp Sci, Physical Science & Technology, Chemistry, Physics, AP Computer Science Principles, Health science
History and social studies: International studies, AP US History
Language other than English: German 1, German 2
Visual or performing arts: Photography
Other academic courses: Woodworking
Awards None
Extracurriculars Track - 1 year
Robotics - 3 years
Chess club - 2 years
Badminton club - 3 years
Essays/LORs/Other T.B.D.
Schools under consideration
Likelies (>70% odds):
OSU
U. of Puget Sound
Willamette U.
Target (35% - 70% odds):
RIT
Lawrence
Beloit
Bard
Union
Bennington
Clark U.
St. Olaf
Brandeis
Whitman
Connecticut College
Reach (20-35% odds):
Oberlin
Macalester
Bucknell
Reed
Skidmore
Carlton
Far reach (0-20% odds):
Denison
Grinnell
“Chance me”, please! Specifically:
(1) Do the odds listed above seem right? Would you change any based on this particular student?
(2) Thinking maybe try ED at Carleton. Is that too much of a reach?
Denison’s acceptance rate has dropped below Carleton’s (17% vs. 20%), but accepted student stats are Carleton are significantly higher (4.1/1510/34 vs. 3.77/1320/29). For a given student, I’d still say Carleton is more of a reach than Denison. If it’s your son’s true first choice, ED at Carleton could be worth a try, but if you’re just trying to pick an ED school based on an appropriate level of “reachiness,” I’m not sure it hits the sweet spot. St Olaf is strong for CS and also has cross-registration with Carleton - how does he feel about St. O?
Are you considering any WUE schools? Cal Poly Humboldt, for example, is PNW-adjacent and mid-sized (around 6000 undergrads) - a STEM-leaning school without going as big as OSU or even RIT… and COA with the WUE discount is around 33K/year. They offer first-year learning communities based on major, including one for math/CS/software engineering/data science/geospatial sciences. Representing Realities | Cal Poly Humboldt
You’ve got both RIT and Clark on the list; the school in the Venn diagram overlap between those two is WPI - have you considered it? It’s smaller than RIT, might be a good fit if they give enough aid.
Good luck to him - you’ve got a nice, balanced list so I’m sure he’ll have good options. With LAC’s you’ll want to look at course offerings for CS (not just what’s in the catalog, but how often those classes are actually offered) and whether there are any issues with access to CS classes.
Is there some reason why this student has not taken the SAT or ACT?
And is this the same student you have inquired about in a bunch of previous threads. While those were not chance me match me, you did receive some good suggestions.
While you state all are affordable, I do think budget comes into play as many of these schools are need aware. If your budget is $50K, I don’t think it matters. If it’s $20K, it does.
I also find some on the list - odd - for example, sure Bard has CS but I wouldn’t think of it for CS and I don’t believe they offer undergraduate business classes although you may double check that.
Will the student take Calc senior year? I think it may matter.
My guess is Lawrence, Beloit, Bennington and St. Olaf belong in the easier to get in group. The others seem right - and some of it will depend on budget - if you’re full need, as an example, it can push them down.
I think Carleton is a reach that belongs in the far reach column and Denison in the reach. The student quality is superior.
So I think you’re on the right path although I don’t see this a proper list, especially if seeking a business background as well. Some of them but not all.
Carleton has a domestic acceptance rate of 38.4% - I factored out international, which per CDS was 132 of 3290. About 2/3 submitted a test with a 1500 SAT and 34 ACT. 77% were in the top 10% and 94% in the top 25%.
Denison actually has a much lower acceptance rate, factoring out internationals, at just under 30%. But only 44% submit a test and the average is a 1360 SAT and 31 ACT. Only 45% were in the top 10%.
I do think Carleton has a higher ilk of student. But all that said, whether you want to call each a reach or super reach - it doesn’t matter. One needs those assured and affordable schools on their list - and neither of these are assured for that. In fact, for a need aware school, dependent upon level of need, it may be none - but perhaps that’s why they have Oregon State on the list. They can also do a pre-read at Whitman.
That’s heartening, actually! I thought it was more like 20%. Denison at 30% is good too.
The schools that gave very favorable NPC estimates were, in order of decreasing acceptance rates (to the best of my knowledge):
EDIT: I realized I can Google “acceptance rates for domestic out-of-state students for [college]” and its “AI Overview” gives estimates, so am inserting them below. Also inserting ED % from same method:
Lawrence (Dom 83%) (ED 78.6%)
Union (Dom 43%) (ED 50-53%)
St Olaf (Dom 52%) (ED 55-64%)
Brandeis (Dom 56%) (ED 42%)
Connecticut (Dom 37%) (ED 40-41%)
Macalester (Dom n/a, but likely close to the overall rate of 28%) (ED 39%)
Skidmore (Dom n/a, but likely close to the overall rate of 21%) (ED %49)
Denison (Dom n/a, but @tsbna44 reports 30%) (ED 27%)
Bates (Dom n/a) (ED 27-42%)
Grinnell (Dom n/a) (ED 33-48%)
And the student himself actually places a lot of weight on low cost over reputation. He also values a peaceful and safe environment, and is (so far) a bit turned off by campuses surrounded by gritty, urban environments. (But his views are/can evolve.)
Re: business minor – it’s not a really well established interest. Just a hazy intuition.
Q: how can I calculate the “domestic only” acceptance rates? I guess I need to download this “CDS” dataset somewhere, and crunch my own numbers? Is there an easier way?
Some NPCs won’t show merit. You might find a merit school cheaper than need if that matters to you. Schools like Susquehanna, Allegheny, Kalamazoo and more.
If you go to a CDS, look at section C1 and hand calculate - the in and out of state. Most your list needs you a lot more than you need them. So in my opinion, you’ll be fine. The bigger issue, to me, would be are the CS offerings extensive enough vs, for instance, an RHIT.
This is Beloit. Very few get turned down - and I would surmise your student is well over the borderline…well over.
Can people please estimate what my student’s odds are at Carleton for ED? Current UW GPA is 3.9 and this semester he’s taking AP Calc, AP Comp Sci and AP Gov. No test. CDS says domestic admit is 38% but I wonder if my student’s odds are significantly lower given no test, only two years foreign language and not super strong record of math classes.
Hoping crowd sourced wisdom may help us decide to cross it off our list as too much of a reach.
I would swap Carleton and Denison in terms of chances. As TSBNA said, Bard seems to be an odd choice for a kid interested in CS and Business. (at most of the LACs on the list, there is no Business major or minor available, and he would need to scour course catalogs to ensure breadth of econ and business-related electives…)
In addition to the 3 AP’s he’s taking a course called STEAM (play on “STEM”, revolves around science & technology) and Lit. Neither is AP.
No biology.
Thank you.
I would add, my student is not solely focused on getting into the most competitive school he can get into. That’s a consideration but it’s balanced with going where he’s most likely to find people he likes, both peers and faculty. He’s definitely geeky and tech savvy but not the hardcore MIT type who might grind away coding for a week to make new software. He enjoys tech in social settings such as robotics team, group gaming, etc.
