Which of these wonderful LACs to choose? Advice desperately needed

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Our daughter is fortunate to be admitted into a great group of liberal arts colleges (and some smaller universities). We’re very proud of her; she’s worked very hard to get here.

She has a two-week Spring Break coming up, and we’re trying to create a shortened list of schools to visit (we wish we could visit them all, but it’s just not feasible). In alphabetical order:

Bard
Carleton
College of William & Mary
Davidson
Denison
Emory
Franklin & Marshall
Grinnell
Hamilton
Kenyon
Occidental
Reed
Wake Forest
Washington & Lee

She doesn’t really know yet what she’d like to pursue academically (hence the exploration-friendly focus on liberal arts schools), other than the fact that most of her interests lie in the humanities – and she loves to read, and write. Writing is probably her greatest strength.

She’s kinda a nerdy band kid, likes Magic the Gathering, Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer 40K, Anime. She also loves to do indoor bouldering/rock-climbing. She wouldn’t be rushing a sorority; she wouldn’t mind the presence of Greek life, as long as it doesn’t dominate the school’s social scene. Weather-wise, she’s good with whatever, even harsh winters.

Cost-wise, she was awarded some merit scholarships but still, the higher-ranked schools generally would cost us more than the lower-ranked schools; it looks like the difference between the cheapest school and the most expensive school is about $100K. But we’ll make it work, for whatever school is the best fit.

Her experience with the Admitted Student Days will ultimately be the deciding factor, but we just can’t visit 14 schools – there’s not enough time, and also many of the Admitted Student Days conflict with each-other.

If anyone has any insight into which of these schools would be a good cultural and academic fit, we would be grateful for any and all advice. Thank you!

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She may want to compare what humanities majors are offered at each school, and the breadth and depth of course offerings in each major of possible interest.

Does cost differ significantly or matter?

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That immediately made me think she might love Carleton or W&M. They are both known as draws for kind, social, not necessarily STEM (although could be), academicky, nerdy types. Grinnell could also be a solid choice. Maybe Kenyon or Bard. But I feel like I am already down the curve a bit from the first two.

ETA: By the way, this is exremely crude, but then you need SOME reason to make a short list, right?

If you google up College Transitions’ Top Feeders to PhD programs, and go to the per capita History list, then off your list, the top 5 are Bard #10, Carleton #12, Grinnell #13, Kenyon #19, and William & Mary #26.

I swear I didn’t look that up before posting my immediate reaction, but at this point I have sort of internalized that sort of information.

Another college on your list and high on a lot of those per capita lists is Reed, but Reed by reputation offers a very specific sort of intensity you would have to want.

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What fantastic choices! Congrats to your daughter!

Like @NiceUnparticularMan said, it would be helpful at this point to have some category for elimination. I suppose you and your daughter might start by asking yourselves some of the following questions:

  • Does ease of travel to/from college matter? Check flights, airports, connections, shuttles between airport and campus, etc. Seems like a small thing, but believe me, you’ll want to know what you’re getting into, even if it doesn’t sway your decision in the end. (This is coming form a parent in Denver whose kid has had some trouble over the years flying back and forth to and from Maine – definitely not enough to make us question the college choice, but enough to be a headache from time to time.)
  • Does rural or urban setting matter? How close will she want to be for a Target (or similar) run? Will she care about nearby restaurants and movies, or other cultural experiences? What are the must-have essentials, and how accessible are they?
  • Campus clubs: lots of campuses will offer opportunities for musicians (even non-majors), D&D, anime clubs, rock-climbing clubs, etc. Maybe eliminate those that don’t. Maybe get in touch with club officers to ask about how active the clubs of interest really are (some might be listed and turn out to be dormant).
  • Are there admitted students Instagram accounts she can follow? Can she do a vibe-check?
  • Read the campus newspaper(s) – does anything there either raise interest or raise questions?
  • Does she want a curriculum that’s more open or more structured? Is an extensive or minimal general studies/core curriculum important, and would the presence or absence of these requirements be a deterrent? Note that an extensive core curriculum might make it harder to double-major, but that may or may not be an issue.
  • If she’s interested in going abroad, what do those opportunities look like? What percentage of students participate in study away/abroad programs?
  • Can she do some virtual visits to narrow it down?
  • Is she familiar with (and partial to or against) any of the regions where these schools are located?
  • Does the housing situation matter, and can you eliminate schools that have less ideal housing arrangements?
  • Can cost help you start crossing schools off the list?

Based on how you describe your kid, and not knowing the answers to the above questions, I would think the following schools could be the best fit: Carleton, W&M, Grinnell, Hamilton, Kenyon, and Occidental. I would say Bard, too, but for my quirky-musician-writer son’s so-so reaction to it when he visited (it felt less well-resourced than other schools he saw, and it dropped off the list), but that’s a sample of one, and many people love it. I would also add Reed, but that’s a very specific fit – it might be right for your daughter, or maybe not. Could be great.

Basically, you need any reason to cross schools off the list at this point. I’m hoping that asking some of the above questions might help you do that. Good luck, and congratulations!

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Congratulations on these acceptances. Has she visited any of these schools? You might have her start by noting why each school was on her list to start with. This list is really disparate. If you were merit hunting, that would make sense.

Then I would drop Wake Forest. It has an unforgiving social dynamic, especially for students not in Greek Life. Easy decision, off the list it goes. Bet it’s expensive too.

Washington and Lee has a very high proportion of students involved in Greek Life, but…there is a house for nearly everyone. Nerds included. A majority of women are in eating houses at Davidson. Denison, Kenyon, William and Mary, Occidental, Emory, and Hamilton have Greek Life but fewer people participate…I expect whether or not one feels greek life dominates the social scene on those campuses varies.

Reed is a fit school more than any other on the list. It has a large proportion of LGBTQ students (well over half), including 22% students identifying as non-binary (along with female = 45%, male =33%). It is academically intense, and has no varsity sports. It has a prevalent drug scene. If that sounds like it might be a fit, definitely visit.

Carleton is on quarters ( I think the only one on your list), is also academically intense partially because of quarter system.

That makes me lean Hamilton and Kenyon.

I also agree with niceunparticularman and shelby that Carleton and William and Mary could be excellent fits, along with Grinnell and Bard.

I’m not sure where she would be traveling from, but some of these schools are harder to get to than others. The relatively more remote schools are Grinnell, Hamilton, Washington and Lee, and Franklin and Marshall.

I don’t want to spend your money. You don’t have to answer here, but if any of the schools would need more loans than the $27K max undergrad federal student loans, or if they would cause parents to put retirement savings on hold, I would hesitate to do that for any of the schools on this list.

Perhaps you and your spouse can each take one side of the coin…asking are any of these schools worth more $ than any other for a humanities major? Then debate and persuade, and see how that goes.

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Hamilton’s open curriculum seems like it could appeal to your dd since she isn’t yet focused on a major. When dd visited it seemed like it was writing intensive across all disciplines, which might also be advantageous to your dd.

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Those (box below) would seem like the best fit, based on what you said.
Based on what you said, you could do a Denison, Kenyon, Grinnell, Carleton loop (especially if you can land in Columbus, drive, depart from the Twin Cities) I think planning 5 days to do that would be doable without too much strain.

After that, Reed, Bard, and W&M are all over the place. I don’t see how you could visit more than 2 of these in the remaining time, especially since she’d need time to recharge batteries. They’re also quite different.
I guess W&M would be a good college to try due to the different location and size in addition to having the right vibe ?
Reed is very intense. It’s far from all other colleges on the list so either she wants that particular vibe… Or not. (There’ll be intensity at all other colleges, just not 24/7 proud of not sleeping type :face_savoring_food:. Exaggerating z bit obvs but you get the idea.)

After each tour ask for one thing she loved and anything that struck her (even if it was raining or the tour guide was terrible etc). Hopefully after the big tour she’ll already have favorites.
See if Admissions can arrange for her to have lunch with a current freshman (&friends) with similar interests. Meet with a few professors in the Humanities, visit the gym (climbing wall to her satisfaction ?), sit in on a class or two, check in with a couple club leaders?
Peruse the college’s publications, what are they talking about? What’s scheduled for the weekend (be on the lookout for D&D game, anime showing,..) and/or ask Student life?

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If I get a vote, Carleton, Kenyon, Reed, Hamilton in that order. Not WFU or W & L.

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Congratulations to your D26 on the awesome results of all her hard work!

My D23 is a double-degree student at Bard Conservatory. Her majors are BM Vocal Performance (Bard Conservatory) and BA Written Arts - Poetry (Bard College). She has loved all of her professors. Bard has an amazing music program (not just limited to the Conservatory) and there’s lots of student-run music and performance opportunities. Have your D26 check out the Hannah Arendt Center for Politics and Humanities. Also have her check out Dinaw Mengestu, author and head of Written Arts at Bard, who is also the new president of PEN America (I met him - he’s so nice). There’s definitely no shortage of nerdy and quirky kids at Bard! Bard also has a rock climbing club that seems pretty impressive (I Googled it).

Feel free to DM with any questions. Good luck!

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Having researched and visited many of these schools - and with our son accepted to several - I would:

Prioritize:
Reed, Kenyon, Grinnell, Bard and Carleton.

Consider:
Occidental, Denison and perhaps Hamilton (has a strong writing program but Greek exists and more traditionally New England preppy in many respects).

Deprioritize:
Emory (Research university with pre-professional culture so not a true LAC and Greek is active)
W&L (Greek life extremely dominant ~80% of students go Greek)
Wake Forest (Greek is present everywhere and student body/culture very conventional)
Davidson (Student body/culture skews more traditional/Southern and Greek is fairly embedded)
Franklin & Marshall (Greek life is fairly prominent and overall vibe is more preppy/pre-professional than humanities-nerdy)
W&M (Public with a larger student body feels very different from the small LAC experience)

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First of all @TheSiliconWarrior here’s to your family for creating a situation where your DD has so many fascinating choices.

The merit scholarships play a significant role here. So many of these schools offer almost an equal amount of prestige as well as providing a top-quality education/writing programs.

From our experience, W&L and Wake are schools take in a lot of boarding school students - some of them play Boarding School Geography off their social media groups and come in knowing this person and that person. Feel free to throw Hamilton into that bucket as well.

We’ve heard amazing things about the English department at William & Mary, would be a strong choice for your DD. Bard, Kenyon and Grinnell as well. Outside of the highest merit scholarships coming from the other schools, those would be my top 4 picks.

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Seems like your daughter has yet to hear from one or more of these schools?

In any case, I’d suggest your daughter take very close looks at Hamilton, Reed and Kenyon, each for different reasons. You will find distinctive attributes at all of them.

Regarding Carleton, it seems to be a go-to suggestion once Dungeons & Dragons has been mentioned. For me, this might be sufficient for a top-four recommendation when considered by the entirety of your daughter’s profile and criteria.

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You can see Bard and Hamilton in one trip, perhaps one day. Bard has an excellent writing program. Very much of a fit place, but very intentional in their approach. For the kids who fit here, they love it! Hamilton is also good for writing but a bit more mainstream (but probably not uncomfortably so.)

Kenyon and Denison can also be seen in one day, with Kenyon more likely being the one that appeals more.

I’d skip Wake and W&L for this student.

This may open up a few others, beyond the 5. Carleton and Grinnell could also both work. I’d guess that if Bard is a no, you can skip Reed.

Emory is bigger and more urban so seems like a bit of an outlier.

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Be tough to see Bard and Hamilton in one day, not guided tours. They are ~160 miles apart or about a 2.5 hour drive.

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Kenyon, Hamilton, Bard

We found it was not necessary to visit schools on the organized accepted student days and actually came to prefer other times for visits. So if there are conflicts among the accepted student days, I would not stress. My kids would attend classes, and we would hang around the dining hall, library, bookstore, and in outside areas to get the “vibe.” Once my son did an overnight.

What geographic area does she prefer? Urban, rural, suburban? Is writing the main focus?

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Agreed. We narrowed it down to three schools, and we could only go to one admitted students’ day. We toured the others.(Yes, my D23 chose the one for which we attended admitted students’ day, but she was leaning that way, anyway. I have no idea what would have happened, though, had we attended another admitted students’ day and just toured the one she ultimately chose.)

If you contact Admissions and tell them you’d love to come to campus because you’re seriously considering the school, but admitted students’ day doesn’t work for your schedule, they might do something for you beyond putting you on the standard tour (you never know).

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I immediately got a Carleton vibe from your post. I would definitely include Carleton in the short-list, especially since she doesn’t mind cold! https://www.carleton.edu/admissions/blog/rock-climbing-at-carleton/

Kenyon isn’t quite as nerdy/quirky but it’s a great school for kids who love to write. Playing Dungeons & Dragons With Your Creative Writing Class « Kenyon Review Blog

W&M came to mind immediately as well. It’s a little larger but still has an LAC vibe, and she may find a larger variety of instrumental ensembles to join (symphony orchestra, wind ensemble, pep band) than some small LAC’s would offer. There’s an active rock-climbing club. Depending how much aid you’re getting from your front-runner private LAC’s, W&M could give you more bang for your buck even at the OOS price.

Emory is also larger; great school, but if full pay, I’m not sure of the value-added over W&M which might even be a better fit.

I agree with others that the more Greek-heavy southern schools sound like less of a fit. And Reed might not be the right flavor of nerdy; she’d really need to visit and try that one on for size, and I don’t know if the odds of a good fit are high enough to put it on the visit list when it’s so far away from the others.

Has she done virtual visits/info sessions? Hopefully this can help with culling the list. Congrats to her on having such great choices!

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I have done it, but you need to be at the first school at 8 and push off at about 11:30.

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Not knowing where you’re coming from and your budget for plane tickets, but you could bucket and end up hitting quite a few. Fly into Columbus and do Denison and Kenyon. Flight into the Twin Cities. You’ll need at least two or three nights but do Carleton and drive down to Grinnell. Yes, it’s a long drive, but they’re both upper Midwest and at least driveable to each other. Same with Bard and Hamilton. Not near one another, but close enough to do in a two night trip.

If she wants to keep any of the southern on the table, a flight into Charlotte would let you do Davidson and Wake in a day. For this student, I’d find a way to hit W&M on spring break or DFAS.

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It might be of interest that your schools under consideration show solid overlap with Reed’s list of 12 core comparison schools, which appear to have been carefully chosen largely for similarity of mission and atmosphere:

  • Carleton College, MN

  • Colorado College, CO

  • Davidson College, NC

  • Grinnell College, IA

  • Hamilton College, NY

  • Haverford College, PA

  • Lewis & Clark College, OR

  • Oberlin College, OH

  • Occidental College, CA

  • Pomona College, CA

  • Swarthmore College, PA

  • Whitman College, WA

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