Chance me for HYP

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Demographics
Asian-American Female, upper-middle class, suburban, competitive public school ranked Top 10 in state

Grades
School doesn’t rank
UW: 3.91/4.0 and W: 4.87/5.0

Freshman year isn’t included in our GPAs but I did get straight As. Semester grades aren’t used for GPA calculation or shown on transcripts, but I’ll probably have 4 A- final grades total on my transcript by the time I ED (2 from last year, 2 from this year).

Test Scores
SAT: 1540 (780 EBRW, 760 Math with 8/5/8 essay) on first try, everyone says not to retake?
Subject Tests:
US History: 790
World History: (taking soon, expecting 800)
Latin: (taking soon, expecting 750+)

Senior Schedule
AP Lit
AP Euro
AP Stat
AP Biology
AP French
Honors Latin 5 (school doesn’t offer AP)
Honors Orchestra

AP Results
My school doesn’t let freshmen and sophomores take APs and juniors still only barely have a way to take more than 2 or 3. I should’ve self-studied more beforehand.

World History: 4 (self-studied) might not send because I can do better history-wise and it looks kinda bad.
Human Geo: 5 (self-studied)
US History: projected 5
BC Calc: (self-studied BC part) projected 3/4, which is an oof. I might have to send since AB will be on my transcript and it looks sus to not have a score. At least I’m not going to major in stem.
Environmental Science: (self-studied) projected 5
Macro: (self-studied) projected 4/5
Micro: (self-studied) projected 4/5

I really don’t want to send too many 4s (I don’t need to since I self-studied and won’t be on my transcript), but I have so few APs compared to people at other schools that I feel like I should anyway. Thoughts?

ECs
(idk how to order in prestige so I just put them semi-randomly. Any suggestions on how to order?)

(Grade 9-present) Violinist in a prestigious youth symphony
I’ve been in the organization since 3rd grade and been in the most elite ensemble there since grade 10.

  • performed in staged operas
  • performed at Bachfest in Germany
  • (Grade 9-10) volunteer musician for the organization’s string instrument program for inner-city kids

(Grade 9-present) Student Government

  • (Grade 10) Treasurer
  • running for Vice Prez (high chance of getting it though)
  • wrote a lot of bills (free feminine hygiene products in bathrooms, homework-free vacations)

(Grade 9-present) Debate Team

  • compete in Public Forum but no significant awards (got octafinals/Top 16 at a low-prestige nat circuit tournament though)
  • have varsity letter
  • have NSDA Degree of Special Distinction
  • applied for co-captain, but still need to wait for results

(Grade 9-present) School’s arts magazine

  • Editor-in-Chief for the coming school year
  • use InDesign and Photoshop and stuff

(Grade 9-present) Geography instructor at a non-profit
It’s for geographic literacy and geo competition coaching.

  • make lesson plans and teach stuff online
  • coached multiple state champions for National Geographic Bee

(Grade 11-present) Intern for city politician

  • work personally with him to plan campaign strat
  • do data analysis for his social media
  • coordinate campaign finances and stalk potential donors on Votebuilder
  • some canvassing

(Grade 11-present) Student representative at city’s School Committee
Attend meetings with superintendent and city mayor.

(Grade 10-present) Volunteer at [redacted Asian language] school

  • TA for kindergarten age kids
  • helped translate school’s website into English
  • getting Presidential Volunteer Bronze

(Grade 11-present) Member of music outreach group (student-run organization/non-profit)

  • did residency at an urban school where I taught violin lessons for free
  • do frequent nursing home concerts

I’m wondering if my ECs are scattered/good enough/spike?

Work Experience
Was an instructor at a debate/public speaking camp last summer.

Awards
I was a state champion for the National Geographic Bee and placed Top 10 at nationals but it was in middle school so it’ll be in Additional Info on my college app.

  • Qualified (Grade 9-present) for US Geography Olympiad Nationals (never placed since I'm pretty bad at their exams)
  • International Geography Bee (iGeo) National Championship Semifinalist
  • iGeo International Championship Gold Medalist, also qualified again to the 2020 competition
  • Accepted to District and all-State Orchestra (Grade 9-present), got officially recommended to all-National Orchestra grade 9 but stupid me didn't audition.
  • National Latin Exam Awards - Gold Medal Grade 9-10, got Silver this year (1 point off from gold cutoff) :(
  • Best Sophomore Essay in school
  • Finalist for Best Junior Essay in school
  • Finalist for creative writing competition in my city (only 14 students chosen)
  • 2nd Degree Black Belt in a martial art (I quit grade 9 so didn't put it in ECs)
  • Miscellaneous awards from writing and translation competitions at [Redacted Asian language] school but idk if it matters I'd like feedback on which ones to put in the Awards section and which ones I need to put in Additional Info for the real Common App.

Recs
English teacher and Latin teacher from school.
Will ask orchestra conductor for additional rec because he conducts the orchestra at [school I’m EDing to that’s one of HYP].

I will send in a music supplement of my violin playing. I am also concertmaster of my school orchestra but idk where to put that.

I’m EDing to one of HYP (not specifying because other info would allow you to find my real identity on the internet).
What are my chances, and what can I improve?

2

-HYP doesn’t have ED
-The A-minuses don’t matter.
-It’s not about prestige of extracurriculars. In general it’s not about prestige. Order them by how big of a time commitment they are.
-Some of the awards you list are kind of meh (like finalist for best Junior essay in school). Don’t include the more meh things. They weigh you application down. This applies to ECs as well.
-I am not sure if any of your ECs really pop. You do seem very involved in your school and community which is good, though. You seem to care about your community. I think admissions officers will appreciate this. Your app also shows good leadership. Paint yourself as someone who cares about her community. I think this can be a good spin to your app.
-You seem likable which is good and will hopefully bode well for your apps. Many posters in the chance forum who ask to be chanced for HYP can come off as grating. You don’t. Hopefully this translates to you app.
-I would bunch similar ECs (e.g. ones where you teach) together. If you list too many things it can become a blur and can look a bit too much like resume padding (intended or not). Bunching like things together makes it easier for admissions officers to understand who you are.
-It may be worth do the SAT II for math. It’s pretty easy to get an 800 on it relative to some other SAT subject tests.
-You don’t need to take the SAT again. If you are confident that you can up your score 40 or 50 points, it wouldn’t hurt either though.
-I am not sure what your chances are for HYP. You omitted a lot (for understandable reasons), and of course we can’t see your essays, your recs, your more recent scores, etc. For this reason it is hard to judge. You seem like a realistic candidate for a top 10 school. I am not sure how realistic HYP is though.

I hope this helps. If you want clarification on anything I said, please let me know.

3

I think that your chances at HYP are certainly no higher than the overall acceptance rate. Your stats are great. Your list of ECs to me looks long, which makes me wonder what you were really focusing on. More importantly, pretty nearly all of their applicants are similar to you in stats and accomplishments.

I would say, apply, but then pay more attention to matches and safeties.

4

You didn’t mention a potential major but from looking at AP/SAT Subject scores I’m assuming that you are planning on a History major. If so that might help since Asians who major in History are unicorns. Although I don’t see any competitions related to History except for the Geography Bee.

Be very careful with discussing the music. Asian violin players are too commonplace and unless you’re a Perlman or Anna-Sophie Mutter, it’s a good but not really eye-popping EC.

5

Thanks for the advice. I’m aware that it’s EA; I just mixed them up while writing. I still have a couple questions and comments:

  • I'm thinking of a political science/foreign relations major - do the activities match up?
  • I'm aware that violin really doesn't help me and I'm definitely not competition-tier but I'm sending in a music supplement at this point as proof that I'm on the stronger side among the numerous Asians who say they've played violin for 10 years or something.
  • What omitted information (other than essays and recs) is preventing an accurate chancing?
  • What stands out the most? Am I really that average compared to others in the Ivy applicant pool?
  • How and what can I improve?

Thanks.

6

Sorry, I don’t know how to use this forum.

@TheSATTeacher
@DadTwoGirls
@Hamurtle

I’d appreciate your advice on my previous post.

7

Hello: you have a wonderful set of grades, scores and ECs. However as I’m sure you realize, the pool within the Asian community is very competitive. Even valedictorians with perfect 1600/36 are rejected routinely from HYP.

You only have one shot for ED. Are you willing to use it on schools like HYP with ultra-low acceptance rate? I don’t see anything from your profile above that would make a HYP admissions officer swoon. Lots of other schools farther down on the totem pole would love to scoop you up in the early round.

Have you thought about an early application to schools in the 8-15 range? You would have a much better shot of success. If you get deferred in the early round, chances for acceptance in RD round drops way way down. In this case you would probably end up at your state flagship/safety school. Just some food for thought.

8

In the early round, I think you would probably have an excellent shot (>50% chance) at:
Northwestern
Emory
Vanderbilt
Cornell (HumEc/CALS/ILR)
Johns Hopkins
NYU
Georgetown

Your chances for HYP and the rest of the ivies are not that great. How many students from your school with your stats have been accepted to HYP in years past? That is a good indicator of how you may do. Do you have access to the Naviance scatterplots?

9

@sgopal2 The [one of HYP] school I’d like to EA to takes 4-5 students from my school every year.

I’m a fair bit above average statwise on Naviance but the average is also absurdly low? There’s some obvious outliers (probably URM/athlete) that may be bringing down the average.

10

OP @sgopal2 answered your question in an earnest, reasoned and informed manner.

I agree that you are an extremely impressive candidate. Unfortunately I also agree that your demographic combined with lack of anything that really sets you apart will likely result in rejections at Ivies at other sub 8% acceptance rate schools.

Apologies for being honest but similar to others I am trying to see you not waste your ED bullet only to then be facing even longer odds RD which could result in you being truly disappointed. Searching through CC you will find numerous profiles such as yours that get deferred then rejected early at HYP, rejected RD at other Ivies plus Gtown, Vandy, Duke, etc RD and extremely upset having to “settle” for a lower tier.

Clearly no one on CC can predict your results (your GC is your best resource given the school specific success you describe) but your determination to get the answer you want to hear is a wellworn path to disappointment.

Lastly, what you can do to improve your chances is limited at this late date. Your ECs to date reflect interest and local recognition but don’t suggest leadership or initiative on a broad or national level. Most students that are successful for HYP from over represented minorities need to stand out within an exceptional set of peers. You need to identify and thrive in some way that is both meaningful to you and relevant to the schools you are applying to. Your application will need to reflect how the educational and communal opportunities of the specific school you apply to will dovetail with your ambitions and experiences to benefit the academic community and society as a whole. Pretty broad, subjective and tough to do given what you describe so far. Not suggesting you haven’t worked hard or that you are anything less than impressive but being honest within the context of HYP.

I wish you well and hope you listen to well informed people that are more familiar with your specific situation.

11

With your grades and test scores, I’d say your chances are better than the avg admit rate for those schools because there are so many lotto cases in the general pool. However, without a major hook and being Asian, HYP will still be a major reach. I’d go ahead and EA though. I don’t think you would give up that much of an advantage ED’ing to a school that is not at the top of your list, especially if finances are an issue.

I think you are wasting a lot of time self studying for AP’s. Schools only expect you to take AP’s for courses you took. Use that time on developing your essays and accomplishing more with your EC’s. I agree with the other comments that you should focus your EC/award list on things that are impactful. A long list tends to dilute stuff they may stand out more. Unless you really are an accomplished violinist and intend to continue your music in college, I would not submit a supplement. There is a larger risk that someone from the music department will say meh vs gaining any positive points from an AO who, if they even listen to it, will consider it above average.

12

With 3 Subject tests, Georgetown might be a more reasonable reach than HYP.

For PoliSci, WashU is pretty good and they are more grades/test score driven.

Quite a few of the Ivy EAs are actually Restrictive Early Action so you will not be able to EA to another school or ED.

Edit-HYP are REA, so you cannot EA/ED to another school if you use your EA for them.

13

If your school sends 4-5 students per year to HYP, thats pretty darn good. There aren’t that many public schools that I know which has that level of success (apart from TJ and Stuyvestant). This does certainly change things a bit.

A few more questions:

What is your class rank? Even if your HS doesn’t report, the colleges can figure out. Are you in the top 1%?
Do you need financial aid?
Is anyone else from your HS applying Early to this HYP school? Any of these have a hook (athlete, URM, donor?)

14

Hey can I PM you, I do geography competitions as well (came top ten in National Geographic Bee last year as well)

15

@sgopal2
I don’t even get to know about percentile, but my GPA is on the higher end for the Harvard accepted cluster on Naviance. My sat is on the lower end of non-outliers which I’m insecure about but they don’t admit off of sat scores so whatever I guess…

Upper middle class and I don’t necessarily need aid but I would qualify for some form of it at HYP for not being megarich.

I know for sure of one other person EAing (child of faculty), and I’m sure a couple others will. I don’t know the exact details of other people’s ecs and extracurriculars so I can’t compare myself with others, so I posted here to see how competitive I was in general.

16

What does your guidance counselor say? He/She will have the best read given your school’s history of placement.

17

What state are you from, if you don’t mind sharing? You should get a rec from a stem teacher for places like HYP. Your most impressive awards will be the national ones, the state, district, even high school ones won’t be considered bad or anything, but you have to assume other applicants will have that for HYP. Your SATs are fine, I wouldn’t retake. How big is your hs class, because 4-5 from a public school to one of HYP is impressive, as others have noted. However if it just matches the actual acceptance rate, i.e. 5 get in out of 100 who apply, that’s pretty typical for HYP.

chance me threads are just tougher these days, asian female is probably the most competitive demographic, esp if you’re from CA, NY et al.

18

@Nocreativity1
Guidance counselor barely had time to talk to non-seniors but I will visit when I have time - only helpful thing I know is that W GPA should be above 4.75 to apply to Ivies, which I meet.

@theloniusmonk
I’d rather not say the state, but it’s a New England one home to one of HYP. I’m not great at stem so not asking for a rec since it would be mediocre. I will definitely prioritize my International and national awards on the Common App.

My class has about 450 students and Naviance says 4-6 of the 40-50 people who apply to the school get in every year.

19

Your school counselor will be able to give you a realistic appraisal. Your stats are what Is usual for HYP etal applicants. Unless you are leaving out some strong hook in those ECs by understating them for privacy reasons, I don’t see you as a strong candidate. These days it takes a very strong hook putting you in a special admissions pool or two smaller hooks to get into these schools. The kid in our school to H who was accepted with a similar profile was known for national debate prowess and had 4 years of Greek and Latin with an interest in Classics Another was a recruited athlete. Still another URM. One was double legacy. I could go on, but you get the gist. Those accepted as pure academic admits were truly sterling in all aspects of academia in a way that doesn’t show in your info.

20

“Sorry, I don’t know how to use this forum.”

I think that you are using the forum appropriately.

“How and what can I improve?”

At this point I think that you are already doing exceptionally well. The problem is that HYP are very hard to get accepted to and very hard to predict.

I think that you should continue to do what you are doing. Focus on the ECs that you are interested in and care about. Keep ahead in your classes. Treat everyone with respect. Apply to HYP, and pay attention to safety and match schools. In the end I think that you will be successful regardless of where you go for your bachelor’s degree.