UK Student (US citizen) Applying to LACs, ED advice needed

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Looking for advice on LAC ED strategy:

D27 (assuming that’s application year!) is applying to selective liberal arts colleges in the US (in addition to UK unis). She has strong academics: 10 GSCSs, with 9 scored at top level 9 and one at level 8. Her predicted A levels are: A* History, A* Politics, A English. Not planning to submit SAT. ECs are less exceptional than US students, but heavy involvements with local politics (youth officer for the Labour Party, active canvassing, etc), also a ‘Prefect’ as her HS, worked with youth in debate prep, etc.

Her top schools are Williams, Bowdoin, Amherst and Middlebury. But also applying to Swarthmore, Bates, and Haverford.

She’s a dual national (UK/US—but born and lived here). Also, we’ll probably apply without seeking financial aid. Unfortunately, athletics isn’t her strong suit, and her parents went to Dartmouth, which she is not interested in, so she’ll be unhooked.

With that in mind, do any of you have suggestions for how to navigate ED? She’s visited the schools and doesn’t one clear preference. Loves William’s tutorial system, but less the eclectic architecture. Love Middlebury’s beauty but not enamored with language learning (turned off by UK ed system). Loves Bowdoin’s sense of community engagement. Amherst, had good vibes generally as well but less one standout feature for her.

Also, in looking at the CDS data set, I’ve been shocked to see just how low some of the international acceptance rates are (for those schools that report them). I don’t know if she’d be treated as international in a positive/negative way by admissions committees.

It seems, from reading these boards, that some schools fill up a huge number of slots through athletics and legacies. Of the above ones, any suggestions on which might be worth venturing an ED1 or, if available, an ED2 choice on to better her odds? Thanks!

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As a US citizen educated abroad, I believe she will have her credentials evaluated in her school/country context, but otherwise will not be subject to any sort of International admissions or aid policies. I think the main thing to look out for is making sure she persuades these LACs she understands and values what they do, which doesn’t sound like it should be a problem.

In terms of ED, I don’t think she needs to ED anywhere if she is not sure where she wants to go. She can see what offers she gets, then decide, possibly after visiting as an admitted student if you can swing it. I know some people will point to how many kids some of these colleges ENROLL through the ED process, but that doesn’t mean they only ADMIT kids through ED. And I really don’t believe that if she is a strong candidate for these sorts of colleges generally, she will get into one ED, but not into any of the others RD. Maybe she will get blanked if she is not a strong candidate overall, but then she probably wouldn’t get in ED anyway.

That said, any chance she is willing to maybe consider a slightly less selective LAC? Even just tossing in Bryn Mawr might be a good idea, since she is already applying to the other two out of the three “TriCo” LACs.

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With respect to college selection, this post offers a few subjective impressions:

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Thanks for this—N-U-M, I’ve seen your advice on some other threads and found it very valuable (e.g., your calculus around the Williams ED rate). She’s been in a single-sex HS for her first two years, so strongly prefers co-ed.

I suppose part of my question is whether a slightly less selective school, like Middlebury, might want give precedence to a candidate who goes ED versus RD (assuming she’s a strong enough candidate) or whether it really will wash out in the end through RD and give her a better choice, assuming there is one.

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As a US citizen, she will be treated as a domestic student for admissions. Her schooling will be looked at in context of the country of schooling. I would see the international background as a slight advantage in admissions at a number of colleges as it lends some diversity of experience to the class.

I personally would be hard put to suggest ED if there is no clear preference. Question, in order of her preference, approximately where do these US colleges stack up vs the UK unis she is looking at? In particular, would her top UK option be preferred to any of the US ones?

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Thanks SJ,

The UK system is more straightforward. Oxbridge is a crap-shoot—and she’ll try for Cambridge—but for most of the others if your A levels are at the right level (which hers are predicted to be), you are likely to get in.

As Americans abroad (her mom as a prof here in the UK), we strongly prefer the liberal arts model to the heat-seeking missile of specialisation that happens here in the English unis.

And for the top schools in her list—especially Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams—she/we would be willing to forego finding out what happens with Cambridge. Her UK school counselors seem to be suggesting ED pretty strongly, but that may be because we assumed it would be helpful. (Before I started reading these boards and NotUnparticularMan’s analyses!)

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I would echo others that she should ED to the school she likes the best. I know she has visited, but perhaps they also offer some virtual student panels and other programming that she might take advantage of.

I do tend to think that some of these schools offer an admissions advantage in ED, but it’s not a large advantage. IME, the advantage comes by way of the schools filling some institutional priorities (beyond athletes and such, I am talking about kids with certain activities and/or intended majors and the like) during this round, which naturally means there would be less availability for an RD applicant with whatever profile was filled in the ED round(s).

I wouldn’t necessarily apply to Williams because of the tutorial system. When I was last there, admissions said that about half the students take a tutorial class, and the vast majority of those don’t take a second. They are a lot of work!

I do think the LACs you mentioned are more alike than they are different. Sure they each have their personalities, but the student bodies in a given year can and do change. I do see primarily reachy schools on the list…does she have targets, and at least one highly likely school on the list?

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I am familiar with the UK system (Cambridge postgrad myself). If she would prefer those LACs to Cam then it makes sense to ED to the one she likes best. I would go for that approach rather than trying to strategize which one she’d have the best chance at as at the end of the day I don’t think there is a significant difference in outcomes. The main point is, if she gets in ED somewhere that she doesn’t have any regrets or “what ifs” once she has to commit.

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Thanks, we’ll look to see if there virtual events online. We weren’t able to go to a lecture during the tour.

Given the expense of the US system versus the UK—£10k/year—we’ve only been looking at reachy schools. I think we were hoping some of them—Bates, Haverford—might be more on the highly likely side, but that could be naive. It’s hard to tell as the schools in the UK don’t have as much history of students applying to the US, though hers sends a number of students there (and has at least a few get into Williams recently). I think her counselor has, frankly, been relieved she’s not applying to the usual Ivys, as that tends to be the dominant trend at her school.

One other question: I noticed through the CDS that some schools have a much lower admit % for girls (e.g. Middlebury), while Bowdoin’s female admit % is about the same or a bit higher than male. Should/could that be a factor to consider if she goes ED or I am just reading too much into the data?

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Thanks SJ. That makes a lot of sense. I think, given the slight variations between the schools, she hasn’t had one distinct favourite yet, which is why I’ve gone down the rabbit hole of whether a strategic approach makes sense, though it sounds from the people on this thread that there isn’t a magic bullet.

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So conceivably Middlebury could look at a very strong RD candidate, think she is very likely to get one or more offers she prefers, and preemptively waitlist or even reject her despite wanting her as a student. Applying ED could then prevent them from doing that.

But what if they are right? Like, what she is in fact very likely to get one or more offers she prefers?

If her answer is that isn’t possible, because she loves Middlebury, then ED is a good idea. But if they are likely right, then not so much.

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That’s a significant difference, obviously the US LACs that don’t give merit will be around $100K per year plus travel, health insurance, etc. Finances are so unique to each family, but definitely consider if she might be looking at grad/professional school, how close parents are to retirement, etc.

It’s true many LACs tend to attract more female applicants, so it is a factor to consider IMO. Not the biggest of factors, but just another thing in the mix.

Definitely not highly likely even in the ED round(s). I don’t know if the number of students matters, but Haverford is smaller than some of the other schools on the list (1400-1500, vs 2000ish for a number of the others, and 2800 Middlebury.)

If Middlebury wants a student who has engaged/will continue to engage with the school as OP has, they will admit them.

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Does location of those factor into the conclusion of “slight variation”, or has she been strictly looking at the schools just on their own merits? That might be a differentiator, example the relative isolation of somewhere like Middlebury vs the bigger college town, consortium/cross registration options of an Amherst.

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As a London native, she found the more remote ones (Bowdoin, Williams, Middlebury) more appealing than, say, Amherst. Though clearly Amherst has a lot going for it. Personalitywise, she’s on the more introverted side and very communty-minded, and found some of the schools that made that connection more overtly (e.g. Bowdoin and Bates) to be appealing. That’s partly what’s made the choice harder. Academics at Williams and Amherst super appealing, ‘values’ and/or vibe at Bowdoin/Bates/Middlebury too.

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I’d say you have run through a scenario that could play out. Ultimately, your daughter could forgo the Middlebury option by (1) receiving an ED admission elsewhere or (2) being denied through ED elsewhere and getting denied by Middlebury based on Middlebury’s preference for ED candidates. As an opinion, these contingencies may be too unpredictable for designing a strategy around schools of roughly similar selectivity for any school other than for admission to your daughter’s first choice.

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You are getting really good advice in this thread. As others have said, applying ED won’t be the deciding factor at most of these schools. If I had to recommend an ED strategy based solely on chances of acceptance, I would advise Midd ED1 (takes most of their class through ED rounds, ~1/3 accepted ED) and Bates ED2 (AO actively recommended ED to increase chances of admission in info session last year). I do not find this to be a fulfilling strategy but I understand some do not have a clear favorite and simply want to maximize their chances.

The most likely outcome is that she does not receive an acceptance to any of these top LACs. Why no SAT?

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Thanks. Advice has been very useful. No SAT due to her maths score—and need to prioritise her A Levels (and EPQ essay—which is like a mini-thesis). Verbal was good (760) but math was in lows 600s. In Uk system they only take 3 topics for A levels so having stopped math (she got a 9 in maths at GCSC) she hasn’t focussed on that. With limited time and test optional schools, we thought better to get the best grades rather than bolster the SAT. And for the UK system, the A levels are determinative.

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Regarding ED, I would only apply ED if she has a clear top choice, which apparently is not the case. Otherwise I would not apply ED anywhere.

In terms of general application strategy, all of Williams, Bowdoin, Amherst, and Middlebury are going to be reaches. As you have noted, their admissions rates are very low.

There are however a huge number of very good liberal arts colleges in the US. If she really wants to attend a liberal arts college in the US, then she should also be applying to some that are easier to get accepted to.

As a US citizen, she will be treated as a US citizen. Her application will be evaluated by someone who is familiar with UK grade scales, but then she will be considered as a domestic US applicant.

There are also a few very good small “primarily undergraduate universities” in Canada that are very good. Two good ones in eastern Canada are Mount Allison (in New Brunswick) and Acadia (in Nova Scotia). Both are in very attractive small towns. I can give you more information on both if you want it. Admissions would be way easier compared to schools in the USA, and the total cost of attendance would be way lower unless you qualify for a LOT of financial aid at the US schools. It is definitely possible to complete a bachelor’s degree in Canada and then either work or get a graduate degree in the US.

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That makes sense especially in the context of the UK system. Yes focusing on top grades was the right approach. However, test optional may reflect differently on an affluent applicant vs an underprivileged one. No score is better than a low score, but ideally an applicant who has access to the test would submit a strong score. I would expect her lack of a score to potentially hurt her at all schools minus Bowdoin/Bates who have both been test optional for decades.

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If it were me, I’d add an option like Conn College, Skidmore, etc (there are many others) to the mix. I appreciate that the cost differential vs. UK means that a “reach only” strategy makes sense, but if she agrees with you that the laser focus on a particular course/major is NOT what she wants, and she really wants the luxury or exploration, she may be a little unhappy with her UK choices a year from now.

Most of these “less rejective” colleges are in either suburban or non-urban locations. And I would submit her scores btw…. she is a lopsided applicant and there are a lot of LAC’s who seem perfectly fine with that, especially given her rigor and grades. So the verbal SAT is confirmation of what they suspect, and the math isn’t as bad as it could have been. Net- I think her scores will help her.

Nothing that you’ve posted screams ED. Her “most favored” schools aren’t focused on yield protection, and her “less favored” schools are going to see the whole package and either accept her or waitlist her. I don’t see ED as making much of a difference here to be honest.

I think she is slicing the bologna too thin on the “community minded” orientation btw. There are going to be classmates at ALL of these schools who are focused on their academics and sport, or academics and social life/parties, to the exclusion of all else. And there will also be classmates at all of these who volunteer in the community, are politically active, get appointed to committees on campus to solve whatever big problem is facing the administration that week. If she really wants a strong focus on community minded and values- it might be worth researching Holy Cross or one of the other Catholic schools. But even in a secular environment- some kids care and others don’t and you can’t use that as a sorting stick.

Good luck- she sounds great!

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